3 blacks break in, beat kid, 2 shot dead, 3rd black charged w/murder. Race card

[iago]

You people have no value for life, do you?

That's exactly what I was thinking. Personally, I value every life, and assume that every person has some good in them. Nobody deserves to die.

The problem is, when people start taking the opposite stance (like many Americans do, it seems), you'd expect the murder rate to rise. That seems to logically follow, to me, and it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle. Welcome to life.

[CrAz3D]

I dont value life that beat my son into a huge disability...I dont value life that tries to steal my crap and hurt me.
God is supposed to be the forgiving one, not me.

[iago]

That's too bad. Me, I humanize people.

And incidentally, you still believe that there's an all-good God that caused this to happen? (An omnipotent/omniscient God who created the world would know exactly how it would unfold and could control everything that would happen)

[CrAz3D]

I "humanize" people.  I see that they're making a choice that threatens me and I make the logical choice to protect myself.

God gave us free will, what we do is our doing.

[Sidoh]

God gave us free will, what we do is our doing.

Isn't it bad to implicitly answer one of the biggest philosophical questions ever as an argument in your debate?

Plus, I'm under the impression that believing in God implies that free will can't exist.

[CrAz3D]

God gave us free will, what we do is our doing.

Isn't it bad to implicitly answer one of the biggest philosophical questions ever as an argument in your debate?

Plus, I'm under the impression that believing in God implies that free will can't exist.

You're under the wrong impression if you, in general, believe in the Christian God.

It's all about free will.  You choose to accept Christ as the Savior.  You choose to do good or do bad.
http://www.biblelife.org/election.htm#7

[Sidoh]

You're under the wrong impression if you, in general, believe in the Christian God.

It's all about free will.  You choose to accept Christ as the Savior.  You choose to do good or do bad.
http://www.biblelife.org/election.htm#7

I don't.  That's not what I'm getting at, though.  My statement was meant to be much more broad.  I'm under the impression that if you believe in any God who is supposed to be omniscient, it is impossible for free will to exist.  I don't care what the religious texts say.

I'm aware of a few counter arguments to this, but they all seem irrational and hacked together so that the religion doesn't fall apart, like always.

[CrAz3D]

Just because God knows what is happening and what will happen doesn't necessarily mean it won't be your choice.

If I throw my dog's ball near the door I know he'll run into the door in a bit, but that was his choice.

[iago]

Just because God knows what is happening and what will happen doesn't necessarily mean it won't be your choice.

If I throw my dog's ball near the door I know he'll run into the door in a bit, but that was his choice.

God is omnipotent, God created the universe. Therefore, everything that happens was what he intended.

[Sidoh]

Just because God knows what is happening and what will happen doesn't necessarily mean it won't be your choice.

If I throw my dog's ball near the door I know he'll run into the door in a bit, but that was his choice.

Choice is an illusion if the outcome is already known.

That's a bad analogy.  You're not omniscient and you don't know that.  You strongly suspect it based on past experiences.  If you were omniscient, you'd know exactly where the ball will hit and exactly when your dog will go after it.

[Warrior]

I'd fucking shoot every last one of them.

[Joe]

And incidentally, you still believe that there's an all-good God that caused this to happen?

God is generally a character of "Hehe.. that guys doing something dumb and I'll just watch." He's permissive in that kind of way -- he knows it's happening, but unless you ask Him to make it stop, He won't.

[Warrior]

You should just stop while you're ahead.

[iago]

And incidentally, you still believe that there's an all-good God that caused this to happen?

God is generally a character of "Hehe.. that guys doing something dumb and I'll just watch." He's permissive in that kind of way -- he knows it's happening, but unless you ask Him to make it stop, He won't.

Like I said, when he created the universe, he knew exactly what the outcome would be. Omniscient is like that.