Salvia Divinorum!

[Warrior]

I think at this point it becomes a problem with the user and not with the drug itself, most things without moderation are bad. While there are drugs which are genuinely destructive to the body, I believe most of what everyone does here is mild at worst and done for cheap thrills.

Personally, I stick mostly to marijuana and I've yet to try Salvia but I'm definitely open to other things which do no harm (short term or long term) to the body. I don't do it to puff my chest out and say I can, because frankly a bunch of internet people who I'll never meet are not on the top of the "people to impress list" for me.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but that's just how I feel about the drugs that I use in general.

Now in contrast to address Screenor:
The argument that cigs or chewing somehow makes unrestricted drug use fine is a very weak argument. Them being legal is a problem in itself, but it's not a justification for using potentially dangerous drugs.
Cough Syrup is out of the question for me merely because it trades a cheap high for an addiction.

Either way, I think Rule just had a rant to get out and baited this perfectly .

[Warrior]

You know nothing about the subject obviously. You're a biased idiot whos never done a "drug" in his life and has no idea of how they effect the body. Things like weed and cough syrup are hardly bad for the body. Chewing, or even smoking cigs is worse. And more addicting. However they're legal. So your argument of calling me an idiot for using these common drugs just makes you look simple.

Right, because never having done a drug makes it completely harmless/harmful in my life. I've never performed open heart surgery either, but I know that's dangerous and has benefits. Am I a biased idiot for that too?

Not sure if you're just talking DXM, but "harmless" drugs like marijuana are something you'd very much need to experience before casting judgement on how dangerous they are.

That analogy is weak too, open heart surgery is a pretty black and white thing. Drugs is a fairly general category and not everything which falls under it is necessarily dangerous.

[Camel]

There is this ambient "we know much better than the general consensus -- we know what's dangerous and what isn't -- we're smarter than that" attitude; "it's illegal, most people wouldn't want to try, but we know better and that's something we all have in common".  People are generally really attracted this type of anti-establishment group mentality -- especially since it gives them the sensation that they are more intelligent, more informed, and more daring than those outside of the group.  It also encourages those within the group to progress with whatever they are doing -- to be the first to try something new and report back their experiences.

You're taking what I said way to far; I'm not, for example, calling you stupid. What I'm saying is that there isn't really any inherently serious danger in gateway drugs, because anyone with a high school education knows that their brain needs oxygen to function. The stupidity comes in when people try new things without assessing the risks; it's stupid for the same reason that putting your money in to a stock that you know nothing about is stupid.

You seem to have inferred that I was on an ego trip, claiming to be more wise than the average person. As a nerd, I'd like to think that I am more intelligent than the "average person," but even if that is true, it has no bearing on what I said. It does not take great intelligence to know that there are dangers to everything; you wouldn't argue with me if I called someone stupid for crossing the street without looking first, so why shouldn't I call someone stupid for asphyxiating?

[deadly7]

Not sure if you're just talking DXM, but "harmless" drugs like marijuana are something you'd very much need to experience before casting judgement on how dangerous they are.

I never once mentioned marijuana in my posts.

That analogy is weak too, open heart surgery is a pretty black and white thing. Drugs is a fairly general category and not everything which falls under it is necessarily dangerous.

I was reading an article on surgery, so sue me. There are dozens of similar examples if you care to take the time to think them up. I personally would rather read more of "Anthem" so, meh.

[Rule]

Rule, the whippets most of us use require effort to be inhaled, therefore, requiring one to be conscious in order to get more gas. So: If you pass out due to lack of oxygen, you are forced to breathe oxygen. What the wiki article is talking about is using a mask that stays on your mouth and requires no effort to inhale.

Not completely true.  Many people have killed themselves with dust-off or asphyxiation through inhalants that require effort.

I would see salvia as one of the least recreational, and most shamanic/spiritual, drugs available.

That label just seems like rationalisation.  See:

It's probably going to be my "new" pot, when I'm home (and planning on staying home) I'll smoke this, pot will be "on-the-go" type of things, since you can actually somewhat control laughter and limbs with weed lol. 

And:

Hi. 

I finally tried the Salvia yesterday... I know some of you are going to have a hard time to believe this, due to how controlling the drug can be and from articles you might of read... Anyway. I ended up smoking it with three friends, Manny and Mike, Mike took the first hit, because he was excited and about 20 seconds later he said "Wow. I'm soooooo highhhhhhhhhhhhhh" and started to laugh, really... really hard. Manny and I both knew it obviously had a great effect.

Manny and I started to pass the bowl around like you would normally with weed, and we all got really trippin. We shut off the light and we just had my laptop in the center of the room, My laptop was on, but the lid was facing downwards and we all just sat around it like a campfire, and the ironic thing is, that's what I thought it was during my trip, a small warm campfire, we all were just listening to Pink Floyd and then, I just pointed at my friend Manny, while saying "Dude... what the fuck is...", "Dude what the fuck is...th" over and over again, I was trying to say "What the fuck is that" but for some reason I could get the word "that" out.. I was just laughing so hard... but I was wondering what "that" was... (meaning Manny).

To not make this too lengthy, I'll just say, we ended up tripping for around 2-3 hours... (Not just one hit, remember, this was multiple hits).

We ended up passing out (probably from being tired, it was around 2 am.)... I wish I had a video like I promised, maybe next time!

Doesn't "retarded" seem like the right word to use?

And Camel: I was characterizing a group mentality I've been seeing, not exclusively in reference to your post.  I may have a full reply later. 

[warz]

my whole family does these things as a group. then again, i'm a native america, and live in a teepee. i have my spirit journey this up coming week. totally looking forward to it. i'll fill you all in later.

[Warrior]

Not sure if you're just talking DXM, but "harmless" drugs like marijuana are something you'd very much need to experience before casting judgement on how dangerous they are.

I never once mentioned marijuana in my posts.

You also never mentioned any other drug by name until your last post, it's hard to know what you're speaking of.
This ties in with your analogy, it works if you limit it to a specific drug which has a specific consequence.

[Joe]

my whole family does these things as a group. then again, i'm a native america, and live in a teepee. i have my spirit journey this up coming week. totally looking forward to it. i'll fill you all in later.

Haha, I bet you use 56k in your teepee.

[deadly7]

You also never mentioned any other drug by name until your last post, it's hard to know what you're speaking of.

Yeah, but when I quoted a post talking specifically about popping ridiculous amounts of Coricidin (14(?) pills is a lot, unless you weigh as much as a whale does) I assumed people could tie the two together, especially since I ignored the abundance of posts about other drugs.

This ties in with your analogy, it works if you limit it to a specific drug which has a specific consequence.

I realllly don't get what you're talking about with this sentence. Haha. Care to explain?

[Warrior]

Yeah, but when I quoted a post talking specifically about popping ridiculous amounts of Coricidin (14(?) pills is a lot, unless you weigh as much as a whale does) I assumed people could tie the two together, especially since I ignored the abundance of posts about other drugs.

Then again your quote:

Last I checked, being a retard had no correlation with where you got the drug.

made it seem like you agreed with Rule's statement which included every drug.

I realllly don't get what you're talking about with this sentence. Haha. Care to explain?

I was saying, that the analogy you made comparing open heart surgery to drugs is only valid if you talk about a specific drug with a specific consequence, because at that point it was still unclear if you were making a broad statement or not.


edit: fixed fuckin quotes

[trust]

lifes a bitch and then you die so fuck the world and lets get high

[leet_muffin]

Rule, the whippets most of us use require effort to be inhaled, therefore, requiring one to be conscious in order to get more gas. So: If you pass out due to lack of oxygen, you are forced to breathe oxygen. What the wiki article is talking about is using a mask that stays on your mouth and requires no effort to inhale.

Not completely true.  Many people have killed themselves with dust-off or asphyxiation through inhalants that require effort.

Dust-off != nitrous oxide. It contains fluorine and is completely irrelevant to the conversation we were having.

Additionally, if I can do drugs with only very minor harm done to my body, do them responisbly, and experience many things as a result, why does it become anyone's position to lead me against such actions?

Rule, as far as I could tell, this thread was a discussion regarding salvia, the methods of using it, and the experiences gained from it... Not whether or not to do it. Obviously, anyone posting saying that they want to do it wants to do it, and unless you have some form of actual statistic regarding health issues which it creates, or addiction, I don't see why there would be any need to lead someone against it. So far, it seems to me that your main argument is along the lines of "Why do you need to do it?" and my equally unlogical response of "shamanic/spiritual experiences" simply did not satisfy this. I was not trying to persuede you with some sort of "rationalisation," I was trying to explain the fact that most people who try it actually don't enjoy the experience, and, as a result, don't have much urge to repeat the trip.

To answer more thoroughly "Why do you do it?" (Which is a much more applicable question than "Why do you need to do it?"): It is an unclassifiable drug with features of both dissociatives and psychedelics, and therefor puts your mind in a state of temporary confusion, with much amnesia as well. It allows you to very shortly see things in a new light. After doing this, I am usually filled with a certain amount of a feeling of "Why am I doing this" whenever I do anything out of habit (Shaking someone's hand, waving at people, etc). It's a very interesting feeling/thought process, and it is very strange to act purely out of instinct, and note your actions. 

[Rule]

Garbage

I don't have time to fully respond, but here are a few things you should consider.  Dust-off is completely relevant to the discussion of using inhalants.  Please look it up.  Also, don't tell me what this discussion is supposedly about, and don't put words in my mouth and then argue with them.  Someone else brought up whippets, not me.  And don't make me walk you through the wikipedia entry on whippit.  This started with me reading this thread and a few others, and thinking about how many of the forum users have become embarrassingly undignified and increasingly frequent drug users.  You're the one who thinks salvia isn't a recreational drug.  Perhaps you should read this discussion more carefully. 

brb, spiritual enlightenment

[Screenor]

You know nothing about the subject obviously. You're a biased idiot whos never done a "drug" in his life and has no idea of how they effect the body. Things like weed and cough syrup are hardly bad for the body. Chewing, or even smoking cigs is worse. And more addicting. However they're legal. So your argument of calling me an idiot for using these common drugs just makes you look simple.

Right, because never having done a drug makes it completely harmless/harmful in my life. I've never performed open heart surgery either, but I know that's dangerous and has benefits. Am I a biased idiot for that too?
Hahahah. The "legality" argument. You're funny. Apparently you're not too bright either if you're using cigarettes being legal to justify your rampant drug usage. The truth is that the government makes LOTS of money from taxing cigarettes, which is one of the biggest reasons it's still legal and most likely going to stay legal for ages to come.
And, since I doubt you will, I Googled just what happens when you OD on Triple C's for you.. here, two of the first results:
http://www.drugs.com/enc/dextromethorphan-overdose.html
http://www.drugs.com/coricidin.html
Oh, but wait, the government must run these websites that shine negative light on drug usage, furthering my bias, right?

QQ more and go DIAF. You're too stupid to bother talking to.

I know full well the dangers of dexing. It'd be stupid to use something without reading up on the side effects first. You need to take somewhere around 30+ pills to OD on Dex containing products. Idiot.

And on a side note: Marijuana would be legal if they could tax it as well. And it slowly is becoming legal in the U.S. so stfu plz.

[iago]

Additionally, if I can do drugs with only very minor harm done to my body, do them responisbly, and experience many things as a result, why does it become anyone's position to lead me against such actions?

I don't think he was arguing that you shouldn't do it, just that if you do do it, you're stupid for doing it.

I think, at least -- that's sort of how I look at drugs. I don't think they should be illegal, I just think that people who use them are stupid.