Author Topic: A review of "Just how stupid are we"  (Read 2983 times)

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Offline CrAz3D

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A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« on: June 06, 2008, 01:34:24 pm »
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2008/06/05/shenkman/index.html

I want that book.

I think civics tests for voters is an awesome idea.

I know FAR too many people that will not vote for Obama because of his Muslim background.  I won't vote for him because of choices he's made and views he holds.

I know FAR too many people that will not vote for McCain simply because he is a Republican.  I like other people more, but see a rather moderate candidate in John McCain.  I will most likely vote for him because of that.

Offline d&q

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2008, 03:40:34 pm »
Like the article briefly said, I don't think this would ever happen, largely in part of what happened in the Reconstruction era of the US. They placed literary tests as a deterrent for voting, because they needed a way to get around the Fifteenth Amendment. No former slaves would be able to vote because it was illegal to teach slaves to read/write and therefore illegal. White illiterate people got around that due to the grandfather clause, which let all people who had free grandfathers (read: not slaves) vote. Efforts were made to defeat these laws in the various Civil Rights movements, and so there will be large legal and social obstacles if they want to even try it.

tl,dr; civic tests = formerly racist and probably not happening
The writ of the founders must endure.

Offline CrAz3D

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 03:51:47 pm »
tldr?

Anyhow, civic tests NOW would only keep stupid people from voting, not black ones

Offline Rule

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 03:53:20 pm »
Anyhow, civic tests NOW would only keep stupid people from voting, not black ones

You want to be kept from voting?

Offline deadly7

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 03:59:43 pm »
You want to be kept from voting?
Now, now, be kind to him-he can't help that, as a Republican, he's automatically stupid.
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Offline CrAz3D

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 04:25:29 pm »
Anyhow, civic tests NOW would only keep stupid people from voting, not black ones

You want to be kept from voting?

I'm not black ... of course I'd be voting.



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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 05:06:41 pm »
You only think they're racist because you're black shut the fuck up.

Offline Joe

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2008, 10:24:22 am »
I like how the only black person to post on this thread said "formerly racist", and everyone else just said "racist".
I'd personally do as Joe suggests

You might be right about that, Joe.


Offline while1

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2008, 10:56:57 am »
tldr?

Anyhow, civic tests NOW would only keep stupid people from voting, not black ones
In a hypothetical situation, it'd be interesting to see how many of those cannot vote are black because they fail the civic tests.  I'm leaning towards a decent percentage of the black population being amongst these ineligible voters.  I'm not being racist when I say this, I swear.  In fact, I'm pointing out why this will never come to be. 

There's still a big problem with how the black community post-slavery and post-civil rights movement have adapted to their freedoms.  It's not all their fault, but it's not everyone else's fault either.  I think in a hypothetical situation like this, we'd only embarrass ourselves because it would be indicative of the failure of our education system, and the social issues that still plague the black population in this country today.  Bill Cosby is probably my favorite black American because he has the guts to come out and criticize the black community for not doing their part.


EDIT:  tl,dr = too long, didn't read.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 11:07:38 am by Michael »
I tend to edit my topics and replies frequently.

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Offline d&q

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2008, 01:25:53 pm »
Bill Cosby is a senile old fool. Also, don't try to hide your prejudices, you just come off sounding unpersuasive. You hold the notion that a "decent percentage" of the black population is basically stupid, which is based off very persuasive statistics. That's no excuse to stereotype a group though, even though in this case you might not need an excuse.
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Offline leet_muffin

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2008, 01:39:37 pm »
Stupid people don't vote anyway. Well, not in overwhelming proportions.

/thread
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Offline while1

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 01:41:50 pm »
It depends on the civic tests and their "difficulty".

Also you are putting words into my mouth.  On any issue of race, people like to put words into other people's mouth- all sides do it.  It's probably the first thing they do and really hinders having a civil discussion on the matter.  In fact, I did not say those who failed the civic tests were stupid.  Granted, my word choice does gets me in trouble sometimes, but I have never used "stupid" to describe a group.  That's probably far from the truth.  Ignorant is a better word because I do believe blacks have the same ability as whites, asians, hispanics, etc.  There is just a difference in level of formal education.

I do not condone Cosby's methods- you're not going to help coming across as like you said "senile".  But I do respect and understand why he feels the way he does when you look at things such as drop out rates, college enrollment rates, imprisonment rates, pregnancy rates, social attitudes, etc. and the factors causing them.

Seriously, if you want me to put a number to "decent percentage", I'm sorry I can't because again I said it would be an interesting hypothetical.  But I'll give you this:  http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16

This is only for ages 16-24, which does not include people older and younger who dropped out.  However these stats are at least encouraging, even though the gap has closed only a little in the 1990s and 2000s compared to previous decades, it is not increasing.  What's even more interesting is the statistics for Hispanics. 

And I have no right to be a racist if you're implying that I am.  I will NOT say I have no prejudices, as no one is prejudice free.  But being Asian, raised by New England white parents, in a relatively asian-less Southern state (unless you go up to northern VA and DC area), I can say I've had my fair share of race stereotyping and identity issues as a child.

Some of the kindest people and easiest to talk I know are blacks, and when you are willing to go back to work at McDonalds for each year for 5 summers, ignoring the craptacular job and hours, but feel like being called someone's "boo" and other pet names, and staying in contact with your co-workers is better than starting all over again for a couple of bucks more an hour... then I can say I am not someone who is racist.  I am not saying I have experienced and can completely empathize with people different than myself, but I can say I have taken the time to listen to opposing views, listen to other's plights, and ask people different from myself WHY and HOW they feel on sensitive issues such as race.  Maybe not as many as Barack Obama or Hilary Clinton...

As leet_muffin pointed out, this is assuming that people actually go out to vote... which is unrealistic.  But when you think about this election and the black voter turn out, it makes you wonder are we seeing a light at the end of the tunnel? 
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 02:42:09 pm by Michael »
I tend to edit my topics and replies frequently.

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Offline CrAz3D

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Re: A review of "Just how stupid are we"
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2008, 04:14:44 am »
Bill Cosby is a senile old fool. Also, don't try to hide your prejudices, you just come off sounding unpersuasive. You hold the notion that a "decent percentage" of the black population is basically stupid, which is based off very persuasive statistics. That's no excuse to stereotype a group though, even though in this case you might not need an excuse.


Bill Cosby fucking rocks.

Black people CREATE the stereotypes, comedians and others just use it as a generalization.

I generalize that New Orleans sucks ... but that's only because of many of the scummy welfare people that leach off of the system.