EPIC title: (Bill) Clinton urges monogamy...

[CrAz3D]

http://www.thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/414572

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[deadly7]

Quit being stupid. Either post legit topics, or I'll just throw them in the trash. Your one and only warning.

For everybody else that's curious, the title of the article is: "Clinton urges monogamy Health services key to AIDS fight", slightly different from "Clinton urges monogamy"

[Newby]

Marriage is a failed institution. I'd like to believe it works just because I'm a romantic in this sense, but with the rate of cheating spouses and divorces as high as everyone makes it seem (I don't think I have more than a half-dozen friends with married parents still) I'm pretty much being optimistic. :/

Stupid title. They even mention the hypocritical nature of his request in the first paragraph. It wasn't funny.

While he's at it, drug addicts should stop sharing needles?

[dark_drake]

While he's at it, drug addicts should stop sharing needles?

Are you against recycling? Is that it?

[deadly7]

Topic moved to somewhere more appropriate: General.

[iago]

Marriage is a failed institution. I'd like to believe it works just because I'm a romantic in this sense, but with the rate of cheating spouses and divorces as high as everyone makes it seem (I don't think I have more than a half-dozen friends with married parents still) I'm pretty much being optimistic. :/

Marriage is a scam. People just don't work/think like that, and I think one of the biggest problems in the world is that people try and see it that way.

[CrAz3D]

Quit being stupid. Either post legit topics, or I'll just throw them in the trash. Your one and only warning.

For everybody else that's curious, the title of the article is: "Clinton urges monogamy Health services key to AIDS fight", slightly different from "Clinton urges monogamy"

Dont be a cunt.  It's funny and you know it.

[Explicit]

Quit being stupid. Either post legit topics, or I'll just throw them in the trash. Your one and only warning.

For everybody else that's curious, the title of the article is: "Clinton urges monogamy Health services key to AIDS fight", slightly different from "Clinton urges monogamy"

Dont be a cunt.  It's funny and you know it.

Troll.

[Ender]

Marriage is a failed institution. I'd like to believe it works just because I'm a romantic in this sense, but with the rate of cheating spouses and divorces as high as everyone makes it seem (I don't think I have more than a half-dozen friends with married parents still) I'm pretty much being optimistic. :/

Marriage is a scam. People just don't work/think like that, and I think one of the biggest problems in the world is that people try and see it that way.

How would you propose to structure families without marriage?

I think it works for some, doesn't work for others. But I don't think it's against human nature, as seems to be implied in the above quotes. Hundreds of different cultures for thousands of years have practiced marriage, so if anything I'd say it's more a trait of human nature.

[while1]

Marriage is a failed institution. I'd like to believe it works just because I'm a romantic in this sense, but with the rate of cheating spouses and divorces as high as everyone makes it seem (I don't think I have more than a half-dozen friends with married parents still) I'm pretty much being optimistic. :/

Marriage is a scam. People just don't work/think like that, and I think one of the biggest problems in the world is that people try and see it that way.

You seriously believe this?  Probably the first and stupidest thing I've ever heard iago type...

My parents have been happily married for 20+ years.  My grandparents were happily married for longer than that until my grandpa died.  Many people have been married happily "till death do them part".

Marriage is not the problem.  People who get married for all the wrong reasons, prematurely get married, etc. are the problem.  They're scamming themselves, marriage is not.

[rabbit]

There's not a divorce in my family, including most of my extended family.

[Joe]

My parents are still married, and my mom's sister (aunt) is still married to her first husband, and they have two kids.

My dad was married before he met my mom, and he had his first marriage annulled. I'm not sure if my mom meant divorced or not, I never bothered asking for details. That'd come up as "I want to meet this lady that could have been my mom if you didn't step in" and would be just weird.

My mom has two brothers, one has two kids in his second marriage (none in first), and the other has one kid with his non-married "life partner".

So, analyzing this, only half of the four siblings have had kids in their first marriage and stayed in it, one married a guy who had been married previously, one got divorced and remarried, and one had a kid without getting married.

[iago]

You seriously believe this?  Probably the first and stupidest thing I've ever heard iago type...

My parents have been happily married for 20+ years.  My grandparents were happily married for longer than that until my grandpa died.  Many people have been married happily "till death do them part".

Marriage is not the problem.  People who get married for all the wrong reasons, prematurely get married, etc. are the problem.  They're scamming themselves, marriage is not.

Then you don't read enough of my posts, because I've said this before.

I categorize marriage in the same place as religion -- something that's been around for so long that we consider it natural, but that, if somebody outside looked in, unbiased by being brought up differently, would think it was completely insane.

[while1]

Huh, so?  You're pretty much describing almost everything about human society today.  All of our laws, morals, etc.  Your argument is based off relativity, and mostly everything is relative besides our primal instinct to survive.

[Explicit]

Huh, so?  You're pretty much describing almost everything about human society today.  All of our laws, morals, etc.  Your argument is based off relativity, and mostly everything is relative besides our primal instinct to survive.

Marriage has nothing to do with the male instinct to survive -- sex does (i.e. reproduction). Only through marriage can it be viewed as socially acceptable since monogamy is what society strives to uphold.

[Edit] To build on what iago was saying, marriage only gets in the way of passing on our genes to any and everyone we can. I'm not saying that it's a big nono for people who place significant value in it, but realistically, that's how it's always been.

[iago]

Huh, so?  You're pretty much describing almost everything about human society today.  All of our laws, morals, etc.  Your argument is based off relativity, and mostly everything is relative besides our primal instinct to survive.

No, I think that morals can come about from logic reasoning, and (good) laws are based off morals. Morals can be derived from first principals, and a lot of philosophers have done just that.

But yes, I do think that a lot of stuff about human society is deeply flawed. I'm surprised you haven't noticed that from my various posts.

[CrAz3D]

Huh, so?  You're pretty much describing almost everything about human society today.  All of our laws, morals, etc.  Your argument is based off relativity, and mostly everything is relative besides our primal instinct to survive.

iago's just trying to justify his loneliness, let him be.

[Rule]

All of this anecdotal support for marriage is really stupid.  The fact is that about 55% of Americans end up divorced.  It makes no difference in this discussion whether someone's aunt has been (happily) married for 20 years.

Joe: as far as I understand, annulment (usually) means that the church, (after being sufficiently bribed), retroactively declares the marriage to never have existed (to get around the 'no-divorce rule').  There are grounds for annulment, but basically the church will search for some rationalisation if you pay them enough cash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulled

[dark_drake]

All of this anecdotal support for marriage is really stupid.  The fact is that about 55% of Americans end up divorced.  It makes no difference in this discussion whether someone's aunt has been (happily) married for 20 years.

"The plural of anecdote is not data." 

[CrAz3D]

All of this anecdotal support for marriage is really stupid.  The fact is that about 55% of Americans end up divorced.  It makes no difference in this discussion whether someone's aunt has been (happily) married for 20 years.

Way to use mythical numbers to try to rationalize your point Rule!  Also, great job at being a hypocrite.

http://www.divorcerate.org/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-18-cohabit-divorce_x.htm

[Ender]

CrAz3d, do you realize that you just posted contradictory sources?

The U.S. divorce rate is 17.7 per 1,000 married women

The Americans for Divorce Reform estimates that "Probably, 40 or possibly even 50 percent of marriages will end in divorce if current trends continue."

So we see that USA Today states that the divorce rate is 1.77% (wtf?! typo?) and divorcerate.org says that it is between 40% and 50%.

[Newby]

CrAz3d, do you realize that you just posted contradictory sources?

That would require reading what he actually posts.

I think it's funny one of his sources actually supported Rule...

[CrAz3D]

Where did I say that mine were correct?  I just said his were mythical and posted two sources contradicting HIS numbers.  I wasn't trying to prove any divorce rate, I was just trying to prove him wrong.

[Newby]

Where did I say that mine were correct?  I just said his were mythical and posted two sources contradicting HIS numbers.  I wasn't trying to prove any divorce rate, I was just trying to prove him wrong.

Except you didn't contradict his sources, and you did two things bad for yourself:

• One of your sources basically supported his source (50 and 55 are close in percentage), and
• You proved sources can vary, so that his 55% could actually be a legitimate estimation from some other source, so you failed to prove him wrong.

Here's a source that says first-rate marriage divorce rate is 55%: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=667688

The divorce rate for first time marriages is 55%, the divorce rate for 2nd marriages is 75%.
Those rates clearly show people cannot stand one another and will not tolerate nonsense from anyone, be it husband or wife.

[Newby]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26095810?GT1=43001

More proof that I honestly do believe marriage is a failure.

Former Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards on Friday admitted to an extramarital affair while his wife was battling cancer.

While his wife is battling cancer? Marriage vows usually say "until death do us part" and not "until the threat of death do us part" and this man was going to represent the country? My adulterous mother split my family apart, so maybe I just generally dislike adultery, but this man is pretty much walking scum. And not because he's a Democrat.

[CrAz3D]

Maybe just among liberal/progressive people?

[Newby]

My mom is a conservative Republican. I was cracking a joke about the Democrat part.

[Rule]

Maybe just among liberal/progressive people?

Yeah, Ted Haggard, Nixon, and others, are shining examples of ethical people.

Newby:  As weird as it seems, I think betraying your spouse when he/she is in a time of crisis is pretty common :\.  I have an acquaintance who got cancer -- shortly after his wife left him.

[Newby]

betraying your spouse when he/she is in a time of crisis is pretty common :\. 

It's still scummy.