Author Topic: Why McDonald's fries taste so good  (Read 5347 times)

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Offline iago

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Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« on: November 22, 2008, 08:46:01 pm »
This is a story about artificial flavours for products:
http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm

It's interesting that many manufactured/processed foods have no real flavour of their own, and all the flavour comes from the added chemicals. I try my best to eat unprocessed/organic food, when possible, to avoid this stuff, but even those aren't immune.

This is one thing that pisses me off as a vegan:
Quote
The federal Food and Drug Administration does not require companies to disclose the ingredients of their color or flavor additives so long as all the chemicals in them are considered by the agency to be GRAS ("generally recognized as safe").
What it basically means is that anything with "natural flavour" or "artificial flavour" on the list of ingredients may not be vegan (or vegetarian).

And this is kind of an eye opener:
Quote
A typical artificial strawberry flavor, like the kind found in a Burger King strawberry milk shake, contains the following ingredients: amyl acetate, amyl butyrate, amyl valerate, anethol, anisyl formate, benzyl acetate, benzyl isobutyrate, butyric acid, cinnamyl isobutyrate, cinnamyl valerate, cognac essential oil, diacetyl, dipropyl ketone, ethyl acetate, ethyl amyl ketone, ethyl butyrate, ethyl cinnamate, ethyl heptanoate, ethyl heptylate, ethyl lactate, ethyl methylphenylglycidate, ethyl nitrate, ethyl propionate, ethyl valerate, heliotropin, hydroxyphenyl-2-butanone (10 percent solution in alcohol), a-ionone, isobutyl anthranilate, isobutyl butyrate, lemon essential oil, maltol, 4-methylacetophenone, methyl anthranilate, methyl benzoate, methyl cinnamate, methyl heptine carbonate, methyl naphthyl ketone, methyl salicylate, mint essential oil, neroli essential oil, nerolin, neryl isobutyrate, orris butter, phenethyl alcohol, rose, rum ether, g-undecalactone, vanillin, and solvent.

The distinction between a "natural flavour" and a "artificial flavour" is discussed, as well:
Quote
"A natural flavor," says Terry Acree, a professor of food science at Cornell University, "is a flavor that's been derived with an out-of-date technology." Natural flavors and artificial flavors sometimes contain exactly the same chemicals, produced through different methods. Amyl acetate, for example, provides the dominant note of banana flavor. When it is distilled from bananas with a solvent, amyl acetate is a natural flavor. When it is produced by mixing vinegar with amyl alcohol and adding sulfuric acid as a catalyst, amyl acetate is an artificial flavor. Either way it smells and tastes the same.

Toward the end, they present the whole thing in a very positive light, talking about how the different combinations of flavours is very poetic, and it's almost like composing music: the flavours need to be combined to have a strong "high note" with an undertone and a levelling off. A funny way of thinking about it, really.

Oh, and here's a pleasant thought:
Quote
In France, for example, fries are sometimes cooked in duck fat or horse tallow.
And in the US, there is an unnamed animal source in their french fries as well.

Not to mention:
Quote
One of the most widely used color additives -- whose presence is often hidden by the phrase "color added" -- violates a number of religious dietary restrictions, may cause allergic reactions in susceptible people, and comes from an unusual source. Cochineal extract (also known as carmine or carminic acid) is made from the desiccated bodies of female Dactylopius coccus Costa, a small insect harvested mainly in Peru and the Canary Islands.

Anyway, it's a really interesting (and somewhat scary) article. :)

Offline CrAz3D

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2008, 09:25:32 pm »
DRTFA...


They taste good???

Offline iago

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2008, 09:40:49 pm »
DRTFA...


They taste good???
The article actually has very little to do with McDonalds fries (as you can probably tell by my excerpts)

Offline d&q

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 05:54:01 am »
I agree with you about the disclosure--we should know exactly what's in our food. However, I've always thought it was bullshit how they differentiate between artificial and natural flavorings. Like the example you quoted:

Quote
"A natural flavor," says Terry Acree, a professor of food science at Cornell University, "is a flavor that's been derived with an out-of-date technology." Natural flavors and artificial flavors sometimes contain exactly the same chemicals, produced through different methods. Amyl acetate, for example, provides the dominant note of banana flavor. When it is distilled from bananas with a solvent, amyl acetate is a natural flavor. When it is produced by mixing vinegar with amyl alcohol and adding sulfuric acid as a catalyst, amyl acetate is an artificial flavor. Either way it smells and tastes the same.

In the end they contain the exact same thing. There's a large price difference between organic and artificial flavorings at the supermarket were I usually shop, and it pisses me off that we're basically scamming people into buying things $2+ expensive without any chemically significant difference. There's also a price discrepancy between acetic acid and vinegar! Wtf?
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Offline iago

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2008, 08:22:12 am »
In the end they contain the exact same thing. There's a large price difference between organic and artificial flavorings at the supermarket were I usually shop, and it pisses me off that we're basically scamming people into buying things $2+ expensive without any chemically significant difference. There's also a price discrepancy between acetic acid and vinegar! Wtf?
My thought about that is that there may still be differences:
* Impurities/contaminants
* Isomers
* Concentrations

So maybe it does make a difference. Can't say for sure, though.

Offline Camel

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 12:23:14 pm »
Right; the active ingredient in vinegar is acetic acid. It needn't be pure. As with most things, the FDA probably has some definition of what the purity has to be to be called vinegar, but the bottle need not disclose that so long as it meets the definition the FDA set. If you were to buy acetic acid, it would most likely have to specify on the bottle how pure it is.

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Offline dark_drake

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 02:42:32 pm »
I heard that years ago McDonald's used to use some beef fat to cook their fries, and that's why they were delicious.
errr... something like that...

Offline Camel

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 02:57:37 pm »
I heard that years ago McDonald's used to use some beef fat to cook their fries, and that's why they were delicious.
That does sound pretty delicious. I think bacon fat would be even better, though.

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Offline iago

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2008, 03:35:23 pm »
I heard that years ago McDonald's used to use some beef fat to cook their fries, and that's why they were delicious.
That's in like the first couple paragraphs of that story.

They used to use beef tallow, but don't anymore; however, what they do use is pure oil with artificial flavour that involves "ingredients from an animal source".

In some parts of the world, horse is used; it is unknown what McDonalds uses.

Offline dark_drake

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2008, 04:10:04 pm »
That's in like the first couple paragraphs of that story.

They used to use beef tallow, but don't anymore; however, what they do use is pure oil with artificial flavour that involves "ingredients from an animal source".

In some parts of the world, horse is used; it is unknown what McDonalds uses.
I didn't read your meat-bashing article.  :P
errr... something like that...

Offline Sidoh

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2008, 04:12:33 pm »
In some parts of the world, horse is used; it is unknown what McDonalds uses.

Soylent Green. :O

Offline iago

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2008, 04:28:09 pm »
That's in like the first couple paragraphs of that story.

They used to use beef tallow, but don't anymore; however, what they do use is pure oil with artificial flavour that involves "ingredients from an animal source".

In some parts of the world, horse is used; it is unknown what McDonalds uses.
I didn't read your meat-bashing article.  :P
It's not meat-bashing in the least.

Offline dark_drake

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2008, 04:54:13 pm »
It's not meat-bashing in the least.
That's exactly what a meat-basher would say to lure me into a trap.
errr... something like that...

Offline d&q

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2008, 12:10:45 am »
In the end they contain the exact same thing. There's a large price difference between organic and artificial flavorings at the supermarket were I usually shop, and it pisses me off that we're basically scamming people into buying things $2+ expensive without any chemically significant difference. There's also a price discrepancy between acetic acid and vinegar! Wtf?
My thought about that is that there may still be differences:
* Impurities/contaminants
* Isomers
* Concentrations

So maybe it does make a difference. Can't say for sure, though.


I'm not too knowledgeable about organic products, but I definitely remember seeing some products being advertised as organic although they were from concentrate. On that note, what are the problems with food being from concentrate?

From what I remember, isomers are only a problem in hydrogenation of fats, because that leads to trans-fat, which is said to be unhealthy. I think that problem is pretty much addressed however, since every product ever now advertises "0% trans fat". As far as racemic mixtures go, I seriously don't think there are any in the food industry, but I cannot be certain.

Right; the active ingredient in vinegar is acetic acid. It needn't be pure. As with most things, the FDA probably has some definition of what the purity has to be to be called vinegar, but the bottle need not disclose that so long as it meets the definition the FDA set. If you were to buy acetic acid, it would most likely have to specify on the bottle how pure it is.

With that statement, are you implying that acetic acid is more expensive because it has a higher standard of purity? If so, I should explain that where I live, vinegar is more expensive than acetic acid. No clue why.
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Offline Camel

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Re: Why McDonald's fries taste so good
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2008, 01:41:08 am »
Trans-fats were outlawed from grocercy stores here. In New York, restaurants can't cook with products that contain trans fats.

With that statement, are you implying that acetic acid is more expensive because it has a higher standard of purity? If so, I should explain that where I live, vinegar is more expensive than acetic acid. No clue why.

No - I'm saying that the FDA defines a range of purities that acetic acid must be in for it to legally be called "vinegar." If it's out of that range, it's not vinegar - even if it is to you and me.

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