Member Forums > Ender's Book Club
Freedom of Speech
Ender:
--- Quote from: Armin on March 18, 2009, 08:11:34 pm ---Thankfully I only posted this for myself. Otherwise, I might have to read this unreasonably long post. Please: use word efficiency.
--- End quote ---
MM, I predicted you would make a childish response like this. You state your propositions conditionally -- for instance, "this could be considered beneficial" -- thus removing your ownership of the proposition. This way, when you get proven wrong, just as I proved you wrong, you can disown your proposition and say "I never said that! I'm not wrong!" This is just another example of you doing this. But this time I preempted your disownership of the proposition, by predicting it, so instead you gave a "tl;dr". I actually predicted in my mind, after making my post, that you would do that. Your method of argument is incredibly dishonest and juvenile.
Ender:
--- Quote from: Armin on March 18, 2009, 08:35:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ender on March 18, 2009, 08:16:58 pm ---MM, I predicted you would make a childish response like this.
--- End quote ---
Congratulations?
--- Quote from: Ender on March 18, 2009, 08:16:58 pm ---You state your propositions conditionally -- for instance, "this could be considered beneficial" -- thus removing your ownership of the proposition. This way, when you get proven wrong, just as I proved you wrong, you can disown your proposition and say "I never said that! I'm not wrong!" This is just another example of you doing this. But this time I preempted your disownership of the proposition, by predicting it, so instead you gave a "tl;dr". I actually predicted in my mind, after making my post, that you would do that. Your method of argument is incredibly dishonest and juvenile.
--- End quote ---
Or, I have responsibilities that take priority over lengthy, fruitless internet debates.
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lol, usually you resort to the more graceful ways of being a coward. however here you are so stumped for measures to take that you resort to contradicting your own principles!
Ender:
--- Quote from: Blaze on March 18, 2009, 09:10:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ender on March 18, 2009, 09:02:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: Armin on March 18, 2009, 08:35:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ender on March 18, 2009, 08:16:58 pm ---MM, I predicted you would make a childish response like this.
--- End quote ---
Congratulations?
--- Quote from: Ender on March 18, 2009, 08:16:58 pm ---You state your propositions conditionally -- for instance, "this could be considered beneficial" -- thus removing your ownership of the proposition. This way, when you get proven wrong, just as I proved you wrong, you can disown your proposition and say "I never said that! I'm not wrong!" This is just another example of you doing this. But this time I preempted your disownership of the proposition, by predicting it, so instead you gave a "tl;dr". I actually predicted in my mind, after making my post, that you would do that. Your method of argument is incredibly dishonest and juvenile.
--- End quote ---
Or, I have responsibilities that take priority over lengthy, fruitless internet debates.
--- End quote ---
lol, usually you resort to the more graceful ways of being a coward. however here you are so stumped for measures to take that you resort to contradicting your own principles!
--- End quote ---
And you usually use big words to sound smart, but quite often act like an idiot! Oh wait, that's the same as you're doing here.
--- End quote ---
Actually you're completely wrong, and oftentimes all I notice from you are empty witticisms, devoid of meaning, meant only to reassert, ceremoniously, the wit that is Blaze[x86].
By the way, this is how I normally write. I have written 35 pages' worth of essays in the past five days (constituting three essays), and that is how I write in them too. Maybe I just read a lot, and have a good vocabulary? It's funny how you support MM by giving yet another conspiracy theory -- that everything I write on this forum is unnaturally verbose for the effect of undermining other people. Yeah, why don't you two just go to a conspiracy theory convention?
Ender:
Blaze, I am sorry for being harsh, but you stepped into the lion's den.
Ender:
... for a continuation of the discussion between Sidoh and myself in a more impartial environment.
Question for consideration (and background): John Stuart Mill, a preeminent 19th-century British philosopher, seems to think that freedom of speech is necessarily progressive. He thinks that true and false statements collide to reinforce the true statement, and to even empower the true statement in the aspect of Durkheimian ceremony. However, Matthew Arnold, a contemporary of Mill's, argues that freedom is not an end in itself, and cannot be justified as such. Instead, there needs to be a strong culture that guides freedom of speech and its subjects toward social progress. For instance, Mill thinks of progress as intellectual and moral achievement. Arnold says that the intellectual and moral need to be emphasized by culture; Mill thinks they will arise on their own out of liberty.
Do you think freedom of speech is an end in its own, or rather, a means to an end, that end being social progress? Do you think that we need a strong culture to guide this freedom, and its subjects, toward social progress? In light of this, what do you think of today's culture, both in its own right and compared to past cultures? Does it play its proper role in guiding freedom of speech?
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