Is your chocolate harvested by child slaves?

[iago]

Answer: probably.

http://www.foodrevolution.org/slavery_chocolate.htm

That's a bit out of date, but according to my research the planned elimination of child slavery by 2005 wasn't met, so it was extended to 2008. That wasn't met either, so it was extended further out.

This sort of goes with a thread I posted about a Chinese guy committing suicide, in that the prices we pay for things are totally unrealistic, and greatly depend on the abuse of other cultures.

As for companies that most likely support child slavery by buying their cocoa from suppliers that use child slaves:

The $13 billion U.S. chocolate industry is heavily dominated by just two firms - Hershey's and M&M Mars - who control two-thirds of the market. Unfortunately, both of these companies fall into the category of those companies who use large amounts of Ivory Coast cocoa, and whose products are almost certainly produced in part by slavery.

[...]

M&M Mars and Hershey Foods Corp. are not alone. Other companies whose chocolate is almost certainly tainted with child slavery include: ADM Cocoa, Ben & Jerry's, Cadbury Ltd., Chocolates by Bernard Callebaut, Fowler's Chocolate, Godiva, Guittard Chocolate Company, Kraft, Nestle, See's Candies, The Chocolate Vault, and Toblerone. While most of these companies have issued condemnations of slavery, and expressed a great deal of moral outrage that it exists in the industry, they each have acknowledged that they use Ivory Coast cocoa and so have no grounds to ensure consumers that their products are slavery-free.

Companies like Mars, Hershey, and Nestle often say that there is no way they can control the labor practices of their suppliers. But there are other chocolate companies who manage to do so, and it would seem that if the bigger companies really wanted to reform problems in the supply chain, they have the power and ability to do so.

There are in fact many chocolate companies who only use cocoa that has definitively not been produced with slave labor. These companies include Clif Bar, Cloud Nine, Dagoba Organic Chocolate, Denman Island Chocolate, Gardners Candies, Green and Black's, Kailua Candy Company, Koppers Chocolate, L.A. Burdick Chocolates, Montezuma's Chocolates, Newman's Own Organics, Omanhene Cocoa Bean Company, Rapunzel Pure Organics, and The Endangered Species Chocolate Company.

Personally, when I do eat chocolate (which is rare), I'll buy Fair Trade. It's significantly more expensive ($4 - $5 for a bar), but it's worth it in my mind. They talk about Fair Trade in that story, too.

[warz]

I hope mine is.

[Newby]

I hope mine is.

Their sweat, blood and tears only add to the rich flavor.

[iago]

If you guys are joking, it's in incredibly bad taste (no pun intended) -- we're talking 10-12 year olds who spend their entire lives being beaten within an inch of their lives and who never get to see their families.

These children, usually 12-to-14-years-old but sometimes younger, are forced to do hard manual labor 80 to 100 hours a week. They are paid nothing, are barely fed, are beaten regularly, and are often viciously beaten if they try to escape. Most will never see their families again.

There's absolutely nothing funny about that.

[warz]

That's just the extra ingredient of love. And, you can't spend your entire life being a 10-12 year old. You'll eventually hit 13.

[while1]

I don't have much of a sweet tooth, I couldn't care less at the end of the day.  As long as I don't have to see it or know about it.  I mean sure, I read the story and I think to myself "How terrible" but at the end of the day when I'm out buying shit, it's not like I'm going to go way out of my way to try and buy this "Fair Trade" or w/e shit you talk about.  It's the price they pay for living in a developing nation.  Hey, even America had abuse of child labor and slavery in it's history.  I'm a self-centered selfish bastard who doesn't care about shit unless it directly (and to an extent indirectly) impacts my life, I admit it.

You're such a carebear iago.  I'm kind of glad people like you exist to do my share of caring about such things .

[Rule]

I don't have much of a sweet tooth, I couldn't care less at the end of the day.  As long as I don't have to see it or know about it.  I mean sure, I read the story and I think to myself "How terrible" but at the end of the day when I'm out buying shit, it's not like I'm going to go way out of my way to try and buy this "Fair Trade" or w/e shit you talk about.  It's the price they pay for living in a developing nation.  Hey, even America had abuse of child labor and slavery in it's history.  I'm a self-centered selfish bastard who doesn't care about shit unless it directly (and to an extent indirectly) impacts my life, I admit it.

You're such a carebear iago.  I'm kind of glad people like you exist to do my share of caring about such things .

Between this, and other posts, I think you need an empathy chip.

Sure, almost everyone is a hypocrite, myself included, but at least we are hypocrites! (e.g. at least we care, to some extent).

When you say it's the "price they pay for living in a developing nation", you make it sound as though they have a choice.  It's also similar to saying when a woman is raped, it is the price she pays for being attractive to the rapist.

[while1]

I have a mild case of aspergers.  It explains a lot of my social ineptness and why I have to work so hard to empathize.

[iago]

As I said in another related post, the word "sociopath" comes to mind.

[disco]

That's just the extra ingredient of love. And, you can't spend your entire life being a 10-12 year old. You'll eventually hit 13.

Then it's time to start thinking about your career as a child soldier!

[dark_drake]

Bu... bu... but I thought Cadbury Cream Eggs were laid by magical rabbits?

[Sidoh]

I hope mine is.

^-- this is what i was going to post.  thank you, sir.

[Furious]

/shrug

Bad things happen everywhere all the time.  It doesn't directly affect us and I don't intend to make it affect me.  If you're worried about the treatment of children in 3rd world countries, buying an expensive chocolate bar isn't the way to help the problem.

[Quik]

This thread is hilarious and rather sad..

[iago]

/shrug

Bad things happen everywhere all the time.  It doesn't directly affect us and I don't intend to make it affect me.  If you're worried about the treatment of children in 3rd world countries, buying an expensive chocolate bar isn't the way to help the problem.

I absolutely disagree. The torture of people, no matter where they live is bad, and the first step to changing things is to recognize the problem exists, and avoid supporting it. I really don't understand how people can ignore or make fun of the problen so easily -- is an absolutely horrible thing.

[while1]

/shrug

Bad things happen everywhere all the time.  It doesn't directly affect us and I don't intend to make it affect me.  If you're worried about the treatment of children in 3rd world countries, buying an expensive chocolate bar isn't the way to help the problem.

I absolutely disagree. The torture of people, no matter where they live is bad, and the first step to changing things is to recognize the problem exists, and avoid supporting it. I really don't understand how people can ignore or make fun of the problen so easily -- is an absolutely horrible thing.

[Furious]

Do you make your own clothes and grow your own food?  Or do you just disagree with things that make the news recently?

[iago]

Do you make your own clothes and grow your own food? 

I buy food from local people who directly get the money, whenever I can. Or from companies that support fair wages and treat their employees properly. Naturally I don't do it 100% of the time, but I do it whenever possible. Generally, I support small and local stores/companies/farmers/bands/actors/etc whenever I am able.

Clothes, I haven't bought new clothes in a long time, so we'll talk when I do.

I don't think it's possible, in our world, to be 100% perfect in these matters. It's like a story I posted awhile back suggesting that people go one day/week without eating meat (something about, if every person ate the equivalent of 1 less hamburger each week, the reduced pollution would be the equivalent of taking every SUV off the streets) -- you don't have to take things to the extreme to make a difference. Take small steps, and try to help.

Or do you just disagree with things that make the news recently?

I'm guessing you didn't read the article -- it's nearly a decade old.

This is something I've believed in for awhile. I've made a conscious effort to lead a cruelty free lifestyle, whether it's animals or people, for the last 2-3 years. I'm not 100% perfect, of course, nobody is -- but I do my best to make a difference.


Also, for what it's worth, I do my best not to pressure people to think like me. Rather, I try to share the facts, and let people do their own thing. But really, when people make fun of something like 10-year olds living slavery and being beaten, it pisses me off. I mean, it's one thing to ignore the facts or accept that you're supporting people;s/animals' suffering, there's nothing I can do about that and I'm not going to try, but it's another thing to make fun of child slaves.

[warz]

You should not be eating chocolate. It's fatening. There's child slaves who are skinny as tooth picks out there, you know?

[Sidoh]

hahahah

[Lead]

iago you have a point and your right none of us are 100% perfect but, if someone told you that all vegetables on the earth (exaggeration) were plucked by hands of 6 year old Chinese gold / vegetable farmers, would you stop eating vegetables? I understand the point you are trying to make but as stated before all we can do is look down on it with grimace and suck it up. They have us by the balls

[iago]

You should not be eating chocolate. It's fatening. There's child slaves who are skinny as tooth picks out there, you know?

You're right, people eat way too much chocolate. The reason is because it's dangerously cheap. We came right back around.

iago you have a point and your right none of us are 100% perfect but, if someone told you that all vegetables on the earth (exaggeration) were plucked by hands of 6 year old Chinese gold / vegetable farmers, would you stop eating vegetables? I understand the point you are trying to make but as stated before all we can do is look down on it with grimace and suck it up. They have us by the balls

If all vegetables were plucked by child slaves, I'd start growing my own vegetables.

[Lead]

You should not be eating chocolate. It's fatening. There's child slaves who are skinny as tooth picks out there, you know?

You're right, people eat way too much chocolate. The reason is because it's dangerously cheap. We came right back around.

iago you have a point and your right none of us are 100% perfect but, if someone told you that all vegetables on the earth (exaggeration) were plucked by hands of 6 year old Chinese gold / vegetable farmers, would you stop eating vegetables? I understand the point you are trying to make but as stated before all we can do is look down on it with grimace and suck it up. They have us by the balls

If all vegetables were plucked by child slaves, I'd start growing my own vegetables.

Touche.

[iago]

You should not be eating chocolate. It's fatening. There's child slaves who are skinny as tooth picks out there, you know?

You're right, people eat way too much chocolate. The reason is because it's dangerously cheap. We came right back around.

iago you have a point and your right none of us are 100% perfect but, if someone told you that all vegetables on the earth (exaggeration) were plucked by hands of 6 year old Chinese gold / vegetable farmers, would you stop eating vegetables? I understand the point you are trying to make but as stated before all we can do is look down on it with grimace and suck it up. They have us by the balls

If all vegetables were plucked by child slaves, I'd start growing my own vegetables.

Touche.

It's an interesting thought, though -- what if picking vegetables was such a labour-intensive task that slavery was the only cost effective way of doing it?

I like to think that, if that was the case, technology and the economy would have evolved in such a way that the process would be in someway automated by now (and I suppose that's already happened in modern agriculture, really).

[Lead]

You should not be eating chocolate. It's fatening. There's child slaves who are skinny as tooth picks out there, you know?

You're right, people eat way too much chocolate. The reason is because it's dangerously cheap. We came right back around.

iago you have a point and your right none of us are 100% perfect but, if someone told you that all vegetables on the earth (exaggeration) were plucked by hands of 6 year old Chinese gold / vegetable farmers, would you stop eating vegetables? I understand the point you are trying to make but as stated before all we can do is look down on it with grimace and suck it up. They have us by the balls

If all vegetables were plucked by child slaves, I'd start growing my own vegetables.

Touche.

It's an interesting thought, though -- what if picking vegetables was such a labour-intensive task that slavery was the only cost effective way of doing it?

I like to think that, if that was the case, technology and the economy would have evolved in such a way that the process would be in someway automated by now (and I suppose that's already happened in modern agriculture, really).

But remember some of our veggies may come from 3rd world countries that do in fact use child labor as a medium for vegetable picking.

[Camel]

Bu... bu... but I thought Cadbury Cream Eggs were laid by magical rabbits?

I think iago would argue that's wrong, too...

[Chavo]

About the only thing we can do to protest is not buy their products.  I think it's pretty clear from the response here that most of us aren't chocolate junkies anyway

I think I've spent less than $10 total in the past year on Hershey or Mars products, and that was probably all at Halloween.  Of course my reasons are more not-wanting-to-destroy-my-teeth and don't-particularly-like-sweet-things motivated.

[iago]

But remember some of our veggies may come from 3rd world countries that do in fact use child labor as a medium for vegetable picking.

You're right, and tropical fruit is one of the sketchiest things.

Like I said, I do my best to buy fair trade and such when I can. I love spending $5.99 for a small bag of dried mango!

About the only thing we can do to protest is not buy their products.  I think it's pretty clear from the response here that most of us aren't chocolate junkies anyway

I think I've spent less than $10 total in the past year on Hershey or Mars products, and that was probably all at Halloween.  Of course my reasons are more not-wanting-to-destroy-my-teeth and don't-particularly-like-sweet-things motivated.

I disagree that it's the only thing you can do, but it's by far the easiest thing.

[Lead]

About the only thing we can do to protest is not buy their products.  I think it's pretty clear from the response here that most of us aren't chocolate junkies anyway

I think I've spent less than $10 total in the past year on Hershey or Mars products, and that was probably all at Halloween.  Of course my reasons are more not-wanting-to-destroy-my-teeth and don't-particularly-like-sweet-things motivated.

What kid wouldn't want a bowl of fresh green grapes over a Chocolate bar 

[warz]

You should not be eating chocolate. It's fatening. There's child slaves who are skinny as tooth picks out there, you know?

You're right, people eat way too much chocolate. The reason is because it's dangerously cheap. We came right back around.

I don't think price is necesarilly the reason somebody would buy chocolate. That giridelli chocolate or whatever is fairly expensive - so why do people love it? Because it tastes good. People are going to buy chocolate because they want to eat it, regardless of price... ofcourse, until the price becomes so high that people start to look for alternatives. Even chocolare that isn't made by chinese gold farmer children slaves isn't too expensive. But then again people could just really like chocolate.

[iago]

You should not be eating chocolate. It's fatening. There's child slaves who are skinny as tooth picks out there, you know?

You're right, people eat way too much chocolate. The reason is because it's dangerously cheap. We came right back around.

I don't think price is necesarilly the reason somebody would buy chocolate. That giridelli chocolate or whatever is fairly expensive - so why do people love it? Because it tastes good. People are going to buy chocolate because they want to eat it, regardless of price... ofcourse, until the price becomes so high that people start to look for alternatives. Even chocolare that isn't made by chinese gold farmer children slaves isn't too expensive. But then again people could just really like chocolate.

There are three levels, really: too cheap, medium, and too expensive.

Paying 50 cents for a chocolate bar, I'd say, is too cheap. Whenever you can buy stuff with pocket change that requires that much labour to create, it's too cheap. A couple dollars, or even five dollars, for plain (non-premium) chocolate is probably medium. At that price, it's possible for the workers to be paid fairly, and it isn't all that expensive.

But you just need one to come around for extra cheap, and everybody buys that without regard to how it's produced. That's the Tragedy of the Commons.

[warz]

No, that's what a company like Hersheys, or whatever, can do because they make so much chocolate anyways. Their solid chocolate bars are like 1/4th of a an inch thick. Probably takes little to no man-power to make - entirely robotic factory produced, I'd guess. I didn't read the article you link though so i dont know what brands are using the slave minions. We're also talking like... labor. Labor as in a worker is pouring easily measured ingredients into the machines, and then boxing the final products. Around here that's like a job that a high school drop out would persue, unless youre just a diehard herheys fan. So, being paid a poorly for that is somehting you'd halfway expect going into the job, anyways. I'm not going to expect 80k a year mixing milk and chocolate.

[iago]

Obviously, you didn't read the article.

All the big companies do it.

And by slave labour, it means that they have children *harvesting* the beans from farms in Ivory Coast (and other poor countries in Africa/South America). The children are taken from their homes when very young, forced to work 80+ hours weeks in the field, beaten regularly, etc. If they fall down they're kicked and beaten till they get back up, if they try to escape, they're beaten more, and when they're too old or unable to work enough to cover the cost of barely keeping them alive, they're disposed of.

You really should read the article, it's an eye opener.

[rabbit]

Maybe you think that $5 is reasonable, but that's almost an hour's pay for me.  I wouldn't spend that for a chocolate bar.  I'll take mine for $0.80, thank you.

[iago]

Well, you're making $5/hour for the same reason -- people aren't willing to pay more for stuff, so you get paid the minimum they can. If people paid more, you'd GET paid more. Crazy economy talk!

The slavery thing is just taking it to the extreme!

[deadly7]

If people paid more, you'd GET paid more.

And the price of everything would increase as well.

[Camel]

No, that's what a company like Hersheys, or whatever, can do because they make so much chocolate anyways.

They harvest by hand.

Well, you're making $5/hour for the same reason -- people aren't willing to pay more for stuff, so you get paid the minimum they can. If people paid more, you'd GET paid more.

You're just describing inflation. Newby is not a child/slave laborer whose income is disproportionately small.