Scots may require registration of bicycles

[CrAz3D]

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/-Government-in-talks-over.5642372.jp

Thoughts?  I think it makes sense if bikes are going to be on the road.  Also, they should have insurance like automobiles do.

Boyfriend of chick I work with was on a bike, and hit today.  Actually, he ran a stop sign and caused a collision.  But yeah.  Who is going to pay his meds?  Who is going to pay for the damage to the car that collided with him?

[Joe]

Yeah, I'm sure the bike did a ton of damage to the car. If anything did damage, it'd be his body. Do we need body insurance to walk outside our house? If a pedestrian walks past a stop sign and you're crusing along and hit him at 40mph and break three of his legs, is it still his fault?

[Camel]

Don't be stupid; that's what car insurance is for. Two bikes colliding would not require insurance intervention, and a bike/car collision is already covered by even the most rudimentary car insurance.

[Newby]

We have to register our bikes here in Davis!

[iago]

Don't be stupid; that's what car insurance is for. Two bikes colliding would not require insurance intervention, and a bike/car collision is already covered by even the most rudimentary car insurance.

He has a point about pedestrians, though. What if a pedestrian walks across the street on a red light, and causes an accident? That's the same situation that was posed, except a pedestrian instead of a bike.

The other issue is, if a cyclist causes an accident, why should it be up to the driver's insurance to cover it? (same with pedestrians)

[rabbit]

Pollen should have to be registered too.  I mean, if it floats out into the middle of the air and causes someone to go into anaphylactic shock, who's gonna pay the hospital bill?

[iago]

The primary difference there is that the pollen didn't make a mistake that caused the damage.

[MyndFyre]

The primary difference there is that the pollen didn't make a mistake that caused the damage.

Also, government isn't paying to create or maintain the air that the pollen is floating in.

[rabbit]

You're right, they aren't paying for it.  You know what else they aren't paying for?  Genetic tampering.  If allergies could be removed from the genetic code, then pollen wouldn't have to be insured anymore!

But seriously, registering a bike?  It's ridiculous.

[iago]

You're right, they aren't paying for it.  You know what else they aren't paying for?  Genetic tampering.  If allergies could be removed from the genetic code, then pollen wouldn't have to be insured anymore!

But seriously, registering a bike?  It's ridiculous.

I agree with your opinion, but I still think this thread has brought up some compelling questions. I, for one, don't have answers to them, and it's making me re-evaluate my opinion on this.

[BigAznDaddy]

wow registration for a bike.. that is kinda weak sauce.
I am an avid biker and I go off roading (mostly) and on the streets.

I get the insurance perspective but seriously if we are going to need to register bikes how about registering skateboards, rollerblades
or how about needing to have a drivers license to ride a bike.

that is ridiculous.
 

[CrAz3D]

You're right, they aren't paying for it.  You know what else they aren't paying for?  Genetic tampering.  If allergies could be removed from the genetic code, then pollen wouldn't have to be insured anymore!

But seriously, registering a bike?  It's ridiculous.

Then why register an automobile?

[Joe]

You're right, they aren't paying for it.  You know what else they aren't paying for?  Genetic tampering.  If allergies could be removed from the genetic code, then pollen wouldn't have to be insured anymore!

But seriously, registering a bike?  It's ridiculous.

Then why register an automobile?

I'll come to your house and borrow your bike, then ride in into the front of your house. Then I'll borrow your truck and drive it into the front of your house.

That's your answer.

[CrAz3D]

That has nothing to do with registration, and everything to do with insurance/you being arrested.

[Quik]

How can they even require registration? Last night, I stripped a bike apart into each of its individual pieces in like 10 minutes. Completely down to the bare frame, so that can go and be powdercoated. If you can completely change every piece on the bike, and then go paint the frame.. the only possible way of "registration" would involve some sort of identification number. And that would not be possible on old bikes, nor would it be easy to enforce with the amount of bikes that are stolen these days.

The idea seems like a decent theory, but if you think about it for a minute, it's preposterous. Do I have to contact the Department of Transportation every time I paint my frame a different color, or change the wheels?

[iago]

How can they even require registration? Last night, I stripped a bike apart into each of its individual pieces in like 10 minutes. Completely down to the bare frame, so that can go and be powdercoated. If you can completely change every piece on the bike, and then go paint the frame.. the only possible way of "registration" would involve some sort of identification number. And that would not be possible on old bikes, nor would it be easy to enforce with the amount of bikes that are stolen these days.

The idea seems like a decent theory, but if you think about it for a minute, it's preposterous. Do I have to contact the Department of Transportation every time I paint my frame a different color, or change the wheels?

They could just make everybody get a license plates, the same way bike couriers (at least here) have.

Boom, done, next.

[Quik]

How can they even require registration? Last night, I stripped a bike apart into each of its individual pieces in like 10 minutes. Completely down to the bare frame, so that can go and be powdercoated. If you can completely change every piece on the bike, and then go paint the frame.. the only possible way of "registration" would involve some sort of identification number. And that would not be possible on old bikes, nor would it be easy to enforce with the amount of bikes that are stolen these days.

The idea seems like a decent theory, but if you think about it for a minute, it's preposterous. Do I have to contact the Department of Transportation every time I paint my frame a different color, or change the wheels?

They could just make everybody get a license plates, the same way bike couriers (at least here) have.

Boom, done, next.

Easy to steal plates / such a hassle if you have multiple bikes / old bikes don't have any sort of mounting or standard for it on the frame. Oh, and it'd be terribly hard to enforce, I'd imagine.

[rabbit]

How can they even require registration? Last night, I stripped a bike apart into each of its individual pieces in like 10 minutes. Completely down to the bare frame, so that can go and be powdercoated. If you can completely change every piece on the bike, and then go paint the frame.. the only possible way of "registration" would involve some sort of identification number. And that would not be possible on old bikes, nor would it be easy to enforce with the amount of bikes that are stolen these days.

The idea seems like a decent theory, but if you think about it for a minute, it's preposterous. Do I have to contact the Department of Transportation every time I paint my frame a different color, or change the wheels?

They could just make everybody get a license plates, the same way bike couriers (at least here) have.

Boom, done, next.

Bike messengers in Philly....that's pretty much them.

[iago]

How can they even require registration? Last night, I stripped a bike apart into each of its individual pieces in like 10 minutes. Completely down to the bare frame, so that can go and be powdercoated. If you can completely change every piece on the bike, and then go paint the frame.. the only possible way of "registration" would involve some sort of identification number. And that would not be possible on old bikes, nor would it be easy to enforce with the amount of bikes that are stolen these days.

The idea seems like a decent theory, but if you think about it for a minute, it's preposterous. Do I have to contact the Department of Transportation every time I paint my frame a different color, or change the wheels?

They could just make everybody get a license plates, the same way bike couriers (at least here) have.

Boom, done, next.

Easy to steal plates / such a hassle if you have multiple bikes / old bikes don't have any sort of mounting or standard for it on the frame. Oh, and it'd be terribly hard to enforce, I'd imagine.

Most of those have the exact same issues with cars, and the same solutions, too.

[Camel]

He has a point about pedestrians, though. What if a pedestrian walks across the street on a red light, and causes an accident? That's the same situation that was posed, except a pedestrian instead of a bike.

The other issue is, if a cyclist causes an accident, why should it be up to the driver's insurance to cover it? (same with pedestrians)

The issue is the same if you replace the cyclist with an uninsured driver. The bottom line is it's all covered by the same "uninsured whatever" clause in the insurance, and you're only penalized if you're found to be at fault anyways.

Are you suggesting that the pedestrian/cyclist/uninsured driver should have to pay out of pocket to fix your car? If a branch falls off a tree and kills your car, should the tree pay out of pocket?

[Joe]

That has nothing to do with registration, and everything to do with insurance/you being arrested.

I just made you say bikes don't need insurance. You lose.

[Quik]

How can they even require registration? Last night, I stripped a bike apart into each of its individual pieces in like 10 minutes. Completely down to the bare frame, so that can go and be powdercoated. If you can completely change every piece on the bike, and then go paint the frame.. the only possible way of "registration" would involve some sort of identification number. And that would not be possible on old bikes, nor would it be easy to enforce with the amount of bikes that are stolen these days.

The idea seems like a decent theory, but if you think about it for a minute, it's preposterous. Do I have to contact the Department of Transportation every time I paint my frame a different color, or change the wheels?

They could just make everybody get a license plates, the same way bike couriers (at least here) have.

Boom, done, next.

[img ][ /img]Bike messengers in Philly....that's pretty much them.

You just posted a picture of some random emo-wannabe trendwhore fixed gear rider. What was the point of that, again?

How can they even require registration? Last night, I stripped a bike apart into each of its individual pieces in like 10 minutes. Completely down to the bare frame, so that can go and be powdercoated. If you can completely change every piece on the bike, and then go paint the frame.. the only possible way of "registration" would involve some sort of identification number. And that would not be possible on old bikes, nor would it be easy to enforce with the amount of bikes that are stolen these days.

The idea seems like a decent theory, but if you think about it for a minute, it's preposterous. Do I have to contact the Department of Transportation every time I paint my frame a different color, or change the wheels?

They could just make everybody get a license plates, the same way bike couriers (at least here) have.

Boom, done, next.

Easy to steal plates / such a hassle if you have multiple bikes / old bikes don't have any sort of mounting or standard for it on the frame. Oh, and it'd be terribly hard to enforce, I'd imagine.

Most of those have the exact same issues with cars, and the same solutions, too.

Heh, not really. How do you expect to make sure a certain plate is registered to the bike it's on? It's not like you can compare with the rider's biking license unless you actually, you know, require people to have a license to ride bikes.

Requiring registration for bikes is like requiring registration for guns. Sure, it may help sometimes, but there's always ways to avoid dealing with it. Get caught up with an illegal bike? Who cares. Leave it somewhere and go get another.. they're cheap and easily available.

[rabbit]

How can they even require registration? Last night, I stripped a bike apart into each of its individual pieces in like 10 minutes. Completely down to the bare frame, so that can go and be powdercoated. If you can completely change every piece on the bike, and then go paint the frame.. the only possible way of "registration" would involve some sort of identification number. And that would not be possible on old bikes, nor would it be easy to enforce with the amount of bikes that are stolen these days.

The idea seems like a decent theory, but if you think about it for a minute, it's preposterous. Do I have to contact the Department of Transportation every time I paint my frame a different color, or change the wheels?

They could just make everybody get a license plates, the same way bike couriers (at least here) have.

Boom, done, next.

[img ][ /img]Bike messengers in Philly....that's pretty much them.

You just posted a picture of some random emo-wannabe trendwhore fixed gear rider. What was the point of that, again?

Because that's what they are all like.  Ever try to get an emo-wannabe trendwhore to "conform" to something like registration?  Not gonna happen.

[iago]

Heh, not really. How do you expect to make sure a certain plate is registered to the bike it's on? It's not like you can compare with the rider's biking license unless you actually, you know, require people to have a license to ride bikes.

Requiring registration for bikes is like requiring registration for guns. Sure, it may help sometimes, but there's always ways to avoid dealing with it. Get caught up with an illegal bike? Who cares. Leave it somewhere and go get another.. they're cheap and easily available.

Would requiring a license to ride a bike be such a bad thing? I mean, if you're on the road, it's assumed you should understand the rules of the road. Requiring a driver license to ride a bike with traffic actually makes sense.

True enough comparing it to gun registration. I think the insurance aspect of it is more important than registering it, really.

[Quik]

Heh, not really. How do you expect to make sure a certain plate is registered to the bike it's on? It's not like you can compare with the rider's biking license unless you actually, you know, require people to have a license to ride bikes.

Requiring registration for bikes is like requiring registration for guns. Sure, it may help sometimes, but there's always ways to avoid dealing with it. Get caught up with an illegal bike? Who cares. Leave it somewhere and go get another.. they're cheap and easily available.

Would requiring a license to ride a bike be such a bad thing? I mean, if you're on the road, it's assumed you should understand the rules of the road. Requiring a driver license to ride a bike with traffic actually makes sense.

True enough comparing it to gun registration. I think the insurance aspect of it is more important than registering it, really.

Wait until you're a dad, trying to teach your kids how to ride a bike. But first, field trip to the DMV to get your bike license!

[rabbit]

Nope!  First is a field trip to the DMV/MVC for a bicycle permit.  Then after ~6 months (depending on the state) span and accumulated 60 hours of riding with someone who's been licensed for 3 years you go on another field trip for your license.  Of course, you can get it a year earlier if you take a course, but then you can only ride at certain times of the day, and then after a year of that you get your full license.  And then you have to go back when you're 21.

[CrAz3D]

Easy to steal plates / such a hassle if you have multiple bikes / old bikes don't have any sort of mounting or standard for it on the frame. Oh, and it'd be terribly hard to enforce, I'd imagine.

Same applies to motorcycles

That has nothing to do with registration, and everything to do with insurance/you being arrested.

I just made you say bikes don't need insurance. You lose.

WTF?

I asked why register cars?  You talked about running a bike into a house.  I responded that has to do with insurance.

Bicyclists SHOULD have insurance, because the DO cause damage.  Look at any large campus with bikers.  What happens when the knock someone down (seen it)?  They dont/cant pay for medical treatment.  What about bikes involved in car accidents?  Damage to fenders can happen easily, and be pricey.

[iago]

Heh, not really. How do you expect to make sure a certain plate is registered to the bike it's on? It's not like you can compare with the rider's biking license unless you actually, you know, require people to have a license to ride bikes.

Requiring registration for bikes is like requiring registration for guns. Sure, it may help sometimes, but there's always ways to avoid dealing with it. Get caught up with an illegal bike? Who cares. Leave it somewhere and go get another.. they're cheap and easily available.

Would requiring a license to ride a bike be such a bad thing? I mean, if you're on the road, it's assumed you should understand the rules of the road. Requiring a driver license to ride a bike with traffic actually makes sense.

True enough comparing it to gun registration. I think the insurance aspect of it is more important than registering it, really.

Wait until you're a dad, trying to teach your kids how to ride a bike. But first, field trip to the DMV to get your bike license!

I think you missed the part where I said "on the road" with "with traffic" -- I assume the junior isn't going to be cruising down the main thoroughfares.

[deadly7]

I think you missed the part where I said "on the road" with "with traffic" -- I assume the junior isn't going to be cruising down the main thoroughfares.

You'd be surprised how many bad parents there are in this country. I've seen MANY young children and pre-teens biking on streets with no sidewalk and cars going at 55mph.

[BigAznDaddy]

so a 5 year old needs insurance.

[Joe]

If someone bikes into you hard enough to dent your fender it should be a matter of law, not insurance.

[BigAznDaddy]

If someone bikes into you hard enough to dent your fender it should be a matter of law, not insurance.

I agree.

[deadly7]

so a 5 year old needs insurance.

Honestly, I'd much rather a few five year olds get hit and parents realize they suck at life.

[Quik]

I think you missed the part where I said "on the road" with "with traffic" -- I assume the junior isn't going to be cruising down the main thoroughfares.

You'd be surprised how many bad parents there are in this country. I've seen MANY young children and pre-teens biking on streets with no sidewalk and cars going at 55mph.

Heh, guess nobody here had any sort of childhood. You're trying to tell me that you never cruised around with your friends on the streets with your bike as your only mode of transportation when you were in middle and early high school? Don't blame the parents..

Oh, and it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk. Stick to the bike lane.

[Joe]

In my hometown, there are no bike lanes. I don't think there's a single bike lane in the whole city.

In Madison, bike lanes are scary enough to make me crap myself. The bus lane doubles as the right-turn lane, and to get into it you need to cross the bike lane. That's right, you're now a moving target.

[iago]

I think you missed the part where I said "on the road" with "with traffic" -- I assume the junior isn't going to be cruising down the main thoroughfares.

You'd be surprised how many bad parents there are in this country. I've seen MANY young children and pre-teens biking on streets with no sidewalk and cars going at 55mph.

Heh, guess nobody here had any sort of childhood. You're trying to tell me that you never cruised around with your friends on the streets with your bike as your only mode of transportation when you were in middle and early high school? Don't blame the parents..

Oh, and it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk. Stick to the bike lane.

By the time you're old enough to be in middle/high school, it isn't unreasonable to earn a license of some sort, even if it's specifically a cyclist license. And who's blaming the parents?

I'm not sure about the US, but here it's legal to ride on the sidewalk until you have wheels of a certain size (I forget how big). So it's legal for kids to ride on the street, but not adults (typically).

<edit> For what it's worth, you bounced between "you're a dad, trying to teach your kids how to ride a bike" and being in middle school/highschool and using your bike to commute. You're going to have to pick some arguments and stick with them, otherwise it's impossible to discuss.

[CrAz3D]

If someone bikes into you hard enough to dent your fender it should be a matter of law, not insurance.

It is a matter of law.  But, can you afford $700 tomorrow if you crash a bicycle into someone's car?  Probably not.  Hence having insurance

[Quik]

I think you missed the part where I said "on the road" with "with traffic" -- I assume the junior isn't going to be cruising down the main thoroughfares.

You'd be surprised how many bad parents there are in this country. I've seen MANY young children and pre-teens biking on streets with no sidewalk and cars going at 55mph.

Heh, guess nobody here had any sort of childhood. You're trying to tell me that you never cruised around with your friends on the streets with your bike as your only mode of transportation when you were in middle and early high school? Don't blame the parents..

Oh, and it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk. Stick to the bike lane.

By the time you're old enough to be in middle/high school, it isn't unreasonable to earn a license of some sort, even if it's specifically a cyclist license. And who's blaming the parents?

I'm not sure about the US, but here it's legal to ride on the sidewalk until you have wheels of a certain size (I forget how big). So it's legal for kids to ride on the street, but not adults (typically).

<edit> For what it's worth, you bounced between "you're a dad, trying to teach your kids how to ride a bike" and being in middle school/highschool and using your bike to commute. You're going to have to pick some arguments and stick with them, otherwise it's impossible to discuss.

I just referenced riding around in middle school because many people were talking about never seeing "kids" in the streets. Hell, we did it during elementary school. How young are you defining "kids"? I don't think it's much of a difference between the two age groups I was mentioning.. I don't expect any 12 year olds to go get a biking license, even if it is required by law. It's just not happening.

[deadly7]

Heh, guess nobody here had any sort of childhood. You're trying to tell me that you never cruised around with your friends on the streets with your bike as your only mode of transportation when you were in middle and early high school? Don't blame the parents..

Oh, and it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk. Stick to the bike lane.

No I've done all of that. But there's a difference between doing that and being smart about it. And when there's a five to ten then year old driving a bike against traffic going 55mph, I have every right to be pissed off at the idiot parent that didn't teach them how to not be a dipshit.

[Joe]

If someone bikes into you hard enough to dent your fender it should be a matter of law, not insurance.

It is a matter of law.  But, can you afford $700 tomorrow if you crash a bicycle into someone's car?  Probably not.  Hence having insurance

I think you missed my point. I was kinda vague. I mean that if someone bikes into a fender hard enough to damage it, they meant to do it.

And no, I don't have $700 to fix someone's fender tomorrow. I'm not planning on biking anywhere tomorrow (or in the foreseeable future), and even if I were, I wouldn't bike straight into someone's fender.

[warz]

They might not have meant to do it, but odds are either they were jacking around or it was a pretty hilarious mistake to watch.

[CrAz3D]

If someone bikes into you hard enough to dent your fender it should be a matter of law, not insurance.

It is a matter of law.  But, can you afford $700 tomorrow if you crash a bicycle into someone's car?  Probably not.  Hence having insurance

I think you missed my point. I was kinda vague. I mean that if someone bikes into a fender hard enough to damage it, they meant to do it.

Not necessarily.  What about when a bike runs a stop sign?  Kid nails fender, lands on hood.  Right there is hundreds in damage.

[rabbit]

Not if you have this:

[Armin]

side story: My dad was waiting at a stop light. He was a couple feet into the crosswalk, and some fat bitch on a bike slammed into him; dented the hood pretty bad.

She asked for $100,000 from our insurance company, and got $50,000.

By law my dad was in fault, but the fat bitch should be able to control her bike better.

[Joe]

Not necessarily.  What about when a bike runs a stop sign?  Kid nails fender, lands on hood.  Right there is hundreds in damage.

I didn't know they made F150's out of cardboard.

[iago]

side story: My dad was waiting at a stop light. He was a couple feet into the crosswalk, and some fat bitch on a bike slammed into him; dented the hood pretty bad.

She asked for $100,000 from our insurance company, and got $50,000.

By law my dad was in fault, but the fat bitch should be able to control her bike better.

I hate it when motorists cross the crosswalk, especially when they stop then pull over it. Worse yet, when they pull out into the street (like making a right turn on red) -- I normally don't ride on the sidewalk, except for particularly dangerous areas. But anyway, I've had to slam on my brakes quite frequently due to motorists pulling out in front of me (motorists frequently don't see/ignore cyclists, and cut them off without thinking).

I don't know what the situation is with your dad, but besides the large amount from the insurance company, it's very possible that it wasn't her fault (keeping in mind that, as far as people in accidents are concerned, it's always the other person's fault. Always!

Oh, and I also hate it when motorists stop at stupid spots when I'm behind them, like while making a clear right turn. I once flipped over my bike and hit the ground because some lady stopped in front of me while turning right, and I was shoulder checking to make sure nobody was coming up behind me while I passed her. I shouldn't have looked away, but whatever -- I blame her. After all, like I said, it's always the other person's fault. I should have just rammed her, though. I wouldn't have fallen, and she'd get what she probably didn't deserve!

[rabbit]

Not necessarily.  What about when a bike runs a stop sign?  Kid nails fender, lands on hood.  Right there is hundreds in damage.

I didn't know they made F150's out of cardboard.

Because, you know, fenders and panels aren't made to crumple easily so that energy from a crash is dispersed instead of transferred or anything.

[deadly7]

Because, you know, fenders and panels aren't made to crumple easily so that energy from a crash is dispersed instead of transferred or anything.

Joe goes to community college. They don't cover that.

[Joe]

I'm pretty sure a programming degree from MIT wouldn't cover crumple zones either.

And for what it's worth, I actually didn't know that F150's have crumple zones. Then again, my dad drives an '89 made of solid steel.

[rabbit]

All road cars have crumple zones....

[iago]

For the record, I just wanted to say: this is what politics threads look like when they aren't moderated. Therefore, this is why we need moderation in a politics forum.

[Joe]

All road cars have crumple zones....

Do you mean "cars" as in "cars" or "vehicles"? Cause you're wrong on both counts.

F150's aren't cars.

Busses don't have crumple zones.

[rabbit]

All road cars have crumple zones....

Do you mean "cars" as in "cars" or "vehicles"? Cause you're wrong on both counts.

Vehicles

F150's aren't cars.

The way I'm using the word "cars" they are.

Busses don't have crumple zones.

Yes they do.

Also, stop being a douchebag.  You knew exactly what I was saying.