MacBook 2.1 - Odd Problems

[Krazed]

I recently obtained a MacBook 2.1, which was pretty cool but it has some odd problems. Randomly it will freeze up while doing different kinds of tasks, and it also randomly restarts from time to time. If I had to guess I'd say it could be the harddrive, but I don't hear any noise coming from the harddrive to support that. If it were Windows, I'd probably guess a virus. But since this is my first Mac ever, I'm really not sure at all.

[Joe]

What version of OS X are you running? (Apple Menu => About This Mac)

Did you reformat when you first got it?

If you didn't get a system install disc with it, I recommend going to The Apple Store and buying a copy of Snow Leopard. It's only $30.

[Krazed]

Mac OS X 10.4.11 - I don't have any disks or anything, it was given to me as a broken laptop. I don't want to spend the money because I want to figure out the problem first. I can't reproduce an exact situation in which it freezes. It's random, it can't idle for more than 10-15 minutes without freezing / restarting. I'm debating buying a new SATA harddrive but I want to be sure that's the problem.

[Camel]

If you're getting "random restarts," and you're not seeing a kernel panic (think BSoD, except it's gray and the font isn't as ugly), the only possibility is a hardware reset. I'm not aware of any cause for that other than the CPU overheating. You may need to replace the fan - I just did it in mine, and it was pretty easy.

[Joe]

Download iStat Pro and run it in Dashboard, and check out your processor temperature and fan speed. For comparison, my MacBook has been sitting on my desk under normal usage for about 3 hours and is at 44 Celsius and 2005 rpms.

If your processor is obscenely hot, then it should be shutting down automatically to prevent it from blowing up, metaphorically or literally. I had that happening to my Inspiron 1525 a while back, and I had to remove the fan, the clump of dust, and stick the fan back in, then it worked perfectly.

The other alternative is that your "broken computer" is really broken. But the beauty of Apple is that the people at the Genius Bar can decide that and we don't have to speculate.

And lastly, if you don't want to buy Snow Leopard, it doesn't require a CD-Key or anything so you can just download it from a Bay of Pirates or something. But because it's only $30 and they're not copy-protection thugs, I felt that should be rewarded with my $30, but YMMV. Ironically Snow Leopard is hard to find, since most of them are hacked Snow Leopard DVDs for non-Apple hardware. Also keep in mind that it needs to be burned onto a Dual Layer DVD since it's >4.7GB.

[deadly7]

The other alternative is that your "broken computer" is really broken. But the beauty of Apple is that the people at the Genius Bar can decide that and we don't have to speculate.

Because diagnosing a non-Apple computer is so hard to do and there isn't far more software support and diagnostic material out there....

Oh, wait.

[Camel]

Ironically Snow Leopard is hard to find, since most of them are hacked Snow Leopard DVDs for non-Apple hardware. Also keep in mind that it needs to be burned onto a Dual Layer DVD since it's >4.7GB.

I didn't have any trouble finding it a couple weeks before it was released - but that was before any of the hacked versions were released. Also, I don't think I know anyone who actually burned it to a DVD, since it's so much faster and easier and freer to restore the DMG to a free partition or external drive. I chopped an 8GB partition off my time machine external drive to keep the SL installer.

[Krazed]

Been on for roughly ten minutes, fan's at 1800rpm and CPU's at 49 degrees.

And, it froze so I restarted it and the keyboard was all types of fucked up. Pressing different letter keys gave me numbers and symbols. Something is corrupt as fuck.

Also.. it cannot go to screensaver without freezing up and needing to be restarted. When I try to bring it back it'll go to a black screen then back to the screensaver. I can move the mouse cursor around and see it, but other then that nothing.

[Camel]

Well, 49 isn't nearly hot enough to be overheating, but it definitely sounds like a hardware reset. What is making you suspect the HDD? The HDD doesn't have direct access to the reset pin, so I don't think it's likely that the HDD is bad.

My guess would be the RAM, but I would expect to at least see the gray screen of death. Try running memtest or equivalent; I've never used it on a Mac, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

If memtest passes, I'd say take it to the genius bar. You may have to toss them a few bones if it's out of warranty, but they usually don't ask for money until they have a diagnosis. It can't hurt to ask.

[Joe]

The other alternative is that your "broken computer" is really broken. But the beauty of Apple is that the people at the Genius Bar can decide that and we don't have to speculate.

Because diagnosing a non-Apple computer is so hard to do and there isn't far more software support and diagnostic material out there....

Oh, wait.

You're right. Normally I'd tell him to stick in his Apple Hardware Test CD and run the full set of tests. But he doesn't have one, and I only have one x86 version so I can't mail it to him either.

Been on for roughly ten minutes, fan's at 1800rpm and CPU's at 49 degrees.

And, it froze so I restarted it and the keyboard was all types of fucked up. Pressing different letter keys gave me numbers and symbols. Something is corrupt as fuck.

Also.. it cannot go to screensaver without freezing up and needing to be restarted. When I try to bring it back it'll go to a black screen then back to the screensaver. I can move the mouse cursor around and see it, but other then that nothing.

Get yourself an Ubuntu live CD, or whatever floats your boat, stick it in and hold down C while pressing the power button, until it gets to the Ubuntu screen. If your keyboard works fine and it doesn't randomly restart, the problem is your OS X install.

[Krazed]

I do get the grey screen of death. And, I do have problems with the ubuntu CD. It freezes up and doesn't let me install. Hmm, it probably is memory to be honest. And, I don't hear any noise from the harddrive so you know, maybe you guys are dead on with the memory. I'll order 4gb's of memory and try that out.

Edit: Ordered this memory a few minutes ago. I'm almost sure the laptop will only recongize 3.2GB of the memory but that doesn't really make much of a difference to me. Plus, I've always loved g.skill memory... and the 2GB is $50 after tax and doesn't have free shipping.

[Joe]

According to Mactracker (which is awesome, by the way), the MacBook 2,1 supports up to 2GB of RAM according to Apple, with actual support up to 3GB. Apple always understates the RAM capacity.

It's worth noting that there were two different MacBook 2,1's. The elder was released November '06 and ran until May '07, and the other ran from May '07 to November '07, when the MacBook 3,1 was released.

If you really want to know which one you have, get an Apple Hardware Test DVD and run that. "AHT 3A114" is the old 2,1, and "AHT 3A128" is the new one. Not that it's relevant -- both are still supported by Apple.

[Camel]

The CPU has PAE, so you should be able to get 64GB so long as you are willing to mess with mach_kernel.

[Joe]

..and can find two 32GB sticks. Unlikely.

So what goes in to calculating the "actual" RAM limit? Just the fact that 4GB sticks are the highest capacity currently manufactured?

[Sidoh]

Just the fact that 4GB sticks are the highest capacity currently manufactured?

I kinda doubt that's the case.

[MyndFyre]

So what goes in to calculating the "actual" RAM limit? Just the fact that 4GB sticks are the highest capacity currently manufactured?

Probably the northbridge.

they're not copy-protection thugs

Yeah, they're just the only PC manufacturer that includes a DRM chip specifically so that you can run their OS....

[Camel]

So what goes in to calculating the "actual" RAM limit? Just the fact that 4GB sticks are the highest capacity currently manufactured?

It's a completely arbitrary limit in the kernel. All Intel Macs have had PAE, so the hardware supports 64GB, but the kernel does not.

I would guess that, at the time the computer came out, that was as much RAM as they could cram in there to test the kernel against. Apple have never in the history of the company existing added support for an existing hardware feature after a product was released without support (except 802.11n in G2 MacBooks, but they charged for it), so don't expect them to "fix" it ever.

Yeah, they're just the only PC manufacturer that includes a DRM chip specifically so that you can run their OS....

Apple is definitely not the only PC manufacturer that includes TPM chips in their computers. Most laptops have them, actually. Every machine Dell currently sells has one. I've even seen some motherboards on NewEgg that have them.

Console and cell phone manufacturers get away with locking down their products. I don't think it's insane for Apple to do the same. Also, it's actually just a TPM chip, not specifically designed to perform DRM; it's used for legitimate purposes too, such as securing the keychain. The chip is just some WOM (a private key store) and a simple processor optimized for doing cryptographic operations, so there's nothing inherently unjust about having one.

[Krazed]

My memory arrived today, and all is well. Good looks on the suggestion, Camel! Plus, everywhere I had read states my MacBook will only show 3GB of ram because that is the most supported, howeverrr it shows all 4GB which is pretty awesome. So yeah, I'm pretty excited about it.

[MyndFyre]

Apple is definitely not the only PC manufacturer that includes TPM chips in their computers.

Sorry, I'll try restating this...

Yeah, they're just the only PC manufacturer that includes a DRM chip specifically so that you can run their OS....