The thing is, in the left few years I've tried to deconstruct my socialized biases and look at the world for what, for lack of definition, it really is. Basically, trying to look past the things I was taught as a kid and look at how things are outside of what humans have turned the world into.
That idea, however, goes exactly against what you and Ender are saying, that man-created society can be considered natural.
The way I see it, we are approaching this from fundamentally different directions and hitting different natural conclusions. We'd have to dig a lot deeper to really discuss it, and I don't think a forum is the proper, err, forum for that.