College Education

[Ender]

[Inspired by nslay's discussion on college in "Story of a Professional Cheater"]

For those who have completed their college education, how do you look back on it? What are you glad of, and what are your regrets? What did you major in? Do you wish you had majored in something else?

For me, I studied English literature, and I have three more quarters after this one until I graduate. As I look back, I don't know whether I should have majored in comp sci. The jobs I will be seeking will be "computer jobs", whether they be software dev., systems admin or IT. (I currently work a job in IT with a touch of admin. and software dev.) And it would have really given me a leg up to major in comp sci. At the same time, I majored in English because I wanted to do something different, and because I really do prefer to learn comp sci on my own, individually, so that it's like slowly uncovering a mystery.

I know that Myndfyre majored in poli sci / psychology. Myndfyre, are you glad that you did that? Do you have any regrets? They are not exactly the degrees that a software company are looking for in programmers, but at the same time you seem to be very successful and employable as a software engineer.

For those who majored in comp sci, (I just saw all your thoughts in the recent thread about college, which brings this post to mind), how was your experience? Are you glad you did it? How much did it do in your career?

[iago]

I had a good time, made a lot of good friends, and really enjoyed my experience/classes/co-op job (internships).

At the same time, though, I'm not sure that I've directly applied anything I've used in my whole university education. The most useful course I ever took, really, was technical writing/speaking (tech com).

I definitely wouldn't be where I am today, not even close, if it wasn't for my university experience, but I don't think it directly benefited me all that much.

[Joe]

I know I'm not in the audience of your question, but I'm majoring in programming and analysis.

It's been an interesting experience for me because I've befriended (I think that is actually the best term) an instructor and I've been invited to work on a bunch of projects with him, since he runs his own consulting firm. Also, tutoring in the IT work lab has given me a reputation as the guy to go to with random questions, partly to my knowledge and partly to my exceptional (apparently) googling skills.

Taking electives taught by part time instructors has allowed me to meet a cofounder of a local startup, and a hiring manager at a larger company. Right now I'm really adopting the philosophy that if I want to make it big independently, I need to jump at it now and get on my feet and profitable before I need to really support myself.

I took this on a tangent and I think I'll drop it now, but this has been the train of thought running through my mind for the past few days and I thought I'd post it.

[Sidoh]

I majored in computer science and math.  I look back on it very fondly.  I challenged myself with the courses I selected, and I think I benefited greatly from it.  I like the job prospects I have.  I like the type of work I do, and I love the subject I chose to study.  If I were forced to choose a new major, I think it'd be physics, but computer science/math is a better choice for me.

The things I learned in my classes are directly useful in the jobs I've done, and I'm very pleased with how well prepared I feel to ... do whatever it is I decide to do.

[while1]

College is a waste for non-technical degrees.

[Joe]

I went to a juggling show last night. It was a running joke throughout the show that they were all humanities majors, which is why they had so much free time for four years.

[iago]

It's not so much that the courses I took weren't challenging or I didn't learn a lot, it's more than I didn't end up in the same field as the courses I took.. I wound up doing stuff that I taught myself.

[MyndFyre]

[Inspired by nslay's discussion on college in "Story of a Professional Cheater"]

For those who have completed their college education, how do you look back on it? What are you glad of, and what are your regrets? What did you major in? Do you wish you had majored in something else?

For me, I studied English literature, and I have three more quarters after this one until I graduate. As I look back, I don't know whether I should have majored in comp sci. The jobs I will be seeking will be "computer jobs", whether they be software dev., systems admin or IT. (I currently work a job in IT with a touch of admin. and software dev.) And it would have really given me a leg up to major in comp sci. At the same time, I majored in English because I wanted to do something different, and because I really do prefer to learn comp sci on my own, individually, so that it's like slowly uncovering a mystery.

I know that Myndfyre majored in poli sci / psychology. Myndfyre, are you glad that you did that? Do you have any regrets? They are not exactly the degrees that a software company are looking for in programmers, but at the same time you seem to be very successful and employable as a software engineer.

Like you said, I double-majored in poli sci and psychology.  I do have some regrets and some not.  I wish I had gone on to take DiffEq and Linear Algebra, but that's not too bad.  I still remember calc 3 pretty well, 7 years later.  Overwhelmingly, though, I would say that I like my liberal arts education because it forced me to write, a lot.  I have a strong hankering that if I had stayed confined to the CS department at ASU, I would not be as good a writer as I am today.

By the time I finished college, I had done a lot of work with C between porting things like MBNCSUtil and reinterpreting the code for MaNGOS (the WoW emulator) so that I could write a client for WoW, and so I have a pretty effective and mixed skillset.  That said, I haven't been able to find a job outside of C#, probably because there aren't jobs like that in Arizona. 

I absolutely loved a couple of the classes I had in CS.  When I did "Digital Design Fundamentals," a class similar to one Newby is currently taking, it was my first semester.  I think it is still my favorite class.  But, the reason I quit the CS program is, quite frankly, it sucks at ASU.

I went back for a year to grad school in Software Engineering.  It was the same department and there were elective classes.  I took an Operating Systems class, and I knew literally everything in the class except for virtual memory paging by the time I got there.  But if you look at how they taught synchronization while I was there, I can see why, when I hired a kid out of school, he didn't know how to do anything practical when he graduated.  Of course, I'm not the first one to strongly condemn universities for how they teach the practices in computing.

My biggest regret is that I can't convince myself and suck it up to go do it, and I think that, for the most part, I now miss out on some jobs that I would really love, like those in games.  Maybe that's untrue.  Maybe it's that my current salary is way too high and game companies won't pay that much.  I don't know.

All told, I loved the college experience.  I wasn't a partier - I worked hard and had a lot of fun with friends.  Many employers tell me that they look more for my ability to commit to doing something long-term than for the actual program of study.  That said, I don't know where my theory about game businesses and stuff factors in.

[CrAz3D]

I graduated undergrad December 2008, and I'm in law school now.

I regret ... I guess not being more social, but that's something I do now, and havent changed.  *shrug*  I dont think I liked or disliked anything about college.  I hate my useless undergrad degree, and pretty much resent that I had to obtain a bachelor's degree in order to get into law school.  I definitely should've slept around...I'm pretty cynical and scorned feeling already, and I think that would probably help how I interact with women now.  Build up confidence and shit, ya know?

[dark_drake]

My undergraduate education in chemical engineering at the University of Wyoming was everything college should have been. Professors were open to collaboration, they had open doors, and they treated the students with respect. They were always looking for ways to involve students. Also, the department was incredible. I couldn't fill all the courses required for my BS and MS with courses in the department, so they let me take a large amount of courses in the chemistry department. Now, I didn't want to do chemistry research, but the courses were a lot of fun, and I'll probably use some of the methods in my research. At the very least, I know how to read spectra from NMR, Mass spec, GC, etc.

Chemical engineering was a lot of fun. I wish there had been more derivations and less hand-waving, but I've learned the derivations on my own over the last semester or so, and it's nice knowing where a lot of the equations came from.

However, because Wyoming is a small, unknown school, when the recession hit, companies just didn't come to recruit, and even though the students at Wyoming weren't necessarily worse than students elsewhere, we were left to fend for ourselves for the most part. And that's why I'm in graduate school. The only thing I can say here is I picked the wrong school. My adviser and project are looking awesome, but I hate the school and department. There's a breakdown of communication at each level in the university. I've asked one question to 5 different people, and I managed to receive 5 vastly different answers. Furthermore, they treat graduate students like shit. We're cheap, replaceable labor, and the department knows it. If anyone drops/fails out, they'll accept someone else into the program. In the end, I wish I had gone somewhere else. Oh well, only a few years of this bullshit, and graduating from a top 10 program makes it a little easier to get a foot in the door.

[AntiVirus]

I originally went to UMR (now MS&T) for a degree in Computer Science and ended up leaving the department after my freshmen year.  The main reason was because my adviser screwed me over with the way he recommended I scheduled my courses.  After that excessively stressful and completely unenjoyable semester I decided I did not want to spend the rest of my life working with computers.

After discovering I didn't enjoy Comp Sci as much as I had original thought I switched majors to another field of study that I have always loved, Biology/Pre-Med.  I ended up falling in love with the Department at MS&T as well as reigniting my love for Biology.  The faculty were amazing.  They had open door policies, always were willing to help students, and were all around very friendly and easy to talk to.  I can say for sure that I can't think of a single thing that I ended up being unhappy with in regards to the Biology Department at MS&T. Since graduating I will be furthering my studies by pursuing a career in Medicine, specifically Podiatry.  

There are two things I regret.  The first being the fact that I didn't have much of an opportunity to do research.  Not because my school didn't offer it, but because of the fact I wanted to graduate in 4 years so I had no room for it in my schedule.  The last thing I would say I regret is the fact that I quit Computer Science.  The only reason I regret that is because I am not a quitter and it just bothers me a little bit.  Overall, though, I am very happy with where my life is headed.

Unrelated to the OP, but if you're curious:

This fall I will be attending DMU (Des Moines University) to get my DPM (Doctor of Podiatric Medcine).  For those of you unfamiliar with Podiatry it's the foot and ankle specialty in medicine.  We're in "Medical School" for 4 years and then go off and complete 3 years of residency.  I quoted Medical School because the schedule isn't exactly the same as a regular medical school.  The first year is essentially identical to MD/DO students, with the second year only having some overlap in classes.  The rest of the time is spent with us focusing primarily on our specialty.  However, during residency there is no difference between someone with an MD and someone with a DPM.  They all do the same work and everyone expects you to be able to pull your weight regardless of your degree.  I decided against MD/DO for a variety of different reasons that I don't want to go into now.  It would end up being a giant block of text.

[Edit]
For other information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podiatrist

[dark_drake]

After discovering I didn't enjoy Comp Sci as much as I had original thought I switched majors to another field of study that I have always loved, Biology/Pre-Med.  I ended up falling in love with the Department at MS&T as well as reigniting my love for Biology.  The faculty were amazing.  They had open door policies, always were willing to help students, and were all around very friendly and easy to talk to.  I can say for sure that I can't think of a single thing that I ended up being unhappy with in regards to the Biology Department at MS&T. Since graduating I will be furthering my studies by pursuing a career in Medicine, specifically Podiatry.

Let me know how the first few semesters of the med school go. I was interested doing that once upon a time.

[Hitmen]

I'm about half done with a compsci degree at Umass Amherst. I've enjoyed my classes well enough but have gotten to the point where I'm not really sure it is what I want to do with my life. I'm taking some time off and working while I decide what to do. However the social experience has been great, and presented me with other possibilities. I have a friend who just graduated and lives in Abu Dhabi who is well connected and said he might be able to get me a job doing simple IT stuff. They pay Americans fairly large salaries on top of housing stipends, paying for flights home, etc. I'm not sure its a place I would want to live long term, but could definitely be a fun way to spend some time before I go back to school, or after I finish.

[Rule]

I did math and physics.  It was useful.  I think it made me smarter; I think differently, and have a deeper understanding of things, than if I hadn't gone.  Math is something I enjoy, but probably wouldn't have had the discipline to have done seriously if I weren't part of an organised curriculum. If I hadn't gone to university I would have been a musician or a writer, which would have caused me to develop in different ways.  But I think I made the right choice.  If I decided to become a writer now, my thinking will be enriched in ways that would make me more unique in that field.

[Falcon]

I'm in my 3rd year of undergrad in Computer Engineering at UT Dallas and so far I think the college experience has been more valuable than the actual courses I've taken. Living away from home taught me how to talk to and meet new people, how to manage my money, and also how to manage my time (I work part time along with taking classes full time). I've definitely grown up a lot more in college than I did during high school, but maybe that's due to me living away from my parents? I don't know.

But as far as how relevant my courses have been, I would say hardly at all. Here's why: I did a technical internship with Fidelity Investments at their Dallas data center last summer, for which I was to help implement and manage tools for their storage division. Everything was completely new to me, I had no clue what a SAN or NAS was or how to work with them because those terms never showed up in any of my courses. I literally had to sit in my cube and read books for a week straight to learn this stuff, all my co-workers there also had similar degrees such as CS or EE and they all told me they had to start from scratch when they first got there as well.

Maybe I'm just in the wrong place, maybe If I landed at Intel or AMD I would actually get to use the stuff I learned about crystalline structure and energy band gaps of semi-conductors. But so far my courses have not been very useful to me.

[while1]

I went to a small university that had a pretty shitty CS program IMO.  It wasn't nearly as challenging as I would have liked.  Most of my ability to program has come from my own self-teaching, own work ethic and pursuit of knowledge.  Post-secondary education does help in that it provides an underlying motivational force for one to study material that they might otherwise not, however, for me, I found that I could have done my current job as a software engineer almost as effectively as I can today had I not gone to college. 

However, I wouldn't have not done it any other way (that is going to college and getting my CS degree), because having that symbolic degree has weight, especially in a technical field.

[Ender]

I'm in my 3rd year of undergrad in Computer Engineering at UT Dallas and so far I think the college experience has been more valuable than the actual courses I've taken. Living away from home taught me how to talk to and meet new people, how to manage my money, and also how to manage my time (I work part time along with taking classes full time). I've definitely grown up a lot more in college than I did during high school, but maybe that's due to me living away from my parents? I don't know.

But as far as how relevant my courses have been, I would say hardly at all. Here's why: I did a technical internship with Fidelity Investments at their Dallas data center last summer, for which I was to help implement and manage tools for their storage division. Everything was completely new to me, I had no clue what a SAN or NAS was or how to work with them because those terms never showed up in any of my courses. I literally had to sit in my cube and read books for a week straight to learn this stuff, all my co-workers there also had similar degrees such as CS or EE and they all told me they had to start from scratch when they first got there as well.

Maybe I'm just in the wrong place, maybe If I landed at Intel or AMD I would actually get to use the stuff I learned about crystalline structure and energy band gaps of semi-conductors. But so far my courses have not been very useful to me.

That's interesting. I know exactly what you mean - the college experience has put us on our own. For me, I actually moved to my university when I first got here. I was kicked out of home senior year of high school. So now I live here year-long, not going back for vacations. It helps to have an apartment in the area - and it's nice that students here tend to get apartments as upperclassmen.

I also learned how to talk to people and make new friends. I made some very good friends, too, who moved with me into my apartment, and some of whom will live with me in my next.

My one problem was that due to all the drama toward my end of high school, I got derailed from my career track, the math/comp sci/physics emphasis I took on high school, and majored in English literature because I thought it would make me better, help me internalize my experience. It maybe did that, but I am much farther behind in my career right now than I would be had I not gotten off-track.

So now I will continue to work IT jobs (and hopefully programming jobs) while finishing college, (it's nice they pay well), and then afterward see what kinds of software dev. / systems admin jobs are out there and whether I need to go back to school to get a Master's in CS. I would also like to study some thorough EE and CS sometime after I get out of college. It's an experience that I always wanted of which I kind of robbed myself.

Falcon, I think what matters is not that you didn't apply things you learned in school to your job, but that you got the job in the first place. You likely got it from a result of your studies, your classes taken in CE. When you get your degree you will have employers take you on because of that degree. But there are A LOT of other college students who aren't getting any jobs at all after they graduate. These are people who didn't get a technical degree or develop a lucrative skillset, or plan on going to grad school. So even if you don't apply what you learn, you will still get the jobs because of your degree, and that's why a career-guided degree matters so much - it separates the people who can get the jobs from those who can't. So you should be happy that you have that degree, because eventually you and your friends will all be graduated and you'll be the only one with a job.

Also, the circuit stuff related to computers is extremely cool, and there are so many software engineers / IT specialists who wish they knew about it, but never studied it. Even if you don't use it, it's still great to know, and really informs the Big Picture.

[Sidoh]

I'm in my 3rd year of undergrad in Computer Engineering at UT Dallas and so far I think the college experience has been more valuable than the actual courses I've taken. Living away from home taught me how to talk to and meet new people, how to manage my money, and also how to manage my time (I work part time along with taking classes full time). I've definitely grown up a lot more in college than I did during high school, but maybe that's due to me living away from my parents? I don't know.

But as far as how relevant my courses have been, I would say hardly at all. Here's why: I did a technical internship with Fidelity Investments at their Dallas data center last summer, for which I was to help implement and manage tools for their storage division. Everything was completely new to me, I had no clue what a SAN or NAS was or how to work with them because those terms never showed up in any of my courses. I literally had to sit in my cube and read books for a week straight to learn this stuff, all my co-workers there also had similar degrees such as CS or EE and they all told me they had to start from scratch when they first got there as well.

Maybe I'm just in the wrong place, maybe If I landed at Intel or AMD I would actually get to use the stuff I learned about crystalline structure and energy band gaps of semi-conductors. But so far my courses have not been very useful to me.

CE and IT are pretty different fields, and I'm sure your education would be more directly applicable if you went somewhere that was hiring a computer engineer and not an IT person.

All three of my internships demanded the knowledge I gained in my classes.

[while1]

Falcon, I think what matters is not that you didn't apply things you learned in school to your job, but that you got the job in the first place. You likely got it from a result of your studies, your classes taken in CE. When you get your degree you will have employers take you on because of that degree. But there are A LOT of other college students who aren't getting any jobs at all after they graduate. These are people who didn't get a technical degree or develop a lucrative skillset, or plan on going to grad school. So even if you don't apply what you learn, you will still get the jobs because of your degree, and that's why a career-guided degree matters so much - it separates the people who can get the jobs from those who can't. So you should be happy that you have that degree, because eventually you and your friends will all be graduated and you'll be the only one with a job.

Exactly this, which I alluded to in my previous post.  The degree, whether learned anything or not, is arguably the surest way to get your proverbial foot through the door in terms of employers.  The graduating class of 2009 had the hardest time finding jobs due to the tanking of the economy.  IIRC, late summer of 2009 the statistics were that only 20% of the spring 2009 graduates had jobs in their field of study.  I was among that 20%, despite having received my CS degree from a university little known outside of Virginia.  Not many of my friends and fellow graduates had jobs at all, and those who did were mostly other CS graduates.  I chose a field where I will have relatively good job security and more options than most.  It's fortunate that I'm good at what I do and I enjoy it enough that I don't wake up every day wishing I was doing something else.

Of course there are a lot of other important factors that come into play than the degree, especially internships, research, and significant practical experience.  And of these that I had the opportunity to partake, would not have had if I didn't pursue my degree.  i.e. the summer research programs at Texas A&M, Notre Dame, and internships developing ASP.NET web applications for internal use by my university's IT department.  I would say the research programs I partook did give me the opportunity to apply things that I had learned in my studies.  i.e.  The summer before my senior year of undergrad, I was at Notre Dame and the research I was doing paired me with another undergrad who was a rising junior.  This guy had not yet taken OS, and so when it came to implementing a prototype of our research in pure C using POSIX threads, I had to teach him about things such as mutual exclusive, context switching, critical sections, etc.  I even printed out my multi-threaded dining philosopher's solution for him and sat down and went through it with him.  The summer before that, I was a rising junior and was doing research at Texas A&M, where I was again paired with someone a year/class behind me.  She was bright as hell, but what I found is that was even though I was more confident in my practical experience and knowledge- areas she lacked in, I found that the quality and difficulty of her university's coursework made me jealous and feel a bit insecure about my own.

[Newby]

I'm in my third year of a physics/computer science double major. It's a blast, although I sure as shit have no idea what I want to do with my life. Lots of things point towards me winding up in business, but with a strong math/science background and an intricate knowledge of computers, I figure I won't have too big an issue finding a job. Finding a job I turn into a career... that's up in the air.

[Rule]

I guess it's a practical consideration, but I don't like thinking about a degree as a way to get a job.  That's not what university or academics is supposed to be about at all.  For example, I don't think business should even be taught in university.

I also agree with CrAz3D that it's stupid having to do pre-law, or some undergraduate degree, prior to law.  I also think the same about pre-med.  Yes, I can see cases where it might be useful -- more maturity, more confidence in the ultimate 'medical career' decision, etc.  But it mostly ends up as people wasting 4 years of their lives -- and a lot of government/university money --  trying to 'play the system' to enhance their chances of admission, ultimately taking a bunch of bullshit courses, and learning more about how to become insincere and vacuous than about anything that would enrich their lives.

It's a good example of taking a degree just for a job; while it may be practical (although I definitely do not think ideal) for certain people, I think society as a whole would be a lot better off if we didn't think this way.

[Falcon]

Ender I agree that I should be glad I got that job. I actually applied to at least 20+ companies for that summer and they were the only one that got back to me, so I guess I got lucky that someone picked out my resume from the rest. I still keep in touch with some of my co-workers so hopefully I can get a job once I graduate.

And Sidoh yea thats true but the problem is that the companies that are hiring actual CEs are so selective, they either require masters degree or 5-10 years experience in the field. So the chances for someone like me with just a bachelors and no prior real work experience to get hired are pretty slim. I'd rather be doing something related to my field but a job is a job and you have to make money somehow.

[CrAz3D]

I also agree with CrAz3D that it's stupid having to do pre-law, or some undergraduate degree, prior to law.  I also think the same about pre-med.  Yes, I can see cases where it might be useful -- more maturity, more confidence in the ultimate 'medical career' decision, etc.  But it mostly ends up as people wasting 4 years of their lives -- and a lot of government/university money --  trying to 'play the system' to enhance their chances of admission, ultimately taking a bunch of bullshit courses, and learning more about how to become insincere and vacuous than about anything that would enrich their lives.

It's isnt that you have to do pre-law...you can do anything so long as you graduate with a bachelor's degree (yeah, leisure studies...if that existed).

Again, the entire system of education is 100% a fucking scam.  You get very little out of it, but are required to pay out the ass just for a shitty piece of paper that says you amount to something...then you enter the real world and learn how to do your job.  Universities have nothing to do with "pursuit of knowledge."

[CrAz3D]

Interesting follow-up questions for yall:  (1) What did you paid?  (2) Was it worth it?

My undergrad was "free."  New Mexico pays for undergrad for all NM high school grads that go directly to a NM university and maintain a 2.5.  Money comes from our lottery.  So was it worth it?  No.  Even though my tuition and (most) fees were paid, I still had to buy books, and my "education" was surely not worth it.

Law school at Texas Tech is about $12k per semester.  I figure it will only be "worth it" if I can start working somewhere around $80k per year.  I'm gonna be honest, while I do enjoy law, I am not going into law to help the fucking tree dwellers that cant help themselves.  With approx $120k graduating debt, I need a friggin job.

[Sidoh]

I also agree with CrAz3D that it's stupid having to do pre-law, or some undergraduate degree, prior to law.  I also think the same about pre-med.  Yes, I can see cases where it might be useful -- more maturity, more confidence in the ultimate 'medical career' decision, etc.  But it mostly ends up as people wasting 4 years of their lives -- and a lot of government/university money --  trying to 'play the system' to enhance their chances of admission, ultimately taking a bunch of bullshit courses, and learning more about how to become insincere and vacuous than about anything that would enrich their lives.

It's isnt that you have to do pre-law...you can do anything so long as you graduate with a bachelor's degree (yeah, leisure studies...if that existed).

Again, the entire system of education is 100% a fucking scam.  You get very little out of it, but are required to pay out the ass just for a shitty piece of paper that says you amount to something...then you enter the real world and learn how to do your job.  Universities have nothing to do with "pursuit of knowledge."

Speak for yourself, mr. liberal arts major.

[Rule]

Interesting follow-up questions for yall:  (1) What did you paid?  (2) Was it worth it?

Well judging from how you formulated (1), I guess your answer to (2) would be 'no' .

Seriously though, my point is that (ideally) you shouldn't be paying for a piece of paper.  Ideally the priority shouldn't be getting a job and making money.  That's not what academics is supposed to be about.  

Yes, it's nice to be employable, and to make money.  It's something worth thinking about.  I'm glad that I didn't become a philosophy major in my sophomore year, which I seriously considered -- it's more of a dead end than math and physics, at least in my situation (and in retrospect I don't think I would have liked it more).  Unless you're already rich you have to be somewhat strategic.  But it would be a bit uplifting to see more people take a genuine interest in some subject and go to university to learn more about that subject.  I want to remember my undergraduate years as a meaningful experience where I learned useful things and improved as a person, not as some way to get a job.  We only have one life (so it seems ).

Here's an interesting question:  Hypothetically, if you were guaranteed that you would make the same amount of money regardless, would you have gone to university?  And if so, would you have studied something different?

[Sidoh]

Here's an interesting question:  Hypothetically, if you were guaranteed that you would make the same amount of money regardless, would you have gone to university?  And if so, would you have studied something different?

That is an interesting question.

For me, "definitely" is an appropriate answer.  I love learning, and I think I'd supply the same reason for attending university classes that you supplied earlier: I don't think I'd have the discipline to learn something like math or computer science on my own, and university gave me the structure I needed.

I don't think I would've studied anything different.  If anything, I would've studied more.  I studied math and computer science, and regretfully left behind physics.  I would've loved to completed more coursework in physics, and I think it's a shame I didn't get the chance to do so.

Computer science is definitely the field which interests me most.  I think that this is because it's just the right balance of theory and application for me.  Math is often too abstract to be interesting in the long term, and things like physics and biology are often too empirical for my liking.

[Falcon]

Here's an interesting question:  Hypothetically, if you were guaranteed that you would make the same amount of money regardless, would you have gone to university?  And if so, would you have studied something different?

I would still have went to college, but I definitely would've picked another major, something that doesn't require me to study my ass off all the time and still barely pass. I would go to college to have fun and meet people, taking less intense courses.

[while1]

My undergrad wasn't "free" per se, my parents paid for my tuition and fees, and with that came plenty of sacrifices when it came to decisions my parents had to make when raising my sisters and I.  But I wouldn't have had it any other way.  I was responsible for paying for my books and essentially I paid for my room and board all but my freshman year (of course I didn't have to, I did out of gratitude and because the opportunity to do so presented itself).

I don't take for granted my graduating without debt, with no student loans.  It's a shame that so many do, or compromise their aspirations because of the financial burden higher education requires.  That's why if I ever have children, I will be sure to afford my child/children with the same opportunities that I have been fortunate to be given.  Being adopted, it's hard to imagine how vastly different my life would be had my birth mother decided to keep me as an unwed mother in Zergland... or abandon me in an alley... or worse.

I always saw college as the optimal path, I knew what I wanted to major in by the time I was a junior in HS.  To me, college was never a question.  I've often thought that if I were to ever win the lottery, I'd casually be a lifetime student for the rest of my life.  I'd pursue bachelors degrees in anything that interests me because without the financial anxiety, pressure to graduate, fear of failure, etc. I could pursue intellectual growth at my leisure.

[CrAz3D]

Interesting follow-up questions for yall:  (1) What did you paid?  (2) Was it worth it?

Well judging from how you formulated (1), I guess your answer to (2) would be 'no' .

haha...I had it as "what did you pay?" or something, and changed it...oops?  haha

[work,] That's not what academics is supposed to be about.

So then universities should be free...?

I always am amused by "liberal arts" students who graduate with an English degree, dont want to teach, bitch about loans, and then cant find jobs.




as for your hypo, if I could make the same amount (in whatever career I wanted), then yeah...fuck college.  I never learned shit (about my degree) from going to class; I learned about shit from reading on my own.  If I want to learn something, I'll do it.  So I guess in that regard, I might take a few classes, but college can go fuck itself with all its rules of "you MUST take this, that, and the other" and the red tape.

/I'm slightly bitter about wasting time learning very little I guess?

[nslay]

I don't typically like to discuss my University career ... I'm just very private.
I went to FSU for my undergraduate and majored in Pure Math and minored in Computer Science. For a while, I was a double major with my other major being Actuarial Science. I saw it as a backup job lest I was unable to find a job. However, although very lucrative, I didn't find it sufficiently interesting to pursue and I also did poorly in the Financial Accounting course.  Inspired by Yoni and personal interests, I went to University with Pure Math in mind. I want to be a research professor and looked to Pure Math initially. Unfortunately, after several conversations with Pure and Applied Math faculty as well as graduate students, I found Pure Math to be a poor choice for research. It's very difficult to find a research position for Pure Math and very difficult to get funding. Even though I majored in Pure Math, I opted to take mostly applied courses such as PDEs and Numerical Analysis. My only true Pure Math course was Abstract Algebra. Everything else was universally fundamental to mathematics.

One of my main motivations for picking FSU was a Florida Bright Futures Scholarship. It paid 75% of my tuition for four years. The other 25% I helped cover by working at the Math Help Center. Whatever I couldn't afford, my father covered. FSU also advertised opportunities in undergraduate research which is another factor in my choice of this University. I had many opportunities to work as an undergraduate researcher. I saw my first opportunity to work on Chaos Theory related work ... however, despite my impressions of the field, I didn't find it very interesting and also didn't recognize the opportunity I was given. During my junior year, I took DIS Numerical Analysis II and developed part of a fluid code for breaking waves ... Unfortunately, I never finished it and it was way over my head.  I was also given the opportunity to work on fluid-related research in Japan for two weeks (again, way over my head). The professor who administered my DIS referred me to some big shot professor who offered me an RA position. I gave up my job as a Math Help Center assistant and worked for him. This professor works mainly with PhD students and Post Docs and had unrealistic expectations initially. While working for him, I worked on his variant of Monte Carlo quadrature as well as Model Aggregation for Hurricane Prediction using Evidence Theory (his Post Doc's work).

This former adviser of mine was affiliated with the School of Computational Science (which later became Department of Scientific Computing).  Computational Science And Engineering, not to be confused with Computer Science, is a [newer] field that specializes in numerical computation. This involves elements of Applied Math and Computer Science. Computational Scientists have an intimate understanding of computer architectures, data structures and algorithms, data and task parallelism, numerical stability and accuracy, and numerical algorithms as well as the mathematical theory that backs it. Most Computational Scientists tend to specialize in fluid dynamics (at least here).  Anyway, I chose to stay at FSU as a Computational Science PhD student. Unfortunately, I did not work well with my former adviser, nor did I share his interests and so I switched advisers. My current adviser is a Computer Vision/Machine Learning expert and I primarily work on Machine Learning research. With regard to Computer Vision, I have dabbled in Face Detection and Lymph Node detection.

One of the perks of this field is that I get to play with both math and HPC technology. I have written applications that run on everything from multi core machines (40 core), GPUs, all the way to super computing clusters. I love the mix of math and computers in my work! I most especially love making things very fast and numerically stable and accurate.

This has been one of the best times in my life! I love the work and I hope that I can find a research position somewhere in the near future!

P.S. As a graduate student of a science field, my tuition is pretty much waived and I receive a stipend for living expenses.

[deadly7]

I suppose I can now actually respond to this thread with a story that only a handful of x86ers know.

I started full-time college as a junior in high school because my school didn't offer the right courses for me and, most importantly, was overrun with douchebags. Because of my upbringing and interests, I wanted to be an MD. All my previous teachers thought it would be  a good academic fit, and it was what occupied my brain since childhood. I started my college tenure intending to get a BS in neuroscience. After a couple of biology classes in which all I did was memorize things, I got irritated. After exclaiming "Fuck it" and throwing my hands up to the heavens, it had already been two full years.

The nice part was that those two years were tuition-covered by the state of Minnesota's wonderful PSEO program. During this time I started doing my first University research (as a lab bitch -- er, "data analyst") and started networking with people that are still my closest friends. In comes my official undergrad career, in which I started as a BS in biomedical engineering. I looked through the required courses, and despite a strong interest in Chemistry and synthesis/materials science, I didn't want to go through all the other prerequisites that would never have grasped my interest. I knew I had to switch. But to what?

This past summer (2010) I switched into the Computer Science program. After breezing through Scheme and Java while gaining official exposure to data structures and algorithms that I would not have picked up otherwise, I knew CS was going to be the best fit for me.

I originally intended a math double major, but after taking a basic proof class I realized I hated it. I can't write "for every n in N" every line, I have better shit to worry about. Additionally, the math that was being taught was just "memorize these proofs and regurgitate these theorems", nothing about the logical approach one should take in dealing with math issues.

CS instead let me blend my love for math and computers and actually manages to keep my interest. I've gone to almost all my lectures, which I have an absolutely dysmal record of doing. The joy that you get from solving a complex problem or debugging a piece of code is unbeatable. Additionally, because I'm so far "ahead" in my university career, I have lots of fre etime to take courses I want. Instead of a math double major, I will be getting a minor in math and probably a second minor in chemistry.

Will I do grad school? I'm not sure. Research and being a professor/teacher sounds interesting, but not with how the country is set up to "reward" those that choose an educational vocation. Will I work in industry? Doubtful. I work as a systems admin and do day-to-day programming for an on-campus department where I deal with all kinds of server issues (both from a distributed computational cluster standpoint and from your run-of-the-mill LAMP/etc servers). It's interesting, but the IT field is going to be absolutely dysmal to work in. With the advent of cheap labor coming in combined with the cluelessness of managers that think IT is just another high-level secretary, it's a hard road.

Still, I have two years (and a semester) to figure out what I want to do, so I'm in no rush.

[Sidoh]

I originally intended a math double major, but after taking a basic proof class I realized I hated it. I can't write "for every n in N" every line, I have better shit to worry about. Additionally, the math that was being taught was just "memorize these proofs and regurgitate these theorems", nothing about the logical approach one should take in dealing with math issues.

Yeah, that's not what math is supposed to be like.  Good math courses are the ones that give you a few tools to work with and then make you solve problems on your own.

Don't assume that you'd hate math just because you had one bad introductory course...

Will I work in industry? Doubtful. I work as a systems admin and do day-to-day programming for an on-campus department where I deal with all kinds of server issues (both from a distributed computational cluster standpoint and from your run-of-the-mill LAMP/etc servers). It's interesting, but the IT field is going to be absolutely dysmal to work in. With the advent of cheap labor coming in combined with the cluelessness of managers that think IT is just another high-level secretary, it's a hard road.

Still, I have two years (and a semester) to figure out what I want to do, so I'm in no rush.

That's a terrible sample of potential careers for a computer science student/graduate.  IT is immensely different than software engineering, which is greatly different than industrial research.  Just because you don't like being an IT guy doesn't mean you wouldn't like working in industry.

I couldn't work in IT either.  I don't find it nearly as intellectually stimulating as the other sorts of work I've done.  It's interesting, but it's not full of mind-bendingly difficult problems.

Definitely do some internships at companies doing non-IT work before you graduate.  Get an idea of what you like and you don't like before you have to make a decision that's going to affect more than your summer!

[deadly7]

Yeah, that's not what math is supposed to be like.  Good math courses are the ones that give you a few tools to work with and then make you solve problems on your own.

Don't assume that you'd hate math just because you had one bad introductory course...

To be fair, the class was called "Sequences, Series, and Foundations of Mathematics" so I don't know that it was intended to be a logic/proofs course. That's how the semester started, but the logic aspect was gone after we covered induction. Then it was just rote memorization. My grade dropped significantly after that because I stopped giving a shit.

That's a terrible sample of potential careers for a computer science student/graduate.  IT is immensely different than software engineering, which is greatly different than industrial research.  Just because you don't like being an IT guy doesn't mean you wouldn't like working in industry.

I like being an IT guy, just not how undervalued IT is. I enjoy my job as it is right now. I just can't see myself sitting in front of a computer ad infinitum, if that makes any sense. Software engineering isn't something I envision myself doing either. I haven't done any computer science related research, but to graduate with distinction I will need to do so. I think when I experience that I'll be able to figure out if I want to do a CS-related job.

Also, from what I've seen, the pay sucks and management treats you like shit anyway. A field in which raises commensurate with experience/skill or advancement only come if you constantly leave companies doesn't sound like a fun life.

[Joe]

Also, from what I've seen, the pay sucks and management treats you like shit anyway. A field in which raises commensurate with experience/skill or advancement only come if you constantly leave companies doesn't sound like a fun life.

It's becoming pretty viable to work for yourself. I'm too lazy right now to write an essay, but check out these guys:
http://twitter.com/majicdave
http://twitter.com/bradlarson

[Sidoh]

To be fair, the class was called "Sequences, Series, and Foundations of Mathematics" so I don't know that it was intended to be a logic/proofs course. That's how the semester started, but the logic aspect was gone after we covered induction. Then it was just rote memorization. My grade dropped significantly after that because I stopped giving a shit.

Yeah, that's not how a good math class should be.  Pure math is all about abstract thought and solving difficult problems.  Sure, you'll have to know definitions and some theorems, but none of that (beyond the definitions and axioms, I suppose) should be done by memorization.  You can really only excel in math if you truly understand the material.

I like being an IT guy, just not how undervalued IT is. I enjoy my job as it is right now. I just can't see myself sitting in front of a computer ad infinitum, if that makes any sense. Software engineering isn't something I envision myself doing either. I haven't done any computer science related research, but to graduate with distinction I will need to do so. I think when I experience that I'll be able to figure out if I want to do a CS-related job.

Also, from what I've seen, the pay sucks and management treats you like shit anyway. A field in which raises commensurate with experience/skill or advancement only come if you constantly leave companies doesn't sound like a fun life.

I suppose I can understand that.  Research has definitely been my favorite gig so far, but I'm trying something a little different this summer, so we'll see.

Seriously, though, you really should get out there and apply for some internships!  Recruiting season isn't over yet!

[Ender]

I suppose I can now actually respond to this thread with a story that only a handful of x86ers know.

I started full-time college as a junior in high school because my school didn't offer the right courses for me and, most importantly, was overrun with douchebags. Because of my upbringing and interests, I wanted to be an MD. All my previous teachers thought it would be  a good academic fit, and it was what occupied my brain since childhood. I started my college tenure intending to get a BS in neuroscience. After a couple of biology classes in which all I did was memorize things, I got irritated. After exclaiming "Fuck it" and throwing my hands up to the heavens, it had already been two full years.

The nice part was that those two years were tuition-covered by the state of Minnesota's wonderful PSEO program. During this time I started doing my first University research (as a lab bitch -- er, "data analyst") and started networking with people that are still my closest friends. In comes my official undergrad career, in which I started as a BS in biomedical engineering. I looked through the required courses, and despite a strong interest in Chemistry and synthesis/materials science, I didn't want to go through all the other prerequisites that would never have grasped my interest. I knew I had to switch. But to what?

This past summer (2010) I switched into the Computer Science program. After breezing through Scheme and Java while gaining official exposure to data structures and algorithms that I would not have picked up otherwise, I knew CS was going to be the best fit for me.

I originally intended a math double major, but after taking a basic proof class I realized I hated it. I can't write "for every n in N" every line, I have better shit to worry about. Additionally, the math that was being taught was just "memorize these proofs and regurgitate these theorems", nothing about the logical approach one should take in dealing with math issues.

CS instead let me blend my love for math and computers and actually manages to keep my interest. I've gone to almost all my lectures, which I have an absolutely dysmal record of doing. The joy that you get from solving a complex problem or debugging a piece of code is unbeatable. Additionally, because I'm so far "ahead" in my university career, I have lots of fre etime to take courses I want. Instead of a math double major, I will be getting a minor in math and probably a second minor in chemistry.

Will I do grad school? I'm not sure. Research and being a professor/teacher sounds interesting, but not with how the country is set up to "reward" those that choose an educational vocation. Will I work in industry? Doubtful. I work as a systems admin and do day-to-day programming for an on-campus department where I deal with all kinds of server issues (both from a distributed computational cluster standpoint and from your run-of-the-mill LAMP/etc servers). It's interesting, but the IT field is going to be absolutely dysmal to work in. With the advent of cheap labor coming in combined with the cluelessness of managers that think IT is just another high-level secretary, it's a hard road.

Still, I have two years (and a semester) to figure out what I want to do, so I'm in no rush.

You should look into bioinformatics. I was told by a medical researcher that it's a big deal these days. It pays a lot, and it's very interesting. I don't know much about it, but I know that it mixes biology, math, and computer science.

It might be something that you study in grad school as opposed to undergrad. In that case, your background in bio and your major in CS will be a huge plus for you if you end up applying for it.