Bin Laden down

[CrAz3D]

That's all she wrote? Symbolic victory? Whatever.

[iago]

Meaningless, but I predict this will be a big++ deal.

People are a lot better at being afraid of things when they can put a face on it. The government made him into the face of terrorism, which made it easier for people to be afraid of terrorism. Ohwell

[Joe]

al-Qaeda #1 is dead. al-Qaeda #2 is now #1, and we're just as far away from finding him as we were on 9/11.

It's a symbolic victory, but we haven't won anything.

[Armin]

Meaningless, but I predict this will be a big++ deal.

big++ deal. prepare to stomach every shithead's interpretation of this meaningless peace of news.

Conspiracy theories initiate.

"I wonder how much this little Obama re-election sideshow just cost the American people."

oh world, please spare me this time.

[deadly7]

GOP = GFP come 2012 (Grand Fucked Party). Unless Obama's caught murdering someone with his bare hands, he's got this in the bag.

[Chavo]

I first found out about an hour ago.  Since, then, 11 different people have told me (not including this thread).  I am officially tired of this newsline.

[Sidoh]

Meaningless, but I predict this will be a big++ deal.

HOLY SHIT, YOU'RE A PROPHET.

[Joe]

[Rule]

This is the kind of the thing where if Republicans do it, people are ECSTATIC.  (e.g. Saddam Hussein).  If Obama does it, people go... hmm, whatever, lets find a way to criticize him for telling us this, because we don't like Obama. It's because the  "we want revenge" people are mostly Republicans (or against Obama anyway), and they will not like Obama no matter what he does.  They can take a piece of news that would normally make them really happy, and find a way to criticise it terribly if Obama's name is attached to it.  There's also the fact that Republicans are brilliant at PR and Democrats are not.  I am just speculating though, it will be interesting to see the general reaction.

Having said that, my opinion is that this is objectively meaningless.  Osama was just like 'Goldstein' in 1984.  Despite what I've written above, I think this will help Obama's popularity, and it will help diffuse some of the stupid shit Republicans were flinging at him (though, as above, I don't think anyone who was previously convinced that Obama was a Muslim terrorist will be voting for him now that he has removed Osama, and a lot of people who would normally love this kind of thing will hypocritically not be impressed or even go out of their way to find fault with it).

[CrAz3D]

Where has anyone criticized obama for it?

That said, I saw this on Fark: http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6568249-we-think-that-bin-laden-death-photo-is-a-fake

[nslay]

I'm skeptical. Anyone have any evidence that we really killed him?

[iago]

My biggest criticism is that the war has caused over 100,000 deaths and $1 trillion to be spent. Was the price really worth it? And, it's not like the war's going to stop because of it.

My favourite quote from Twitter has been, "All right, he's dead, can we have our rights back now?"

Where has anyone criticized obama for it?

It was a prediction, not a fact.

[Rule]

I'm skeptical. Anyone have any evidence that we really killed him?

It would be a dumb thing to lie about.  If they hadn't actually killed him, wouldn't Osama be ecstatic to go and release another video to erode US credibility?

[nslay]

I'm skeptical. Anyone have any evidence that we really killed him?

It would be a dumb thing to lie about.  If they hadn't actually killed him, wouldn't Osama be ecstatic to go and release another video to erode US credibility?

If we're trying to locate him, maybe not.

This could be a political stunt for all we know. However, the Pentagon claims they have photos of his body and will release them eventually. Until then, all we have to go by are words.

[iago]

I'm skeptical. Anyone have any evidence that we really killed him?

It would be a dumb thing to lie about.  If they hadn't actually killed him, wouldn't Osama be ecstatic to go and release another video to erode US credibility?

Perhaps he's been dead for years?

[nslay]

Haha! That's funny!

[nslay]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I don't know why the media feel they are exempt from this simple rule. We've not been able to locate him for nearly decade. We thought we knew his location several times before. Hence, I have problems simply taking a reporter's word for it.

I'm also curious why we simply dumped his body into the ocean so quickly. Wouldn't there be autopsies and analysis to verify his identity? Wouldn't we also bring the body back to the US for further verification? The only people who have seen his body are the military. After all, this is the man who was the leader of an organization that conducted several terrorist attacks including 9/11.

That last detail wreaks of hoax until evidence suggests otherwise. Of course, no evidence has been provided. Whoever informed the press seems horribly irresponsible not to provide at least photos. But now that we have dumped his body into the ocean with the only witnesses being the military, even photos are questionable. There is no primary evidence what-so-ever. We can't even verify if its a hoax now. This is irresponsible and unscientific.

Doesn't anybody else take issue with that bit where we simply dumped his body into the ocean?

[Rule]

Wouldn't there be autopsies and analysis to verify his identity?

Apparently they have his sister's DNA, and DNA tests confirmed that whoever was killed was his sister's brother.

[iago]

I don't know why the media feel they are exempt from this simple rule. We've not been able to locate him for nearly decade. We thought we knew his location several times before. Hence, I have problems simply taking a reporter's word for it.

It wasn't he media who announced it, it was the president in an address last night.

I'm also curious why we simply dumped his body into the ocean so quickly. Wouldn't there be autopsies and analysis to verify his identity? Wouldn't we also bring the body back to the US for further verification? The only people who have seen his body are the military. After all, this is the man who was the leader of an organization that conducted several terrorist attacks including 9/11.

They took his DNA, and buried him in accordance with his religious beliefs. As I keep saying to people, we're supposed to be the good guys.

That last detail wreaks of hoax until evidence suggests otherwise. Of course, no evidence has been provided. Whoever informed the press seems horribly irresponsible not to provide at least photos. But now that we have dumped his body into the ocean with the only witnesses being the military, even photos are questionable. There is no primary evidence what-so-ever. We can't even verify if its a hoax now. This is irresponsible and unscientific.

Doesn't anybody else take issue with that bit where we simply dumped his body into the ocean?

The press doesn't have photos, the military does. They're debating releasing them.

Have you read any of the stories or watched the speech about what happened? If not, you should - it sounds like you're missing important bits.

[CrAz3D]

I like the buried at sea rationale. If he is somewhere on land, it might become a new target or attraction for nut jobs ... much like DisneyLand.

[nslay]

Wouldn't there be autopsies and analysis to verify his identity?

Apparently they have his sister's DNA, and DNA tests confirmed that whoever was killed was his sister's brother.

No third party verification. Where did they get the DNA? We'll never know for sure now.

[rabbit]

Wouldn't there be autopsies and analysis to verify his identity?

Apparently they have his sister's DNA, and DNA tests confirmed that whoever was killed was his sister's brother.

No third party verification. Where did they get the DNA? We'll never know for sure now.

His sister died in Boston not long ago.

Also, he was buried at sea in accordance with Islamic laws, which require a body to be buried no more than 1 day after death (buried part) and at sea because they didn't want his grave to become a shrine (at sea part).  At least that's what I've heard.

[nslay]

I don't know why the media feel they are exempt from this simple rule. We've not been able to locate him for nearly decade. We thought we knew his location several times before. Hence, I have problems simply taking a reporter's word for it.

It wasn't he media who announced it, it was the president in an address last night.

I'm also curious why we simply dumped his body into the ocean so quickly. Wouldn't there be autopsies and analysis to verify his identity? Wouldn't we also bring the body back to the US for further verification? The only people who have seen his body are the military. After all, this is the man who was the leader of an organization that conducted several terrorist attacks including 9/11.

They took his DNA, and buried him in accordance with his religious beliefs. As I keep saying to people, we're supposed to be the good guys.

I'm not convinced. We have a bad track record with humane treatment when it comes to terrorists and the military. I'd be somewhat surprised if we felt obligated to bury him in accordance to his religious beliefs.

Because there is no body, we can't verify that the DNA came from his body or from some other source, such as a hospital.

No third party verification. No peer review. No primary evidence. This stinks!

That last detail wreaks of hoax until evidence suggests otherwise. Of course, no evidence has been provided. Whoever informed the press seems horribly irresponsible not to provide at least photos. But now that we have dumped his body into the ocean with the only witnesses being the military, even photos are questionable. There is no primary evidence what-so-ever. We can't even verify if its a hoax now. This is irresponsible and unscientific.

Doesn't anybody else take issue with that bit where we simply dumped his body into the ocean?

The press doesn't have photos, the military does. They're debating releasing them.

Have you read any of the stories or watched the speech about what happened? If not, you should - it sounds like you're missing important bits.

There are no bits! We have an empty claim that we have killed one of the most difficult men to track.
Everything written is a bunch of hot air.

I'm skeptical. Anyone have any evidence that we really killed him?

It would be a dumb thing to lie about.  If they hadn't actually killed him, wouldn't Osama be ecstatic to go and release another video to erode US credibility?

If we're trying to locate him, maybe not.

This could be a political stunt for all we know. However, the Pentagon claims they have photos of his body and will release them eventually. Until then, all we have to go by are words.

[iago]

So what's the alternative?

1. That he's alive, and is going to say "nuh uh!"

2. That he's captured and being detained

3. That he was dead a long time ago

I'd say that 2. is most likely, but with wikileaks and everything I'm not sure they would take that kind of chance..

[nslay]

So what's the alternative?

1. That he's alive, and is going to say "nuh uh!"

2. That he's captured and being detained

3. That he was dead a long time ago

I'd say that 2. is most likely, but with wikileaks and everything I'm not sure they would take that kind of chance..

I really don't know. If we were to assume the claims were untrue, any of these 3 alternatives could be possible. Though with his supposed health problems, (3) might be more likely.

I have some hope that the Pentagon will at least release pictures at some point.

I just have trouble believing that we would quickly discard the body of one of the most notorious terrorist leaders because of his religious beliefs. This gesture is too good to be true! But it is entirely possible that criticism has galvanized the military to be more respectful of terrorists, even of Osama bin Laden! I would have thought the military would bring his body back for third parties to verify. Then they could bury him at sea. That's the responsible and scientific way to deal with someone so infamous.

If it's hoax, discarding the alleged evidence is a good way to prevent anyone from finding out.

[Sidoh]

They released some evidence:

http://imm.io/5mXI

Seriously though, who fucking cares.  I think it's disgusting that we're celebrating death.  I may have not liked the guy, but I don't think I'd want him dead.  What good does that do us?  It's not like there aren't hundreds of other like-minded individuals who are happy to take his place.

When I read the headline, all that went through my mind is:

AMERICA!  FUCK YEAH!
NOW LICK MY DICK AND SUCK ON MY BALLS

[CrAz3D]

I dont know if I read it in this thread, or another thread, but if he is alive, wouldnt he just release a new video saying "haha americans didnt kill me I still win body double!"

yeah....it was rule:

I'm skeptical. Anyone have any evidence that we really killed him?

It would be a dumb thing to lie about.  If they hadn't actually killed him, wouldn't Osama be ecstatic to go and release another video to erode US credibility?

and I dont very much care for nslay's response. Bin Laden has released many videos while we've been trying to find him.

[nslay]

I dont know if I read it in this thread, or another thread, but if he is alive, wouldnt he just release a new video saying "haha americans didnt kill me I still win body double!"

yeah....it was rule:

I'm skeptical. Anyone have any evidence that we really killed him?

It would be a dumb thing to lie about.  If they hadn't actually killed him, wouldn't Osama be ecstatic to go and release another video to erode US credibility?

and I dont very much care for nslay's response. Bin Laden has released many videos while we've been trying to find him.

Well, we'll see. Maybe he pre-recorded post-death videos to mess with our minds.

[Joe]

If they did a DNA test against his sister, wouldn't his brother also match? I'm no biologist but it can only check that the two specimens have the same parents, right?

[Armin]

This is the kind of the thing where if Republicans do it, people are ECSTATIC.  (e.g. Saddam Hussein).  If Obama does it, people go... hmm, whatever, lets find a way to criticize him for telling us this, because we don't like Obama. It's because the  "we want revenge" people are mostly Republicans (or against Obama anyway), and they will not like Obama no matter what he does.  They can take a piece of news that would normally make them really happy, and find a way to criticise it terribly if Obama's name is attached to it.  There's also the fact that Republicans are brilliant at PR and Democrats are not.  I am just speculating though, it will be interesting to see the general reaction.

All of this is plainly human nature, and republicans and democrats are equally human.

[while1]

This is the kind of the thing where if Republicans do it, people are ECSTATIC.  (e.g. Saddam Hussein).  If Obama does it, people go... hmm, whatever, lets find a way to criticize him for telling us this, because we don't like Obama. It's because the  "we want revenge" people are mostly Republicans (or against Obama anyway), and they will not like Obama no matter what he does.  They can take a piece of news that would normally make them really happy, and find a way to criticise it terribly if Obama's name is attached to it.  There's also the fact that Republicans are brilliant at PR and Democrats are not.  I am just speculating though, it will be interesting to see the general reaction.

Having said that, my opinion is that this is objectively meaningless.  Osama was just like 'Goldstein' in 1984.  Despite what I've written above, I think this will help Obama's popularity, and it will help diffuse some of the stupid shit Republicans were flinging at him (though, as above, I don't think anyone who was previously convinced that Obama was a Muslim terrorist will be voting for him now that he has removed Osama, and a lot of people who would normally love this kind of thing will hypocritically not be impressed or even go out of their way to find fault with it).

You're wrong about the general reaction, the general reaction was apparent since this morning- it's bipartisan celebration.  This isn't a Democrat or Republican issue- it's American.

When you have Cheney, normally a vocal opponent of Obama's foreign policy decisions, giving Obama and his administration mad props... people dancing in the streets, West Point cadets celebrating into the night (remember our military institutes tend to be composed of quite a bit of Republicans and critical of Obama- ask Towelie, he goes to one of said institutions)... it shows that this goes deeper than partisan politics.

[Sidoh]

If they did a DNA test against his sister, wouldn't his brother also match? I'm no biologist but it can only check that the two specimens have the same parents, right?

Mitochondrial DNA should match.

In any case, there exists a test that would confirm his identity given we trust the identity of his sister.

I just don't care though.  I don't see why anyone cares.  It sickens me that there are people celebrating any sort of death.  I see little difference in celebrating bin Laden's death and Taliban troops celebrating the death of an American soldier.  Both are disgusting.  Death is nothing to be happy about.

I think someone else in this thread said this, and I completely agree with it.  There's no objective benefit to bin Laden being dead (other than political popularity, maybe).  If anything, there are objective disadvantages.

[Sidoh]

‎"I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. [...] Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” - MLK

[while1]

Pffft, Sidoh is a carebear.

[Sidoh]

Coming from the guy with operationsmile.org in his signature, I'll take that as a complement.

[CrAz3D]

‎"I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. [...] Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” - MLK

I agree with this. That said, I still grinned when I heard he died. My instinctual self reacted, then my thoughtful self followed. I bet that is how it has gone for most people/will go.

[Sidoh]

‎"I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. [...] Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” - MLK

I agree with this. That said, I still grinned when I heard he died. My instinctual self reacted, then my thoughtful self followed. I bet that is how it has gone for most people/will go.

That's probably true.  I guess I was "interested" by the news, but at no point was I happy about it.

Apparently, the quote was falsely attributed to MLK.  Someone made it up and attributed it to him.  People have been blindly posting the copypasta (myself included) without checking that he actually said it.  Not that I care -- the words perfectly express my thoughts on the matter.

Someone unfriended me for posting that.  Pathetic.  People are barbaric idiots.

[Blaze]

Here is a supposed picture of Osama after the fight; warning: totally bloody and NSFW: http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8576/1304416878397.png

[CrAz3D]

People ARE "barbaric" (or human...). I cant be upset that some people are happy he died. I think his death is a good thing, but I'm just not that psyched.

[iago]

So what's the alternative?

1. That he's alive, and is going to say "nuh uh!"

2. That he's captured and being detained

3. That he was dead a long time ago

I'd say that 2. is most likely, but with wikileaks and everything I'm not sure they would take that kind of chance..

I really don't know. If we were to assume the claims were untrue, any of these 3 alternatives could be possible. Though with his supposed health problems, (3) might be more likely.

I have some hope that the Pentagon will at least release pictures at some point.

I just have trouble believing that we would quickly discard the body of one of the most notorious terrorist leaders because of his religious beliefs. This gesture is too good to be true! But it is entirely possible that criticism has galvanized the military to be more respectful of terrorists, even of Osama bin Laden! I would have thought the military would bring his body back for third parties to verify. Then they could bury him at sea. That's the responsible and scientific way to deal with someone so infamous.

If it's hoax, discarding the alleged evidence is a good way to prevent anyone from finding out.

Option 4: he was tortured/fucked up somehow (for who knows how long)

[iago]

For example:

[CrAz3D]

nice. haha.

[Joe]

Here is a supposed picture of Osama after the fight; warning: totally bloody and NSFW: http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8576/1304416878397.png

Looks dead to me.

[nslay]

So what's the alternative?

1. That he's alive, and is going to say "nuh uh!"

2. That he's captured and being detained

3. That he was dead a long time ago

I'd say that 2. is most likely, but with wikileaks and everything I'm not sure they would take that kind of chance..

I really don't know. If we were to assume the claims were untrue, any of these 3 alternatives could be possible. Though with his supposed health problems, (3) might be more likely.

I have some hope that the Pentagon will at least release pictures at some point.

I just have trouble believing that we would quickly discard the body of one of the most notorious terrorist leaders because of his religious beliefs. This gesture is too good to be true! But it is entirely possible that criticism has galvanized the military to be more respectful of terrorists, even of Osama bin Laden! I would have thought the military would bring his body back for third parties to verify. Then they could bury him at sea. That's the responsible and scientific way to deal with someone so infamous.

If it's hoax, discarding the alleged evidence is a good way to prevent anyone from finding out.

Option 4: he was tortured/fucked up somehow (for who knows how long)

We'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure they'll release something eventually.

The White House just changed the story a bit which does not reflect well on the currently empty claim.

Another oddity is that Saddam and his sons were embalmed and held for 11 days, granted they were not practicing Muslims. Osama was buried within 24 hours in accordance with his religious beliefs. But again, this gesture just seems too good to be true.

[iago]

Another oddity is that Saddam and his sons were embalmed and held for 11 days, granted they were not practicing Muslims. Osama was buried within 24 hours in accordance with his religious beliefs. But again, this gesture just seems too good to be true.

So they followed religious beliefs for somebody who was religious, but didn't even do it for somebody who wasn't? That's awfully suspicious...

[CrAz3D]

"Was it just part of the fog of war, with a clear account only available when those engaged in the mission are fully debriefed?"

There are soooo many people involved in this that I'd be surprised if there was only one story told. Ever play "telephone" as a kid?

[Falcon]

They're not going to release pictures, so I guess we just have to take their word for it as usual.

[Joe]

If they did a DNA test against his sister, wouldn't his brother also match? I'm no biologist but it can only check that the two specimens have the same parents, right?

Mitochondrial DNA should match.

In any case, there exists a test that would confirm his identity given we trust the identity of his sister.

I don't get it. According to the Wikipedia article on the Bin Laden family, Mohammed bin Laden had at least 54 children. Hamida al-Attas, Osama's mother only had one child with him, so he has no full siblings. Doesn't that mean that he would match his half-sister's DNA no better than their other 52 half-siblings?

[iago]

Noam Chomsky's take on the situation:
http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/2652/noam_chomsky_my_reaction_to_os/

Predictably against the usual sentiment. I love it!

[Sidoh]

Noam Chomsky's take on the situation:
http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/2652/noam_chomsky_my_reaction_to_os/

Predictably against the usual sentiment. I love it!

That's Chomsky for you.

I read this last week sometime.  I don't agree with everything he says, but the sentiment of his words is something I can uphold.

For example --
I don't know about Muslim funeral traditions, but it seems like throwing Bush's body into the ocean would be a gesture of disrespect.  I don't think that's necessarily the case with bin Laden.

[iago]

For example --
I don't know about Muslim funeral traditions, but it seems like throwing Bush's body into the ocean would be a gesture of disrespect.  I don't think that's necessarily the case with bin Laden.

That may be true, but if a foreign government came over, assassinated Bush at his house/ranch/whatever, took his body, and made their decision about what to do with his body without his family's input, that would be a Bad Thing.

[Sidoh]

For example --
I don't know about Muslim funeral traditions, but it seems like throwing Bush's body into the ocean would be a gesture of disrespect.  I don't think that's necessarily the case with bin Laden.

That may be true, but if a foreign government came over, assassinated Bush at his house/ranch/whatever, took his body, and made their decision about what to do with his body without his family's input, that would be a Bad Thing.

Bad Thing^TM?

Probably, but I don't think there would be anything like the outpour of violent threats made by bin Laden's followers.

I don't think that bin Laden and Bush are analogous in any sort of strong way.  There are too many differences to make this analogy anything other than a mildly interesting thought experiment.

[iago]

Bad Thing^TM?

Probably, but I don't think there would be anything like the outpour of violent threats made by bin Laden's followers.

I don't think that bin Laden and Bush are analogous in any sort of strong way.  There are too many differences to make this analogy anything other than a mildly interesting thought experiment.

I think there would be far, far more threats. People already say 'nuke the middle east', I can't imagine what they'd say if a middle eastern government decided to assassinate an American citizen on American soil, then dispose of the body themselves.

I agree that it's difficult to compare - most Muslim people hated OBL as much as Americans. It's because of him that people want to nuke them.

[Sidoh]

Very few of those people actually think that, and those that do could probably be convinced otherwise with a short conversation.

It's different in the case of bin Laden's followers.

There is ... a religion of peace in this world, but it's not Islam. To call Islam a religion of peace ... is completely delusional ...

The problem is not religious extremism, because extremism is not a problem if your core beliefs are truly non-violent. The problem isn't fundamentalism ... the only problem with Islamic fundamentalism are the fundamentals of Islam ...

Osama bin Laden ... is ... giving a very plausible version of the faith ...

Osama bin Laden ... is giving a truly straightforward version of Islam, and you really have to be an acrobat to figure out how he is distorting the faith.

-- Sam Harris

[deadly7]

Very few of those people actually think that, and those that do could probably be convinced otherwise with a short conversation.

You haven't met extreme bigots have you? Ask drake to chime in, seeing as to how he's in Texas. But even here in Minnesnowta I've run into plenty of them.

[Sidoh]

Very few of those people actually think that, and those that do could probably be convinced otherwise with a short conversation.

You haven't met extreme bigots have you? Ask drake to chime in, seeing as to how he's in Texas. But even here in Minnesnowta I've run into plenty of them.

Like I said, I think sense could be talked into most of them.  Violent dogma doesn't underly their operative beliefs.  They're just stupid.  And they lack the drive to do anything.

I'm not saying they aren't out there.  They are -- I'm sure of it.  I just don't think that they're commonplace.  I also think their violent tendencies stem from ignorance.  I don't think this is the case with Muslim fundamentalists.

Also, I'm criticizing the religion, not the people.  Okay, I'm criticizing the people too.  Fuck them.

[CrAz3D]

Bad Thing^TM?

Probably, but I don't think there would be anything like the outpour of violent threats made by bin Laden's followers.

I don't think that bin Laden and Bush are analogous in any sort of strong way.  There are too many differences to make this analogy anything other than a mildly interesting thought experiment.

I think there would be far, far more threats. People already say 'nuke the middle east', I can't imagine what they'd say if a middle eastern government decided to assassinate an American citizen on American soil, then dispose of the body themselves.

I agree that it's difficult to compare - most Muslim people hated OBL as much as Americans. It's because of him that people want to nuke them.

OBL isnt the leader of the Middle East, so it wouldnt look the same. It'd be more like (I'd guess) someone in the ME shooting Fred Phelps or some other nutjob fanatic. I think we'd all be OK with it.

[iago]

Bad Thing^TM?

Probably, but I don't think there would be anything like the outpour of violent threats made by bin Laden's followers.

I don't think that bin Laden and Bush are analogous in any sort of strong way.  There are too many differences to make this analogy anything other than a mildly interesting thought experiment.

I think there would be far, far more threats. People already say 'nuke the middle east', I can't imagine what they'd say if a middle eastern government decided to assassinate an American citizen on American soil, then dispose of the body themselves.

I agree that it's difficult to compare - most Muslim people hated OBL as much as Americans. It's because of him that people want to nuke them.

OBL isnt the leader of the Middle East, so it wouldnt look the same. It'd be more like (I'd guess) someone in the ME shooting Fred Phelps or some other nutjob fanatic. I think we'd all be OK with it.

I specifically said "a US citizen", not "Bush" for that reason.

But yeah, even if the Iranian government, say, sent a strikeforce into the US to assassinate Fred Phelps (or whoever), I'm sure people would be pissed. EXTREMELY pissed.

[dark_drake]

Very few of those people actually think that, and those that do could probably be convinced otherwise with a short conversation.

You haven't met extreme bigots have you? Ask drake to chime in, seeing as to how he's in Texas. But even here in Minnesnowta I've run into plenty of them.

This here's Amerikuh. If you're not a white, meat-eating Christian, you're going to make a lot of us good, honest folk uncomfortable. Also, CrAz3D lives in Texas, too. And to be fair, I'm in ultra-liberal hippie land.

[Sidoh]

Bad Thing^TM?

Probably, but I don't think there would be anything like the outpour of violent threats made by bin Laden's followers.

I don't think that bin Laden and Bush are analogous in any sort of strong way.  There are too many differences to make this analogy anything other than a mildly interesting thought experiment.

I think there would be far, far more threats. People already say 'nuke the middle east', I can't imagine what they'd say if a middle eastern government decided to assassinate an American citizen on American soil, then dispose of the body themselves.

I agree that it's difficult to compare - most Muslim people hated OBL as much as Americans. It's because of him that people want to nuke them.

OBL isnt the leader of the Middle East, so it wouldnt look the same. It'd be more like (I'd guess) someone in the ME shooting Fred Phelps or some other nutjob fanatic. I think we'd all be OK with it.

I specifically said "a US citizen", not "Bush" for that reason.

But yeah, even if the Iranian government, say, sent a strikeforce into the US to assassinate Fred Phelps (or whoever), I'm sure people would be pissed. EXTREMELY pissed.

You seriously think so?  I don't.  People would probably be creeped the fuck out, but I don't think they'd be seriously pissed.

Very few of those people actually think that, and those that do could probably be convinced otherwise with a short conversation.

You haven't met extreme bigots have you? Ask drake to chime in, seeing as to how he's in Texas. But even here in Minnesnowta I've run into plenty of them.

This here's Amerikuh. If you're not a white, meat-eating Christian, you're going to make a lot of us good, honest folk uncomfortable. Also, CrAz3D lives in Texas, too. And to be fair, I'm in ultra-liberal hippie land.

Austin is a dot of blue in a sea of red, as they say. right?

[CrAz3D]

Austin is one of the more liberal cities in the US...in one of the more conservative states in the US. Yeah. Austin is way out of place. I'm pretty sure most people from Lubbock (I'm in west texas...cattle country/cotton farms) would mock the big city liberals in Austin.

[nslay]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/12/osama-bin-laden-killer-tractor
LOL