Stupid GUI designs

[nslay]

One of the most irritating aspects of Windows and Windows-wannabe Window managers is the 'Minimize', 'Maximize' and 'Close' button tightly bundled together at the top right (top left for OS X). Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to group non-critical windowing operations such as 'Minimize' and 'Maximize' with critical operations such as 'Close'? Surely no one clumsy or in a hurry will accidentally press the 'Close' button when they really meant to maximize or minimize, will they?

Why can't 'Close' be on the top left and 'Minimize' and 'Maximize' on the top right? That would make it really hard to press 'Close' by mistake. 'Close' really deserves some care and respect.

Good thing some applications are well written to ask you if you want to save your work or if you really want to exit.

Today I ran into another dumb GUI design, Command Prompt's drop down menu keeps 'Close' immediately above 'Edit' ... you know, in case you wanted to 'Mark' the command prompt to copy text or 'Paste' text into the command prompt. Except, when you're clumsy or in a hurry, you might click on 'Close' when you really wanted to click 'Edit.'

Seriously, why is this still an issue? Why is this really bad design continually propagated in so many other windowing systems?

[Sidoh]

One of the most irritating aspects of Windows and Windows-wannabe Window managers is the 'Minimize', 'Maximize' and 'Close' button tightly bundled together at the top right (top left for OS X). Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to group non-critical windowing operations such as 'Minimize' and 'Maximize' with critical operations such as 'Close'? Surely no one clumsy or in a hurry will accidentally press the 'Close' button when they really meant to maximize or minimize, will they?

Why can't 'Close' be on the top left and 'Minimize' and 'Maximize' on the top right? That would make it really hard to press 'Close' by mistake. 'Close' really deserves some care and respect.

Good thing some applications are well written to ask you if you want to save your work or if you really want to exit.

Today I ran into another dumb GUI design, Command Prompt's drop down menu keeps 'Close' immediately above 'Edit' ... you know, in case you wanted to 'Mark' the command prompt to copy text or 'Paste' text into the command prompt. Except, when you're clumsy or in a hurry, you might click on 'Close' when you really wanted to click 'Edit.'

Seriously, why is this still an issue? Why is this really bad design continually propagated in so many other windowing systems?

Heh, I hadn't really thought about it much before, but I'll agree. It's pretty stupid. I very rarely use the close button, although that could be because I'm a process hoarder and don't close anything.

I've definitely pressed Cmd+Q meaning to press Cmd+Tab a few times and lost some work. That was not fun.

[MyndFyre]

Who uses the buttons anyway?  Alt+Space, (N|X|R) for minimize, maximize, restore; Alt+F4 for close (or Alt+F, X in many applications with a traditional menu).  Command prompt: Alt+Space, E, K (for mark), then Enter to copy once it's marked.

[CrAz3D]

Just be careful with what you do???

[iago]

I haven't used a window manager with a minimize/maximize button forever. I hate maximized apps.

What *I* like, though, is consistency and clearness. For the odd time I have to use a mac, I never remember which of those little circles in the wrong place is minimize and which his maximize. Annoying++. I like it when they're labeled and don't move around (what's so wrong with top-right?)

[Sidoh]

I haven't used a window manager with a minimize/maximize button forever. I hate maximized apps.

What *I* like, though, is consistency and clearness. For the odd time I have to use a mac, I never remember which of those little circles in the wrong place is minimize and which his maximize. Annoying++. I like it when they're labeled and don't move around (what's so wrong with top-right?)

I don't think anything is wrong with top-right, but I don't think that one should say what Windows does is the standard ;p

[Blaze]

The windows standard exit is top right.  If you make a windows app, it should follow this, unless you have a really good reason not to.  The new firefox dev tools window thing has the close on the top left and it drives me mad. 

[MyndFyre]

I don't think anything is wrong with top-right, but I don't think that one should say what Windows does is the standard ;p

Really?  That's like saying we should say that "Driving on the right is the standard in America." 

I hate maximized apps.

Really?  I love them.  I hate that I can't get that on OS X usually, except for browsers.

[iago]

I haven't used a window manager with a minimize/maximize button forever. I hate maximized apps.

What *I* like, though, is consistency and clearness. For the odd time I have to use a mac, I never remember which of those little circles in the wrong place is minimize and which his maximize. Annoying++. I like it when they're labeled and don't move around (what's so wrong with top-right?)

I don't think anything is wrong with top-right, but I don't think that one should say what Windows does is the standard ;p

It's the standard if they did it first and for much, much longer.

I hate maximized apps.

Really?  I love them.  I hate that I can't get that on OS X usually, except for browsers.

I have a bunch of friends who use the Awesome window manager, which maximizes (or tiles) everything. That would make me crazy. I never maximize windows, I like them to be certain sizes and shapes and overlap in odd ways. I'm kinda weird.

[Blaze]

I really like in Gnome2 when you go to move a window, you can move something to the edge of something else easily instead of just automatically putting it ontop like Windows does.  I'm explaining this really poorly, but Gnome makes it easier to line things up beside each other rather than putting windows on top of each other.  I like that.

I can't stand browsers not full screened.  Almost any other app is fine, but browsers need the true resolution.

[iago]

I really like in Gnome2 when you go to move a window, you can move something to the edge of something else easily instead of just automatically putting it ontop like Windows does.  I'm explaining this really poorly, but Gnome makes it easier to line things up beside each other rather than putting windows on top of each other.  I like that.

I can't stand browsers not full screened.  Almost any other app is fine, but browsers need the true resolution.

I think that's called clipping?

[deadly7]

The windows standard exit is top right.  If you make a windows app, it should follow this, unless you have a really good reason not to.  The new firefox dev tools window thing has the close on the top left and it drives me mad. 

Firefox is a clusterfuck well beyond where they put the close button. I'm seriously contemplating shifting to Opera (since I don't want Chrome).

[nslay]

The windows standard exit is top right.  If you make a windows app, it should follow this, unless you have a really good reason not to.  The new firefox dev tools window thing has the close on the top left and it drives me mad. 

Probably because many people complained that they accidentally killed their browser window several times.

The "standard" is stupid. It lacks careful thought and consideration. Dangerous buttons like 'Close' should have never been grouped with non-critical windowing buttons.

After using various windowing systems, you should start to wonder why Windows 7 uses the same windowing as Windows 95. This isn't 1994 when people were unfamiliar with computers and we transitioned from 3.1 to a radically different Windows 95 ... there's no reason for a 'Start' button and a myriad of other stupid artifacts left from Windows 95 to assist clueless people. The Windows interface is ancient with no future redesign in sight.

In my opinion, the task bar should go away, the tray should become a larger dock, and the windowing system should support tiling.

The Task Bar
The task bar works well if you have relatively few windows. When you have too many windows then it becomes tedious to search through the task bar.
It would be nice if windows could be shaded (i.e. pulled up like a lamp shade) or iconified. Iconfication is a much more general concept than a task bar and allows you to place your iconified windows anywhere on the desktop.

The Tray
C'mon, how is anyone supposed to read any useful information out of ultra small agents in the tray? The tray should be replaced by a dock (i.e. like Windows 7 widgets) or a dashboard.

Tiling
For large displays, tiling is not essential, but for limited display screens (like tablets, netbooks, and phones) tiled window managers remove annoying overlap and windowing decorations that otherwise consume limited space. Android, for example, has a single tiled window manager (though for Tablets, it'd be nice if it supported more than just one window, maybe 2 or 3).

Tiling is also especially useful when you have several windows open as it enforces no-overlap. But, again, for large displays this isn't a big deal.

Tiling should be anisotropic (variably spaced grid).

[iago]

In MY opinion, the worst thing about Windows' windowing system is that it's still built in and either impossible or difficult to replace.

I heard that Windows 8 is planning to decouple the UI from the OS finally, so you can use alternative window managers. We'll see how that goes.

[Skywing]

While it is easy to point at GUI's like that and say "Those dummies at Microsoft!  They have no idea what they are doing with this...", making a UI that users intuitively grasp in a productive/useful and discoverable way is much harder than it looks.  Believe it or not, there is a lot of work that goes into the Windows UI design.  The current design works (very well) for a lot of people.  Yes, you can't please everyone simultaneously, but it's certainly possible to come up with a design that works smoothly for the vast majority of persons.

- S (Works at Microsoft, certainly not a UI designer myself though)

[deadly7]

nslay:

It would be nice if windows could be shaded (i.e. pulled up like a lamp shade) or iconified. Iconfication is a much more general concept than a task bar and allows you to place your iconified windows anywhere on the desktop.

I take it you haven't used Win7? Everything, whether you use a classic skin or Aero, is iconified. Firefox doesn't have anything beyond the globe on it, etc etc.

One thing that Windows should have had is the option to add multiple desktops natively. Every other OS has it, and even the stupidest Mac person I know understood how it works. Disable it by default, but give us the option to enable it.

[Sidoh]

I don't think that's what he's talking about. Even though it's nothing but icons on the taskbar, it's still a taskbar.

[nslay]

While it is easy to point at GUI's like that and say "Those dummies at Microsoft!  They have no idea what they are doing with this...", making a UI that users intuitively grasp in a productive/useful and discoverable way is much harder than it looks.  Believe it or not, there is a lot of work that goes into the Windows UI design.  The current design works (very well) for a lot of people.  Yes, you can't please everyone simultaneously, but it's certainly possible to come up with a design that works smoothly for the vast majority of persons.

- S (Works at Microsoft, certainly not a UI designer myself though)

It isn't just Microsoft, it's also every other windowing system that follows the same 'Minimize', 'Maximize', and 'Close' button bundled together.  KDE and OS X are excellent examples. I'm confused why OS X is a victim of this error-prone design as Window Maker (which is supposed to be a NeXTSTEP look-alike) has the close and minimize button on the right and left respectively (no maximize button).

[nslay]

nslay:

It would be nice if windows could be shaded (i.e. pulled up like a lamp shade) or iconified. Iconfication is a much more general concept than a task bar and allows you to place your iconified windows anywhere on the desktop.

I take it you haven't used Win7? Everything, whether you use a classic skin or Aero, is iconified. Firefox doesn't have anything beyond the globe on it, etc etc.

One thing that Windows should have had is the option to add multiple desktops natively. Every other OS has it, and even the stupidest Mac person I know understood how it works. Disable it by default, but give us the option to enable it.

Give twm or Window Maker a go, then you'll know what I'm talking about.

I think twm is a better experience even though it's super ancient. That is the strangest windowing system you'll ever use.

[MyndFyre]

I haven't used a window manager with a minimize/maximize button forever. I hate maximized apps.

What *I* like, though, is consistency and clearness. For the odd time I have to use a mac, I never remember which of those little circles in the wrong place is minimize and which his maximize. Annoying++. I like it when they're labeled and don't move around (what's so wrong with top-right?)

I don't think anything is wrong with top-right, but I don't think that one should say what Windows does is the standard ;p

It's the standard if they did it first and for much, much longer.

O RLY?  Not according to Wikipedia:

A de facto standard is a custom, convention, product, or system that has achieved a dominant position by public acceptance or market forces (such as early entrance to the market). De facto is a Latin phrase meaning "concerning the fact" or "in practice".

(Emphasis added).  I didn't even have to edit the page!

I think that's called clipping?

I would call this 'snapping' (clipping referring to blocking out other components of windows) but I think we're meaning the same thing.

[iago]

I haven't used a window manager with a minimize/maximize button forever. I hate maximized apps.

What *I* like, though, is consistency and clearness. For the odd time I have to use a mac, I never remember which of those little circles in the wrong place is minimize and which his maximize. Annoying++. I like it when they're labeled and don't move around (what's so wrong with top-right?)

I don't think anything is wrong with top-right, but I don't think that one should say what Windows does is the standard ;p

It's the standard if they did it first and for much, much longer.

O RLY?  Not according to Wikipedia:

A de facto standard is a custom, convention, product, or system that has achieved a dominant position by public acceptance or market forces (such as early entrance to the market). De facto is a Latin phrase meaning "concerning the fact" or "in practice".

(Emphasis added).  I didn't even have to edit the page!

Yeah, and IMO that applies to what I was saying. Windows, at least at one time, was the De Facto Standard.. new OSes shouldn't have changed it, that just made it confusing.

I think that's called clipping?

I would call this 'snapping' (clipping referring to blocking out other components of windows) but I think we're meaning the same thing.

Yeah, we're talking about the same thing.

I'm pretty sure it was called clipping in some window manager I used, but snapping definitely sounds more correct.

[Blaze]

Gnome does it a lot better than WindowMaker.  WindowMaker actually pulls windows towards each other, while Gnome requires a little more push to get passed an edge of a window, allowing you to line things up easier.  This should seriously be an option in windows.

[MyndFyre]

Yeah, and IMO that applies to what I was saying. Windows, at least at one time, was the De Facto Standard.. new OSes shouldn't have changed it, that just made it confusing.

Oops, I misread.  I thought you were arguing with me, not Sidoh.

[Sidoh]

It's the type of detail that doesn't really make much of a difference. Even if I have to use both Windows/OS X, I don't find myself getting confused after using it for a pretty short period of time.

Granted - it's still annoying, but I don't really think it bothers me that much.

[iago]

It's the type of detail that doesn't really make much of a difference. Even if I have to use both Windows/OS X, I don't find myself getting confused after using it for a pretty short period of time.

Granted - it's still annoying, but I don't really think it bothers me that much.

I use Windows and almost never OS X. For the 3 or 4 times I've used it, it's annoyed me. Sure, it's something you can get used to, but I dislike change for the sake of change.

[Sidoh]

I'm not convinced that's what it is...

[Hitmen]

is it somehow more intuitive to have the exact same thing is another os that has had it for decades but do it backwards

[Sidoh]

is it somehow more intuitive to have the exact same thing is another os that has had it for decades but do it backwards

Decades? Seriously? Apple's OS is not that much older than Windows, if at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Desktop.png

That's from 1984. I think the first version of Windows was 1985?

[iago]

is it somehow more intuitive to have the exact same thing is another os that has had it for decades but do it backwards

Decades? Seriously? Apple's OS is not that much older than Windows, if at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Desktop.png

That's from 1984. I think the first version of Windows was 1985?

They didn't have the minimize/maximize/close buttons back then. I'm not sure what Mac OS got them, but Windows had them as far back as at least 3.1 (though they didn't have the 'close' button back then, they were still on the top-right).

Also, Apple's OS wasn't really relevant until like 2005.

[Sidoh]

is it somehow more intuitive to have the exact same thing is another os that has had it for decades but do it backwards

Decades? Seriously? Apple's OS is not that much older than Windows, if at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Desktop.png

That's from 1984. I think the first version of Windows was 1985?

They didn't have the minimize/maximize/close buttons back then. I'm not sure what Mac OS got them, but Windows had them as far back as at least 3.1 (though they didn't have the 'close' button back then, they were still on the top-right).

Also, Apple's OS wasn't really relevant until like 2005.

Maybe so, but this is still a pretty clear demonstration that it wasn't change for the sake of change. They still had a button on the left corner of the window before Windows was released.