Slutwalks

[CrAz3D]

the walks stem from a Toronto police officer saying (re: a rape) women shouldn't dress like sluts.

My thoughts are multiple.

First, the assaulter is always 100% at fault.  Second, I think that women (and people in general) should know self defense in order to quash sexual assaults.  While I will never fault a victim for being a victim, I do, however, think it is important for persons to stand up for themselves.  Thus, on the facebook page for the local slutwalk, I suggested that the org try to offer self defense classes/info.  I believe that the best way to defeat victimization is to fight back (and stats back me up).  I was shot down.

While I dont support the name of slutwalk (I personally believe sluts are properly disparaged in the correct context), I do support the underlying premise that assaulters are bad ppl, and that victims should not be blamed.

I cannot help but think of a simple analogy, though:  you leave your keys in the ignition of an unlocked car.  While it is wrong if someone steals your car, there are step you could've taken to mitigate the likelihood that you would become a victim.  I think that is applicable to some sexual assaults (again, I don't agree with blaming the victim, but I do hope that people take steps to protect themselves).

My suggestions of self defense training to the Slutwalk LBK organizers was shot down because they want to focus on the issue of "people shouldnt be victims."  I agree, but I believe the premise is too ideal.  Ideals are cute, but the world does not restrict itself to ideals.  While I am disappointed Slutwalk organizers refused to consider self defense info, I think I might participate anyhow.

[while1]

I'm intoixcated right now.  But I love sluts.

[deadly7]

I'm intoixcated right now.  But I love sluts.

Don't you live in a town of like 5 people and hate it?

[Blaze]

I'm intoixcated right now.  But I love sluts.

Don't you live in a town of like 5 people and hate it?

Dude, don't ruin his drunk fantasies!  That's not cool!

[while1]

I'm intoixcated right now.  But I love sluts.

Don't you live in a town of like 5 people and hate it?

Aye, and there's a lack of sluts!

I'm intoixcated right now.  But I love sluts.

Don't you live in a town of like 5 people and hate it?

Dude, don't ruin his drunk fantasies!  That's not cool!

 

[iago]

I cannot help but think of a simple analogy, though:  you leave your keys in the ignition of an unlocked car.  While it is wrong if someone steals your car, there are step you could've taken to mitigate the likelihood that you would become a victim.  I think that is applicable to some sexual assaults (again, I don't agree with blaming the victim, but I do hope that people take steps to protect themselves).

This seems reasonable to me. I don't blame the victim when something happens, but that doesn't mean that people should do stupid things and take no blame when something bad happens.

One big problem is that women tend to be socialized to be passive around men, and that they shouldn't argue. In reality, women should be willing to hit men in the eyes/balls/whatever to protect themselves.

[deadly7]

In reality, women should be willing to hit men in the eyes/balls/whatever to protect themselves.

Easy for you to say- women love gay guys!! Way to throw the rest of us under the bridge!

[Note: I don't disagree with any of what you said]

[Rule]

I read a story about how a 22 year old man was trying to rape a 42 year old woman. Eventually she played along with it, and was acting like she was going to give him a blowjob.  She then completely bit off his testicles, which apparently bought her some time to escape.  She ran to a local police station, and slapped down the testicles on the reception desk.

The guy showed up at the hospital.  They unsuccessfully tried to re-attach his testicles.

[CrAz3D]

I cannot help but think of a simple analogy, though:  you leave your keys in the ignition of an unlocked car.  While it is wrong if someone steals your car, there are step you could've taken to mitigate the likelihood that you would become a victim.  I think that is applicable to some sexual assaults (again, I don't agree with blaming the victim, but I do hope that people take steps to protect themselves).

This seems reasonable to me. I don't blame the victim when something happens, but that doesn't mean that people should do stupid things and take no blame when something bad happens.

One big problem is that women tend to be socialized to be passive around men, and that they shouldn't argue. In reality, women should be willing to hit men in the eyes/balls/whatever to protect themselves.

You sorta contradict yourself there, sweety.  I agree, but with different wording.  Like I said, and I'm sure you'd agree, blaming the victim is dumb; however, people should take responsibility for themselves.
/see what I did there?  I blamed victims without explicitly blaming them.


Anyhow, the walk was...interesting.  I say "interesting" because it wasn't all about not-blaming-victims.  There was a lot of man-hating going on - many of the signs/chants were directed toward men not raping women, which is understandable given the world, but it's very gender-considerate, which is a big deal to me because all the super-involved people claim to be "progressive" and "gender neutral."  Also, one of the signs said "hate the system, not the victim" - what?  What system?  Society?  The criminal justice system?

...I thought the sign meant society up 'til I heard the sign-carrier speak.  She said that victims sometimes get life sentences whereas attackers hardly ever see time in jail.  Maybe she was mixing contexts, but I'm fairly sure I've never heard of an assault victim ever being sent to jail for being a victim.  However, if said alleged victim lied about the attack, I agree with sending that "victim" to jail (I know a guy that did time for "raping" a girl - she recanted her consent and had him arrested).

Extremists always get me (left right or otherwise), but probably moreso the left since I am more sympathetic to right-causes.  Nevertheless, taking a very sensible issue and making it all about emotional stupid responses is stupid.

[deadly7]

You sorta contradict yourself there, sweety.  I agree, but with different wording.  Like I said, and I'm sure you'd agree, blaming the victim is dumb; however, people should take responsibility for themselves.
/see what I did there?  I blamed victims without explicitly blaming them.

You can think someone's actions are ill-intentioned without blaming them. For example, if you left a loaded gun in easy access that was used to shot someone, I would certainly think that was stupid of you, but I wouldn't blame you for the gun having been used shoot someone.

Anyhow, the walk was...interesting.  I say "interesting" because it wasn't all about not-blaming-victims.  There was a lot of man-hating going on - many of the signs/chants were directed toward men not raping women, which is understandable given the world, but it's very gender-considerate, which is a big deal to me because all the super-involved people claim to be "progressive" and "gender neutral."  Also, one of the signs said "hate the system, not the victim" - what?  What system?  Society?  The criminal justice system?

...I thought the sign meant society up 'til I heard the sign-carrier speak.  She said that victims sometimes get life sentences whereas attackers hardly ever see time in jail.  Maybe she was mixing contexts, but I'm fairly sure I've never heard of an assault victim ever being sent to jail for being a victim.  However, if said alleged victim lied about the attack, I agree with sending that "victim" to jail (I know a guy that did time for "raping" a girl - she recanted her consent and had him arrested).

Slutwalks are just ways for women to be mad at men. Women never rape men, nor exert any kind of reproachable sexual control over men, obviously. I'm betting you saw a lot of uggos there, am I right?

"Life sentence" refers to the fact that a woman will have to live with her rape for the rest of her life, not a criminal justice punishment.

[iago]

I read a story about how a 22 year old man was trying to rape a 42 year old woman. Eventually she played along with it, and was acting like she was going to give him a blowjob.  She then completely bit off his testicles, which apparently bought her some time to escape.  She ran to a local police station, and slapped down the testicles on the reception desk.

The guy showed up at the hospital.  They unsuccessfully tried to re-attach his testicles.

It seems like there are easier ways, but that's still a pretty impressive feat.

I'd be pretty pissed off if I was working at that reception desk, let me tell you..

[CrAz3D]

You sorta contradict yourself there, sweety.  I agree, but with different wording.  Like I said, and I'm sure you'd agree, blaming the victim is dumb; however, people should take responsibility for themselves.
/see what I did there?  I blamed victims without explicitly blaming them.

You can think someone's actions are ill-intentioned without blaming them. For example, if you left a loaded gun in easy access that was used to shot someone, I would certainly think that was stupid of you, but I wouldn't blame you for the gun having been used shoot someone.

Saying someone is stupid for that is pppreeetttyyy close to blaming them.  Either way, I agree that people should take responsibility for putting themselves in shitty situations.

Anyhow, the walk was...interesting.  I say "interesting" because it wasn't all about not-blaming-victims.  There was a lot of man-hating going on - many of the signs/chants were directed toward men not raping women, which is understandable given the world, but it's very gender-considerate, which is a big deal to me because all the super-involved people claim to be "progressive" and "gender neutral."  Also, one of the signs said "hate the system, not the victim" - what?  What system?  Society?  The criminal justice system?

...I thought the sign meant society up 'til I heard the sign-carrier speak.  She said that victims sometimes get life sentences whereas attackers hardly ever see time in jail.  Maybe she was mixing contexts, but I'm fairly sure I've never heard of an assault victim ever being sent to jail for being a victim.  However, if said alleged victim lied about the attack, I agree with sending that "victim" to jail (I know a guy that did time for "raping" a girl - she recanted her consent and had him arrested).

Slutwalks are just ways for women to be mad at men. Women never rape men, nor exert any kind of reproachable sexual control over men, obviously. I'm betting you saw a lot of uggos there, am I right?

"Life sentence" refers to the fact that a woman will have to live with her rape for the rest of her life, not a criminal justice punishment.

(1) yes; (2) I tend to agree, but putting it in the context of CJ and the "blame the system! not the victim!" signs, I wonder...  There was a lot of talk about cops questioning rape victims and harassing them.  If I'm not mistaken, that's what investigators are supposed to do ... question people and figure out what exactly happened.

[CrAz3D]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049076/Dont-wear-uniform-way-school--ll-attract-perverts-Polices-extraordinary-advice-girls.html

You mean to tell me that the parade of sluts didn't change this guy's mind about being a perv?  Wow.  I'm fucking shocked.

[iago]

They had a slutwalk here, today. I didn't attend, but I got in trouble on reddit by asking what's wrong with telling women it's safer to dress conservatively.

[CrAz3D]

...I got yelled at-ish for suggesting the LBK slutwalk offer self defense info.  In my OP I quoted the slutwalk organizer's response.  However, I didnt quote some random broad that responded to me.  I suggested training/self defense...she suggested training men not to rape.  WTF?  I say something constructive and you dismiss it without thought?  ...just like a woman haha.

/there were SOOoooooo many "women" jokes that I wanted to make/hypocrisies I wanted to point out as they all said stuff during the walk.  it was difficult to restrain myself...I had to text all the jokes/comments (mostly hypocrisy observations) to my friend so I could at least get them off my chest.  lol.

[dark_drake]

Is there actually a correlation between how a woman dresses and likelihood of being raped? If there is, I'd say dressing conservatively is the way to go. <sarcasm> Otherwise, it's just making women less attractive on campus and at the bar, and no one wants that </sarcasm>

However, I didnt quote some random broad that responded to me.  I suggested training/self defense...she suggested training men not to rape.

While I agree self-defense classes, carrying a taser, gun, pepper-spray,etc. would help, training some men might pay off. A significant portion of rapes are committed by repeat offenders as observed in anonymous surveys. Read it here. Training those men might pay off.

[CrAz3D]

Can serial rapists be rehabilitated?  Is it worth the time, effort, and money (maybe we should execute them).  Otherwise, society generally trains people to not be rapists.  The problem exists with the people that go against their basic societal training.  No "movement" (without force) is going to change such a degenerate's mind, and even then......*shrug* who knows?

[Sidoh]

Execution is never a reasonable answer.

[iago]

The thing is, I agree with both sides. It shouldn't be up to the women to defend themselves, it should be up to men to stop being assholes. But, it's not a zero sum problem - you can do both.

I look at it this way. If you walk out into a crosswalk without looking, you might get hit by a car. Is it your fault? No. Is it something you could have prevented? Possibly. So in addition to training drivers not to be dicks, why not also train pedestrians to be careful?

[Sidoh]

The thing is, I agree with both sides. It shouldn't be up to the women to defend themselves, it should be up to men to stop being assholes. But, it's not a zero sum problem - you can do both.

I look at it this way. If you walk out into a crosswalk without looking, you might get hit by a car. Is it your fault? No. Is it something you could have prevented? Possibly. So in addition to training drivers not to be dicks, why not also train pedestrians to be careful?

This is exactly how I feel about the issue.

[CrAz3D]

The thing is, I agree with both sides. It shouldn't be up to the women to defend themselves, it should be up to men to stop being assholes. But, it's not a zero sum problem - you can do both.

I look at it this way. If you walk out into a crosswalk without looking, you might get hit by a car. Is it your fault? No. Is it something you could have prevented? Possibly. So in addition to training drivers not to be dicks, why not also train pedestrians to be careful?

word.

[CrAz3D]

http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-news/ci_19131190

ALBUQUERQUE — An Albuquerque woman is facing charges after police said she allowed her daughter and her daughter's friend to drink and smoke pot.
Albuquerque police said Starr Trujillo was arrested Sunday and the girls, both 14, were taken into police custody.
According to a police report, the 32-year-old Trujillo allowed the girls to drink alcohol and smoke marijuana over the weekend at a local hotel with some other males. Police said Trujillo eventually lost sight of the girls, who were later sexually assaulted by juvenile males.
The father of the daughter's friend contacted police after his daughter was missing for a few days.
Trujillo faces a number of charges, including contributing to delinquency of a minor.
It was unclear if she had an attorney.

So, again, it is the assaulters' faults, and it isn't the girls' faults, but is mom also to blame for the sexual assault?  After all, she let them get all fucked up in a stupid-as-fuck situation.