Let's hear it!

[Sidoh]

I would argue that most altruism isn't really genuine altruism.  People like being seen as altruistic because it's an admirable trait.  People like to be admired, so being altruistic can be attractive to a greedy person.

Here are a few interesting cases.  These examples are intended to point out some of the problems with Utilitarianism (although I don't really think they do a very good job).  A few things to note:

* Utilitarianism is a form of consequentialism.  Only the consequences of an action matter in this model; intentions don't mean a thing.
* Mill provides responses to these examples in his essay.  I think some of them are a little iffy.

Example 1
Suppose an evil genius has invented a machine that gives everyone cancer with the push of a button.  He constructs the machine, and pushes the button.  Due to an intentional design flaw, the machine cures cancer.  Utilitarianism says that pushing the button was moral because it, almost without doubt, increases the overall happiness of everyone in the world.

That doesn't quite seem right, though, does it?

Example 2 (Symmetric to example 1)
Suppose a benevolent genius has invented a machine that she intends to cure cancer.  Due to an unintentional design flaw, when she fires off the machine, it gives everyone cancer.  Utilitarianism says that pressing the button was immoral.

This case is a little more unclear to me.  I don't think it's too inaccurate to say it's immoral, and I definitely don't think that pushing the button was moral.

This seems to indicate to me that my moral standard is based mostly off of consequences, but partly off of intentions.

Example 3
(This is a very common thought experiment in moral philosophy)
Suppose there are five dying patients.  Suppose further that you can take all of the essential organs from one of the patients and give them to the dying patients in order to prevent their deaths.

Utilitarianism seems to indicate that killing the one patient is moral.  To some, that doesn't seem right.  Mill has a clever response to this, but I don't think I agree with it.

TL;DR: What about intentions?  They probably matter too.

[iago]

I got attacked by a goose yesterday. True story.

[Sidoh]

I got attacked by a goose yesterday. True story.

Those things are fucking crazy.  I hate geese.  I attacked one with a Nerf gun once.  It fought back.

[iago]

I got attacked by a goose yesterday. True story.

Those things are fucking crazy.  I hate geese.  I attacked one with a Nerf gun once.  It fought back.

I didn't even know the damn thing was there. Suddenly WHAM I get a wing to the face!

[deadly7]

I didn't even know the damn thing was there. Suddenly WHAM I get a wing to the face!

It's so much less amusing to turn your statements into penis-related comments.

The one thing I will always remember about geese... in elementary school, we were outside for my phys. ed class when a flock of geese flew overhead. Naturally they started pooping. My teacher screamed and had us all convinced he got pooped on, but it was all a hoax. Really amusing as an 8 or 9 year old.

[iago]

I didn't even know the damn thing was there. Suddenly WHAM I get a wing to the face!

It's so much less amusing to turn your statements into penis-related comments.

The one thing I will always remember about geese... in elementary school, we were outside for my phys. ed class when a flock of geese flew overhead. Naturally they started pooping. My teacher screamed and had us all convinced he got pooped on, but it was all a hoax. Really amusing as an 8 or 9 year old.

Haha.

I've heard that birds can't poop while in flight, only stationary. I don't know if that's true. *shrug*

[Newby]

I've heard that birds can't poop while in flight, only stationary. I don't know if that's true. *shrug*

I definitely got shit on my leg once at the water park when I was in 6th grade. Sitting out in a grassy patch putting shoes on and PLOP - poop fell on my leg from the sky. I don't think birds have mastered the ability to hover without moving, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a bird.

[Blaze]

I've been shat on in the middle of a field by a bird. 

[CrAz3D]

That happened to me about a week ago. I was sitting out back and bird shit hit me...no tree above. Dogs later caught a bird that afternoon. Good.

[iago]

Well, whoever told me that was wrong. Live and learn!

[Blaze]

It may be true of some birds, to be fair.

[while1]

Got a perfect score on the written motorcycle exam... it'll be a miracle if I get a perfect score on the behind the handlebars exam this weekend.  I'm excited though.

[CrAz3D]

The woman invited me to a dept banquet tonight. A few days ago, she said she's going to the banquet, but I'm not invited because she isnt ready to "open that can of worms" (she was engaged to a dept prof, then ditched him 2 weeks prior...dept faculty were obviously friends with him, and have taken his side). Anywho, she's kept "us" hidden around folks that she aint close to/are faculty for understandable reasons (doesnt want to create more shit for herself in the small dept). However, after telling me I'm not invited (for obvious reasons), she invited me...so I'm going. It's strange, but meeting dept faculty as "being with her" is more "telling"/whatever than meeting her parents (which I'll be doing in a couple weeks).

I guess meeting faculty as being "with her" is a pretty legit step considering she's saying "fuck it" in light of some of them disliking her for calling of prior wedding. I dunno...it's all weird. This is the least conventional relationship I could ever imagine (and I'm sure my grandmother would never approve...maybe, but I guess my folks are OK with it).


/sidenotes: (1) yes, I am an idiot for getting involved with a woman that has a whorish history, was recently engaged, is crazy generally, and doesnt clean*

*I make gender jokes, but perform all the "woman gender" tasks at the house...she still gets upset when I make gender jokes, even though she does at times.

[Rule]

The woman invited me to a dept banquet tonight. A few days ago, she said she's going to the banquet, but I'm not invited because she isnt ready to "open that can of worms" (she was engaged to a dept prof, then ditched him 2 weeks prior...dept faculty were obviously friends with him, and have taken his side). Anywho, she's kept "us" hidden around folks that she aint close to/are faculty for understandable reasons (doesnt want to create more shit for herself in the small dept). However, after telling me I'm not invited (for obvious reasons), she invited me...so I'm going. It's strange, but meeting dept faculty as "being with her" is more "telling"/whatever than meeting her parents (which I'll be doing in a couple weeks).

I guess meeting faculty as being "with her" is a pretty legit step considering she's saying "fuck it" in light of some of them disliking her for calling of prior wedding. I dunno...it's all weird. This is the least conventional relationship I could ever imagine (and I'm sure my grandmother would never approve...maybe, but I guess my folks are OK with it).


/sidenotes: (1) yes, I am an idiot for getting involved with a woman that has a whorish history, was recently engaged, is crazy generally, and doesnt clean*

*I make gender jokes, but perform all the "woman gender" tasks at the house...she still gets upset when I make gender jokes, even though she does at times.

On that note, what's the rush to get engaged to her?  You're still very young, haven't been dating that long, have plenty of time to continue being boyfriend/girlfriend, and it seems like a huge risk.  If you're not sure you'd even still be going out in a year from now (if things continue as they are), why get married?

[Sidoh]

The woman invited me to a dept banquet tonight. A few days ago, she said she's going to the banquet, but I'm not invited because she isnt ready to "open that can of worms" (she was engaged to a dept prof, then ditched him 2 weeks prior...dept faculty were obviously friends with him, and have taken his side). Anywho, she's kept "us" hidden around folks that she aint close to/are faculty for understandable reasons (doesnt want to create more shit for herself in the small dept). However, after telling me I'm not invited (for obvious reasons), she invited me...so I'm going. It's strange, but meeting dept faculty as "being with her" is more "telling"/whatever than meeting her parents (which I'll be doing in a couple weeks).

I guess meeting faculty as being "with her" is a pretty legit step considering she's saying "fuck it" in light of some of them disliking her for calling of prior wedding. I dunno...it's all weird. This is the least conventional relationship I could ever imagine (and I'm sure my grandmother would never approve...maybe, but I guess my folks are OK with it).


/sidenotes: (1) yes, I am an idiot for getting involved with a woman that has a whorish history, was recently engaged, is crazy generally, and doesnt clean*

*I make gender jokes, but perform all the "woman gender" tasks at the house...she still gets upset when I make gender jokes, even though she does at times.

On that note, what's the rush to get engaged to her?  You're still very young, haven't been dating that long, have plenty of time to continue being boyfriend/girlfriend, and it seems like a huge risk.  If you're not sure you'd even still be going out in a year from now (if things continue as they are), why get married?

I second this.

I don't understand the rush to get married.  There's really not much of a lasting benefit for anyone involved.