Let's hear it!

[Sidoh]

Ah. In all of my student interviews, myself [and all the other candidates] have worn either full-fledged suits or at least a shirt and tie. And right now I work in a sister industry to yours (I do tech support).

Especially if you're being interviewed by engineers, I don't think they care if you dress up.  In fact, when I have dressed up, they usually make a point to say that they don't really care how you dress.

I wore jeans and a collared shirt to my interview for my job this summer.

[deadly7]

Especially if you're being interviewed by engineers, I don't think they care if you dress up.  In fact, when I have dressed up, they usually make a point to say that they don't really care how you dress.

I wore jeans and a collared shirt to my interview for my job this summer.

Presentation is key. One of my bosses was telling me how a candidate they had for a position was slouching, didn't have a tie, etc. We're not a formal businessplace, overall, and most of the time my bosses roam around in jeans and t-shirts. But I do think dressing up for interviews is important to at least make a strong first impression. Obviously dressing up won't get you a job, and not dressing up won't inherently deny you a job, but having a strong presence (good posture, good handshake, good attire) at least helps.

Just my opinion, YMMV. It's worked out for me thus far. *shrug*

[Sidoh]

Being charismatic is important, but I don't agree that dressing up necessarily is.  I'm sure there are plenty of jobs where not dressing up is harmful, but none of the interviews I've had have this property.

Not worrying about it has worked out for me so far.  I've had some pretty decent offers.

[iago]

This suggests that graduation ceremonies, proms, birthdays, etc. are all 'effectively meaningless' as well.  Of course they're only meaningful because we've been raised in a culture that assigns meaning to them.  That doesn't mean there is no value in the events, and it doesn't mean they're silly.

I agree, they are.

But people don't spend thousands and thousands of dollars on them. As a result, they're much more harmless.

If weddings were treated more like birthdays where you just invite friends over, buy some food and liquor, and do it, then I wouldn't be so much against them. I'm more against the whole self-perpetuating industry than the ceremony itself.

[Sidoh]

This suggests that graduation ceremonies, proms, birthdays, etc. are all 'effectively meaningless' as well.  Of course they're only meaningful because we've been raised in a culture that assigns meaning to them.  That doesn't mean there is no value in the events, and it doesn't mean they're silly.

I agree, they are.

But people don't spend thousands and thousands of dollars on them. As a result, they're much more harmless.

If weddings were treated more like birthdays where you just invite friends over, buy some food and liquor, and do it, then I wouldn't be so much against them. I'm more against the whole self-perpetuating industry than the ceremony itself.

Birthdays are more frequent than weddings, though.  Over the span of an average life, I'd be surprised if a person spent more on the average wedding than on the sum of all of their birthdays.

more later... need to work.

[rabbit]

This suggests that graduation ceremonies, proms, birthdays, etc. are all 'effectively meaningless' as well.  Of course they're only meaningful because we've been raised in a culture that assigns meaning to them.  That doesn't mean there is no value in the events, and it doesn't mean they're silly.

I agree, they are.

But people don't spend thousands and thousands of dollars on them. As a result, they're much more harmless.

If weddings were treated more like birthdays where you just invite friends over, buy some food and liquor, and do it, then I wouldn't be so much against them. I'm more against the whole self-perpetuating industry than the ceremony itself.

You two might not disagree with a Quaker wedding ceremony.

[iago]

This suggests that graduation ceremonies, proms, birthdays, etc. are all 'effectively meaningless' as well.  Of course they're only meaningful because we've been raised in a culture that assigns meaning to them.  That doesn't mean there is no value in the events, and it doesn't mean they're silly.

I agree, they are.

But people don't spend thousands and thousands of dollars on them. As a result, they're much more harmless.

If weddings were treated more like birthdays where you just invite friends over, buy some food and liquor, and do it, then I wouldn't be so much against them. I'm more against the whole self-perpetuating industry than the ceremony itself.

Birthdays are more frequent than weddings, though.  Over the span of an average life, I'd be surprised if a person spent more on the average wedding than on the sum of all of their birthdays.

more later... need to work.

That's true, but there isn't (really) an industry built on taking all your money for your birthday. Not counting the liquor industry, of course. Anything that's been commercialized to the extent of marriage should be closely examined.

That's a good point about the sum spent on birthdays, although one-time costs tend to concern me more than costs distributed across a lifetime.

Also, like I said, marriage is essentially a religious ceremony. There are ways to celebrate your love for each other that don't involve the whole marriage thing.

[Sidoh]

That's true, but there isn't (really) an industry built on taking all your money for your birthday. Not counting the liquor industry, of course. Anything that's been commercialized to the extent of marriage should be closely examined.

Okay then... examine it.  I'm not a fan of traditional weddings either -- the ones that occur in a church, have a pastor, etc.  However, I don't see any problem with the idea of marriage, or the celebration that is the wedding.

That's a good point about the sum spent on birthdays, although one-time costs tend to concern me more than costs distributed across a lifetime.

Why?

Also, like I said, marriage is essentially a religious ceremony. There are ways to celebrate your love for each other that don't involve the whole marriage thing.

A wedding is sometimes a religious ceremony (but by no means necessarily is).  The modern concept of marriage is (or at least can be) entirely secular.  I don't accept that as any sort of legitimate reason to oppose marriage.  It's a good reason to not like religious wedding ceremonies, but that's not equivalent to marriage.

Also, sure, there are other ways to "celebrate your love," but that doesn't mean that marriage isn't a good one.

[iago]

Okay then... examine it.  I'm not a fan of traditional weddings either -- the ones that occur in a church, have a pastor, etc.  However, I don't see any problem with the idea of marriage, or the celebration that is the wedding.

I don't really separate those two situations mentally. Maybe that's part of my upbringing?

That's a good point about the sum spent on birthdays, although one-time costs tend to concern me more than costs distributed across a lifetime.

Why?

Because it's an all or nothing (all-in?) situation. I can decide from year to year if I want to/can afford to celebrate my birthday. Years when I can afford it, I have it; if I can't, I do something else. With a wedding, whether or not you can afford it, people still feel the need to have one and generate debt.

A wedding is sometimes a religious ceremony (but by no means necessarily is).  The modern concept of marriage is (or at least can be) entirely secular.  I don't accept that as any sort of legitimate reason to oppose marriage.  It's a good reason to not like religious wedding ceremonies, but that's not equivalent to marriage.

Like I said, I associate the two, and I think a lot of people do, too.

I mean, if it was entirely secular, why isn't gay marriage allowed in most places?

Also, sure, there are other ways to "celebrate your love," but that doesn't mean that marriage isn't a good one.

Well, I was predicting an argument with that line.

[Sidoh]

I don't really separate those two situations mentally. Maybe that's part of my upbringing?

Wedding and marriage?  Why?  Marriage is possible without a wedding, unless you define wedding to include going to the courthouse and getting some paperwork signed...

Because it's an all or nothing (all-in?) situation. I can decide from year to year if I want to/can afford to celebrate my birthday. Years when I can afford it, I have it; if I can't, I do something else. With a wedding, whether or not you can afford it, people still feel the need to have one and generate debt.

Weddings are not necessarily that expensive.  Some people are bad with money, and will have an expensive wedding even though they can't afford it, but I blame that on them being idiots, not weddings.

Like I said, I associate the two, and I think a lot of people do, too.

It's fair to associate them, but not to equivocate them.  It's even more unfair to take a specific type of wedding, assume that all weddings are like that, and then equivocate marriage with that.  that's just silly :p

I mean, if it was entirely secular, why isn't gay marriage allowed in most places?

I think that will change within the next few decades.  However, the fact that the state doesn't respect gay marriage doesn't mean that I don't.  If two gay guys went to canada and got married, i don't care what california says, i still say they're married.

Well, I was predicting an argument with that line.

and?... that's not much of a response

[iago]

I don't really separate those two situations mentally. Maybe that's part of my upbringing?

Wedding and marriage?  Why?  Marriage is possible without a wedding, unless you define wedding to include going to the courthouse and getting some paperwork signed...

Because it's an all or nothing (all-in?) situation. I can decide from year to year if I want to/can afford to celebrate my birthday. Years when I can afford it, I have it; if I can't, I do something else. With a wedding, whether or not you can afford it, people still feel the need to have one and generate debt.

Weddings are not necessarily that expensive.  Some people are bad with money, and will have an expensive wedding even though they can't afford it, but I blame that on them being idiots, not weddings.

Like I said, I associate the two, and I think a lot of people do, too.

It's fair to associate them, but not to equivocate them.  It's even more unfair to take a specific type of wedding, assume that all weddings are like that, and then equivocate marriage with that.  that's just silly :p

It seems that it comes down to how we define marriage/weddings, really. Probably the nature of our upbringing/where we lived.

Whether or not it's a cheap or expensive marriage/wedding, though, I still think they're pointless. And yes, equally as pointless as celebrating birthdays/christmas/everything else.

I think that will change within the next few decades.  However, the fact that the state doesn't respect gay marriage doesn't mean that I don't.  If two gay guys went to canada and got married, i don't care what california says, i still say they're married.

We'll see on that one.

IMO, those gay guys (or women ) would be wasting their time, though!

and?... that's not much of a response

Well, make the argument and we can re-visit it

[Sidoh]

Whether or not it's a cheap or expensive marriage/wedding, though, I still think they're pointless. And yes, equally as pointless as celebrating birthdays/christmas/everything else.

Why are they "pointless?"  Sure, the date is completely arbitrary, and the reason isn't much less arbitrary, but it's an excuse to celebrate.  And I don't know about you, but celebrating stuff is fun.  Many people I know would probably cite their wedding day as one of the happiest days of their life.  That doesn't seem pointless to me.

Well, make the argument and we can re-visit it

Even if I did, your response sucks.  It's kind of like being told the ending to a movie.  If the ending sucks, why watch the movie?

[Towelie]

It's a religious ceremony that is effectively meaningless. The only meaning it has is what we put into it -- it's only because we've been told growing up that we're supposed to get married that we all think we're supposed to get married.

Isn't that how things get meaning? I guess this is on par with relativism. Whatever your society or culture deems to be meaningful will generally be what you think is meaningful. Nothing would be meaningful if your society/culture didn't value it.

[while1]

Totally pwned my end of the year job performance evaluation... technically called the Performance Management Process (PMP).  Mostly 4's (on a 1-4 scale) and scattered 3's, with 4's captioned as something like "far exceeds expectations and goals".

All the team leads gave me words of praise in the eval, with comments like "... work exceeds the quality and level indicative of someone of his experience and duties", various use of adjectives like "diligent" and verbs like "impressed" and shizzle.

Not like I was expecting anything less though.  

Foods probably the one thing you should be spending on. If you have energy (From good foods and a balanced diet) you're going to be in a better mood, more confident, happier, more productive, and less depressed. But monotony makes anybody down in the dumps, just fight through it and relish in the future luxuries you'll have from working hard now.

Edit: Also go buy something new for your apartment, freshen it up a bit. Something bright. I like to add something or rearrange things when I'm in a bad mood, the change usually cheers me up. Also maybe a new outfit or at least a new tie. If you look like a million bucks you're going to feel like a million bucks, and then make a million bucks. Good luck.

Yeah, I went out and bought food today.  Already have a shit load of nice dress clothes two weeks ago.  I tend to over dress at my work, the work environment I work is pretty informal unless the customer is around.  We have nerf guns in our lab, fully automatic ones (battery powered) and more.

[Sidoh]

It's a religious ceremony that is effectively meaningless. The only meaning it has is what we put into it -- it's only because we've been told growing up that we're supposed to get married that we all think we're supposed to get married.

Isn't that how things get meaning? I guess this is on par with relativism. Whatever your society or culture deems to be meaningful will generally be what you think is meaningful. Nothing would be meaningful if your society/culture didn't value it.

I agree.  I think the value people see in marriage is pretty subjective, and I don't think calling it "meaningless" because you subjectively assign less value to it is kinda lame. : P