Author Topic: Let's hear it!  (Read 1972030 times)

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Offline Falcon

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9615 on: April 10, 2012, 11:23:00 am »
I just got accepted into the MS in Electrical and Computer Engineering program at Texas A&M  8)

Offline AntiVirus

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9616 on: April 10, 2012, 11:53:47 am »
Congrats! :)
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Offline dark_drake

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9617 on: April 10, 2012, 12:46:33 pm »
I just got accepted into the MS in Electrical and Computer Engineering program at Texas A&M  8)
Gross! You're going to be a dirty, dirty Aggie!  :P Actually, I'm told they have a great program. Alas, I'm not sure if there's going to be much of a rivalry anymore with UT and Texas A&M not playing in the same football conference anymore. My blind hatred will have to find another outlet.
errr... something like that...

Offline Falcon

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9618 on: April 10, 2012, 01:11:11 pm »
Thanks! I'm actually still waiting to hear back from UT Dallas, which I actually prefer over A&M because I already know most of the professors there and there are much more career opportunities in the Telecom Corridor, whereas in College Station I'll just be stuck with a bunch of rednecks in the middle of nowhere for 2 years lol. So not a dirty aggie just yet!

Offline CrAz3D

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9619 on: April 10, 2012, 04:19:27 pm »
I just got accepted into the MS in Electrical and Computer Engineering program at Texas A&M  8)
Gross! You're going to be a dirty, dirty Aggie!  :P Actually, I'm told they have a great program. Alas, I'm not sure if there's going to be much of a rivalry anymore with UT and Texas A&M not playing in the same football conference anymore. My blind hatred will have to find another outlet.
Hate on TTU; we try to --- apparently --- have a rivalry w/UT, but we suck at sports, so it all sorta just makes TTU look like wannabes. We were legit a few years ago, but then TTU fired Leach :(.

Side note: TTU's entire natl champ chess team is ditching TTU for Webster. Strange to see a whole pack up and go.

Offline d&q

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9620 on: April 21, 2012, 04:45:34 am »
Hey people. I hope all has been well with all. I know many of you are now well into your respective computer science careers. Congratulations! If y'all will oblige, I would like to know if anyone here has pursued (or has to decided to pursue) a M.S. (or higher?) in CS? What are your thoughts/reflections about it? I've heard that it's completely unnecessary if you're simply looking to make more money. However I feel that perspective lacks the whole "fulfillment" factor. So basically I want know if (a) was it worth your time, (b) worth your $, (c) completely (ir)regrettable. None of these are necessarily mutually exclusive of course. Believe it or not, the diversity of opinion around here is very lacking, so I'm keen to hear the opinion of people with, iirc, diverse backgrounds (I'm looking at you Joe). I'm asking this here since I've known (sort of) many of you for a long time, and since you're all nerds like I am.

If you feel generous enough to chat, I can still be reached via AIM@ProfessorTruth69, or whatever the kids are using these days. Anyway, someone hit me back! And by look of these boards, preferably this year...

Thanks. 
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Offline rabbit

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9621 on: April 21, 2012, 02:31:45 pm »
"Irregrettable" is not a word so I suggest you spend the money you would be investing in a masters of CS into some English lessons

Offline Falcon

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9622 on: April 21, 2012, 03:04:52 pm »
"Irregrettable" is not a word so I suggest you spend the money you would be investing in a masters of CS into some English lessons
TROLOLOL

Offline while1

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9623 on: April 21, 2012, 03:08:20 pm »
"Irregrettable" is not a word so I suggest you spend the money you would be investing in a masters of CS into some English lessons
TROLOLOL
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Offline Sidoh

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9624 on: April 21, 2012, 04:12:48 pm »
Hey people. I hope all has been well with all. I know many of you are now well into your respective computer science careers. Congratulations! If y'all will oblige, I would like to know if anyone here has pursued (or has to decided to pursue) a M.S. (or higher?) in CS? What are your thoughts/reflections about it? I've heard that it's completely unnecessary if you're simply looking to make more money. However I feel that perspective lacks the whole "fulfillment" factor. So basically I want know if (a) was it worth your time, (b) worth your $, (c) completely (ir)regrettable. None of these are necessarily mutually exclusive of course. Believe it or not, the diversity of opinion around here is very lacking, so I'm keen to hear the opinion of people with, iirc, diverse backgrounds (I'm looking at you Joe). I'm asking this here since I've known (sort of) many of you for a long time, and since you're all nerds like I am.

If you feel generous enough to chat, I can still be reached via AIM@ProfessorTruth69, or whatever the kids are using these days. Anyway, someone hit me back! And by look of these boards, preferably this year...

Thanks.

Hey, you ended up at Stanford, right? How many years do you have left? I ended up working with a couple of people from Stanford last summer. I dunno how many people are in your program... is it possible you'd know them?

I'm graduating next winter (M.S. - would do PhD, but tired of being poor). Would've been sooner, but I put off finding a thesis topic until this semester.

(a) Yes, I'd say so. I learned some things, but depending on where you go, I think it's probably a more pleasant life than the alternative. I've really enjoyed my time here.

(b) Well, in my case (and in most cases, as far as I'm concerned), you don't generally pay to go to graduate school. You get an assistantship. I've been a TA for the CS department's discrete math course, which covers tuition and pays a stipend. It's enough to live on without having another job if you're sufficiently frugal.

That said, however, one has to consider the opportunity cost. I could've very easily gone into industry with a nice starting salary. Not doing so has probably cost me on the order of $100k. That sucks.

To me, though, it's been worth it. It's afforded me the time to do a few more internships, which has very likely influenced my desired work environment. Before starting here, I was pretty sure I'd like to end up working for IDA or something similar. After interning at a reasonably well-established startup, I'm pretty sure that's more my cup of tea.

It's been nice to relax. It's given me time to work on some projects that I probably wouldn't have been able to get around to otherwise.

This is important, though: don't pursue a graduate degree in CS if your aim is higher starting salary. It's pretty much useless for that. You'll probably start with a slightly higher salary, but in the amount of time it took you to earn the degree, a person who went straight into industry after undergrad has probably had sufficient promotion opportunities to more than make up for it. Not to mention the fact that the industry person is better established than you and will probably have an easier time moving to companies of his or her choosing.

(c) Neither, really. If faced with the decision again, I'd do the same thing, but I don't think life would've been much better or worse had I chosen to go into industry after undergrad.

Offline d&q

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9625 on: April 21, 2012, 05:24:29 pm »
"Irregrettable" is not a word so I suggest you spend the money you would be investing in a masters of CS into some English lessons

Good point, I'll look into it. Frankly it never hurts to expand your skill set.

Hey people. I hope all has been well with all. I know many of you are now well into your respective computer science careers. Congratulations! If y'all will oblige, I would like to know if anyone here has pursued (or has to decided to pursue) a M.S. (or higher?) in CS? What are your thoughts/reflections about it? I've heard that it's completely unnecessary if you're simply looking to make more money. However I feel that perspective lacks the whole "fulfillment" factor. So basically I want know if (a) was it worth your time, (b) worth your $, (c) completely (ir)regrettable. None of these are necessarily mutually exclusive of course. Believe it or not, the diversity of opinion around here is very lacking, so I'm keen to hear the opinion of people with, iirc, diverse backgrounds (I'm looking at you Joe). I'm asking this here since I've known (sort of) many of you for a long time, and since you're all nerds like I am.

If you feel generous enough to chat, I can still be reached via AIM@ProfessorTruth69, or whatever the kids are using these days. Anyway, someone hit me back! And by look of these boards, preferably this year...

Thanks.

Hey, you ended up at Stanford, right? How many years do you have left? I ended up working with a couple of people from Stanford last summer. I dunno how many people are in your program... is it possible you'd know them?

I'm graduating next winter (M.S. - would do PhD, but tired of being poor). Would've been sooner, but I put off finding a thesis topic until this semester.

(a) Yes, I'd say so. I learned some things, but depending on where you go, I think it's probably a more pleasant life than the alternative. I've really enjoyed my time here.

(b) Well, in my case (and in most cases, as far as I'm concerned), you don't generally pay to go to graduate school. You get an assistantship. I've been a TA for the CS department's discrete math course, which covers tuition and pays a stipend. It's enough to live on without having another job if you're sufficiently frugal.

That said, however, one has to consider the opportunity cost. I could've very easily gone into industry with a nice starting salary. Not doing so has probably cost me on the order of $100k. That sucks.

To me, though, it's been worth it. It's afforded me the time to do a few more internships, which has very likely influenced my desired work environment. Before starting here, I was pretty sure I'd like to end up working for IDA or something similar. After interning at a reasonably well-established startup, I'm pretty sure that's more my cup of tea.

It's been nice to relax. It's given me time to work on some projects that I probably wouldn't have been able to get around to otherwise.

This is important, though: don't pursue a graduate degree in CS if your aim is higher starting salary. It's pretty much useless for that. You'll probably start with a slightly higher salary, but in the amount of time it took you to earn the degree, a person who went straight into industry after undergrad has probably had sufficient promotion opportunities to more than make up for it. Not to mention the fact that the industry person is better established than you and will probably have an easier time moving to companies of his or her choosing.

(c) Neither, really. If faced with the decision again, I'd do the same thing, but I don't think life would've been much better or worse had I chosen to go into industry after undergrad.

Thank you for the thorough response. I have one more year left here until I graduate, but the application process starts this summer. I'm actually not a CS major, so the chances I know your co-workers aren't that great. Drop a couple names and some would probably ring a bell though. Anyway, what exactly do you mean it was more pleasant than the alternative? The alternative being going into industry?

Also to clarify, my question about money was moreso about justifying doing the degree--its not my motivation. The fact is my major is kind of broad, so I've only taken a handful of serious CS courses (the 'core', so to speak), so I'm pretty sure I'm lacking in some key undergrad-level areas. That's why I'd like to take a year to basically just dedicate myself to catching up + doing graduate level shit.

Fundamentally, I'd learn the material for its own sake, but I won't play with you and pretend that money is not a factor. A M.S. here generally is not paid -- TAships actually (i.e. anecdotally) cover only about 50% of tuition, + stipend. So that's definitely an issue, as the idea of being saddled with debt is never appealing (particularly since I don't have a job / significant savings). The upside is that it would only take a year. The opportunity cost is not an issue - I'm probably going to be in school for a long time whatever I decide to do. The main things for me is that it get me some of the more interesting internships / work experience, which generally require more previous experience than I have (Aside: Factual is one of the cooler startups I've seen. Basically the type of company I'm all about).

I was hoping an MS would unlock some sort of 'higher tier' of job opportunities, but I guess it doesn't really. It seems from what you've said that its probably better just to find a job immediately. It's weird, I was very set on doing one until it struck me to ask for a second opinion -- virtually every reply has been along the lines of yours, i.e., that 'it's nice but not necessarily worth it'. It's kind of sad that the CS MS is not as differentiated from the BS, like in other fields. I think it definitely has the potential, given the breadth of the subject. Anyway, it was good to finally hear a cogent opinion from a non-sycophant (slight exaggeration, but not really). Thanks.

So what have you decided to do now? Out of curiosity, was money your only reason for not pursuing a Ph.D? I'd definitely understand not liking the time commitment either. On the other hand, its 100% free...

P.S. If one you bosses would like to give me the DL on certification (which ones actually matter and for what), I'd be much obliged. Google can be a difficult wench at times.
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Offline Sidoh

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9626 on: April 21, 2012, 06:45:15 pm »
Thank you for the thorough response. I have one more year left here until I graduate, but the application process starts this summer. I'm actually not a CS major, so the chances I know your co-workers aren't that great. Drop a couple names and some would probably ring a bell though. Anyway, what exactly do you mean it was more pleasant than the alternative? The alternative being going into industry?

It's not really very important. There was a Kurt, and a Takashi. Was just curious. :)

Yep, the alternative being going into industry. As fun as working for a startup was, I could tell there would be plenty of times it would still feel like the grind. Grad school affords me a lot of free time (granted, much of that can probably be attributed to the fact I go to a pretty sub-par school. I chose it for its location, not its academic reputation. :)). It's been a really pleasant couple of years.

Also to clarify, my question about money was moreso about justifying doing the degree--its not my motivation. The fact is my major is kind of broad, so I've only taken a handful of serious CS courses (the 'core', so to speak), so I'm pretty sure I'm lacking in some key undergrad-level areas. That's why I'd like to take a year to basically just dedicate myself to catching up + doing graduate level shit.

Sounds like it might be worthwhile for you. If you feel like you're lacking some fundamental skills that would give your competition an edge, then I'd say it's probably a worthwhile investment.

What is your major anyway?

Fundamentally, I'd learn the material for its own sake, but I won't play with you and pretend that money is not a factor. A M.S. here generally is not paid -- TAships actually (i.e. anecdotally) cover only about 50% of tuition, + stipend. So that's definitely an issue, as the idea of being saddled with debt is never appealing (particularly since I don't have a job / significant savings). The upside is that it would only take a year. The opportunity cost is not an issue - I'm probably going to be in school for a long time whatever I decide to do. The main things for me is that it get me some of the more interesting internships / work experience, which generally require more previous experience than I have (Aside: Factual is one of the cooler startups I've seen. Basically the type of company I'm all about).

It might be worth looking at other schools. It's understandable if you're unwilling to relocate, but most schools I'm familiar with (including some pretty good CS schools) pay tuition in full if you do an assistantship.

I was hoping an MS would unlock some sort of 'higher tier' of job opportunities, but I guess it doesn't really. It seems from what you've said that its probably better just to find a job immediately. It's weird, I was very set on doing one until it struck me to ask for a second opinion -- virtually every reply has been along the lines of yours, i.e., that 'it's nice but not necessarily worth it'. It's kind of sad that the CS MS is not as differentiated from the BS, like in other fields. I think it definitely has the potential, given the breadth of the subject. Anyway, it was good to finally hear a cogent opinion from a non-sycophant (slight exaggeration, but not really). Thanks.

Yeah, as far as I know, it doesn't. I'm sure there are a few rare exceptions, but as far as startups and companies like Google, Facebook, Yelp, etc. go, they don't care that much about an MS. They're concerned with how skilled an engineer you are, and that doesn't really correlate very well with having an MS over a BS.

There are positions that you can't really get without a PhD or rockstar status, though. For example, research positions at Google, Microsoft, and IBM would probably be pretty hard to land without a PhD or some reputation as an academic (being published, conferences, etc.)

So what have you decided to do now? Out of curiosity, was money your only reason for not pursuing a Ph.D? I'd definitely understand not liking the time commitment either. On the other hand, its 100% free...

Not sure yet. I'd like to be self employed eventually, but I'll probably work in silicon valley for a while. Lots of startups and companies to choose from.

I don't pay any money, but opportunity cost is very relevant to me. And I'm not really interested in positions that would (for the most part) require a PhD. Basically, I'd like to get on with life and start making money.

P.S. If one you bosses would like to give me the DL on certification (which ones actually matter and for what), I'd be much obliged. Google can be a difficult wench at times.

Do you work at Google?

From a software engineering perspective, certifications don't do much for you in my experience.

Offline d&q

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9627 on: April 21, 2012, 10:13:10 pm »
Yep, the alternative being going into industry. As fun as working for a startup was, I could tell there would be plenty of times it would still feel like the grind. Grad school affords me a lot of free time (granted, much of that can probably be attributed to the fact I go to a pretty sub-par school. I chose it for its location, not its academic reputation. :)). It's been a really pleasant couple of years.

I believe that all schools (above some minimum threshold) provide roughly the same education. The curriculum is generally the same, and in my opinion, so is the instruction. Honestly, most of the worst lecturers I've had were usually the most decorated. I think too many people, not meaning you of course, equate intelligence, even notability, with professorial excellence. They eventually come to find they're sadly mistaken. I've found that the major difference lies in the number of  'opportunities' on campus, which admittedly is almost circular logic because good students go to schools that recruit, while recruiters go to the schools that have good students... this is kind of how I think of academic reputation in general. Things like USNews & WorldReport have created simulacra, reputations that exists simply because we believe them to. And I agree, people don't value location enough when making this sort of decision. I've lived my entire life in a mediterranean-subtropical climate, and that's not likely to change  :P.

Sounds like it might be worthwhile for you. If you feel like you're lacking some fundamental skills that would give your competition an edge, then I'd say it's probably a worthwhile investment.

What is your major anyway?

My major is Symbolic Systems with a concentration in Neuroscience. I didn't want to complicate the question, but I'm also pre-medical, and I'm considering a MD/Ph.D in Neuroscience. I can dream about it anyway. That's a separate path from what I asked you though, since I could just learn whatever CS I needed while doing that. The basic theme in all this is that I never really knew what I wanted to do in high school or college, I never had that 'click' that actually goes off in a lot of people, the one that immediately decides their fate.

I originally wanted to do your major, as I think its curricula is the most aesthetically pleasing, in a fucked didactic sense. If educational reform ever becomes a reality, many people think that there will be a far greater emphasis in math and CS, particularly in childhood. Anyway, double majoring in Math/CS is very difficult here, as I'm sure it is every else. One big reason is you can't double-count classes, and there is too much overlap. At least I couldn't take it  :P. Also, biology is great now. In the last few years it has become highly rigorous/quantitative, which is always a good thing. It's at the point some mathematician can just go in with rudimentary biological knowledge and still fuck shit up. So basically my interests are broad, which made the specificity and depth of the MS appealing.

It might be worth looking at other schools. It's understandable if you're unwilling to relocate, but most schools I'm familiar with (including some pretty good CS schools) pay tuition in full if you do an assistantship.

That's true, and if money becomes the deciding factor I'll probably consider doing so. However, there's pretty huge (as in almost guaranteed if you don't fuck up) advantage in applying here as a student. It's also simpler -- 3 recommendations and the GRE. I wouldn't mind moonlighting as well, since like you said, your workload isn't actually that large. Trickin' in Oaktown brings in large $ anyway.

Do you work at Google?

Haha, I do not. I meant that searching the interwebs wasn't especially helpful. Somewhat amusing story though: I went to a Google party in SF last year, as my friend from home was interning there during the summer. I was expecting the typical bourgeoisie bullshit, but instead we happened upon the most crunk (no other way to describe it) party I've ever been to here. Bitches stripping, product managers popping AND locking--even the software engineers appeared sociable at times :P. It was interesting to say the least. Particularly since someone there might end up interviewing me someday.

From a software engineering perspective, certifications don't do much for you in my experience.

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Offline Rule

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9628 on: April 21, 2012, 10:28:10 pm »
I have to rush to a dinner, so the new posts, while interesting looking, are far too tl;dr for me right now.  However, it seems you are asking whether to get an MS in computer science and how that might affect your opportunities in industry mostly.

I am doing a PhD and I know for sure that it gives me incredible opportunities to do almost pure relatively unrestricted fascinating research at companies like Xerox, Microsoft, etc. 

I have heard that an MS will lead to more interesting positions than having just a BS, but not necessarily higher paid positions. My sense is the PhD is a lot more valuable in terms of flexibility.   The PhD is a much easier route to those positions, and I recommend it if you find an area of computer science you are really interested in anyways.  The PhD itself is pretty awesome if you are in a good lab with a good supervisor and in a field you are naturally interested in.  It's a unique opportunity to be really ambitious, to disregard corporate interests, to travel the world through conferences and workshops, and to become part of a community of fascinating people.


Got to run!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 01:58:58 am by Rule »

Offline CrAz3D

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Re: Let's hear it!
« Reply #9629 on: April 22, 2012, 12:59:50 am »
looking for money? fuck school. start a business. rich people aren't rich because they went to school (moreso about luck, it seems, though).

anyway, one of my best buds is at purdue finishing up his PhD in CS related crap (cant remember exactly what it is). PhD in the field, for him, seems to mean better jobs not in terms of money but in regard to other crap.

that said, a bonus of real science degrees is that schools give you scholarships. I'm working on an "MS" but it has nothing to do with science, so I pay for it. also working on a law degree, and the expectation is that I'll make lots, so no scholarships there either. Whatevs. I love it (until I kill myself because everything in life is bullshit).

Nevertheless, do it if you WANT to. That's the big thing.



BONUS: you dont get awesome jobs by being smart; you get OK jobs by being smart-enough, good jobs by being smart, and awesome jobs by doing shit yourself.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 01:05:24 am by CrAz3D »