General Forums > Academic / School
Anyone else still in school?
Sidoh:
--- Quote from: Rule on March 17, 2013, 11:31:36 am ---
--- Quote from: Sidoh on March 14, 2013, 04:15:45 am ---For what it's worth: "job security" in software jobs is a non-issue if you're even reasonably good. There are some positions that tend to only hire Ph.D.s or pay a little more based on degrees, but generally they're pretty rare these days. I'd say he's either confused/misinformed, wants to get tenure and slack off for the rest of his life, or is uncomfortable with the idea of leaving academia (most likely).
--- End quote ---
Getting tenure-track is hard, especially at a half decent university, much harder than getting a secure high paying job. Once you're on tenure track, it's still a long road to a full tenured position, typically up to 15 more years of intensely stressful and relatively low paid work. No sane person would go through that pain just to slack off once tenured.
I have seen rare cases of professors getting tenure and seemingly doing very little, but it's more a case of luck than anything. You'd be better off buying lottery tickets.
--- End quote ---
I dunno. It is, of course, very stressful, but I'm quite sure there are people who'd pay that cost to avoid having to work hard afterwards. This is especially true if they're willing to work at a university that isn't "half decent". :)
--- Quote from: Rule on March 17, 2013, 11:31:36 am ---
On the topic of PhD-level jobs, they are actually quite plentiful, but you have to be in the "right" field. If your PhD has a good mix of computer science and statistics, and it's from a prestigious university* (it's stupid but sometimes necessary, unfortunately), you're eligible for all sorts of high paying PhD-only jobs, particularly quant jobs at hedge funds, but also full-time "researcher" positions at Google, MSR, Amazon, Facebook, and startups.
*or you have a well known supervisor, or collaborator.
--- End quote ---
Right, sure. I didn't mean to say they didn't exist, just that the job market as a whole doesn't seem to favor Ph.D.s very much. I'm sure the average Ph.D. starts with a higher salary than the average person with a B.S., but the Ph.D. probably had to wait 5-7 years to start. In that time, the person who's already started has been making good money and has probably gotten raises that make their salary competitive with what the average Ph.D. starts at.
Of course if you're interested in research, you'll have to do one.
Not that this counts for much, but: as for startups, I have a friend who recently finished a PhD at an ivy league school. Her thesis was on machine learning (I don't remember the exact topic), and she took a research-oriented job at a startup. Her salary is higher than the average straight-from-undergrad newhire, but she's making about the same (a little less) than many of my friends who only have B.S. degrees and have been working for under two years.
I think my point is: if you're doing it for money, you probably shouldn't.
Rule:
I think it's really hard to tell. There are so many factors to consider. I'm inclined to agree that on average, a PhD (even in CS/Stats) isn't going to help someone make more money -- they'd probably make a bit less, especially over 5-10 years, than someone without. But at the very least, there will be a huge variance on that average.
These comparisons can be quite subtle. A PhD, and what one does during a PhD, could help someone who would not stand out from their undergraduate record/CV get a job that typically hires bachelors recipients. He or she may make the same as bachelors degree holders in that position, but they have a job they wouldn't have otherwise gotten. Factoring these sorts of scenarios together makes it hard to say, even on average, what monetary gain a PhD will bring. I know of someone who would have really struggled to get jobs with his CV after undergrad, but now has a PhD and a good publication record, and would really stand out on the job market.
In general, the connections can open a surprising number of doors in the long run. And after a few years, good quants can make $800,000/year. But I wouldn't encourage a PhD to someone who wouldn't at least enjoy the process.
nslay:
If you're asking about salary, then you shouldn't get a Ph.D. Wrong degree for you.
If you want to do research, then get a Ph.D.
Market not favoring the Ph.D.? I'm seeing loads of them shipping off to Google. I personally know 3 people who went to Google. I know of maybe 20 more who all went to Google, Netflix and Amazon. All of them have Ph.D.s. Just my bit of anecdotal evidence.
Oh, and as far as salary goes, I think I heard figures of about $180k to work at Netflix with a Ph.D. I heard similar salaries for Google and Amazon.
But yeah, in my opinion, you should only get a Ph.D. if you want to do research. Otherwise the training is a complete waste of time.
Sidoh:
I'd never say that people with PhDs have a hard time getting a job. I'm sure their task is no more difficult than someone without the extra training. I only meant to say it's very likely not a good financial investment. I know lots of people at those companies, some with PhDs, most without. I don't really think they generally care very much about the PhD.
Rule:
Here's a well-written well-sourced article weighing in on the general "is it worth getting a PhD?" discussion.
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