Author Topic: Religion  (Read 12003 times)

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Offline Furious

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Religion
« on: October 19, 2005, 09:58:19 pm »
I don't practice any religion but I do have some standpoints on things, and I don't normally ridicule someone for their beliefs unless I know they are wrong ( not the beliefs the person ) and they try to use religion to explain it.

Is there a heaven or a hell?

I believe in reincarnation personally, I think when we die, we are brought back to the earth as another creature.  So if you mudered someone in your life, you're going to come back as that ant I squashed last night :P
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Offline Sidoh

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Re: Religion
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2005, 10:02:11 pm »
I believe there is both.  I'm Christian, as you already know.

Lordy, you just like starting controversial discussion, don't you? :P

Offline Ergot

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Re: Religion
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2005, 10:11:02 pm »
In Ergotism we believe that when you die you go to Jamaica...

I somewhat believe in heaven and hell... or at least some sort of afterlife where you can choose to live again...
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Offline Joe

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2005, 10:24:31 pm »
I'm a Christian, sealed, signed, and judged. I feel so stupid for once being an atheist. Oh well.

Yes, there is a heaven. Its where we get to play World of Warcraft 24/7, no lag, no gank, no monthy fee. Theres also a hell. Its similar to being ganked by 5 60s at SM, when you're level 30.
I'd personally do as Joe suggests

You might be right about that, Joe.


Offline Blaze

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Re: Religion
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2005, 10:33:36 pm »
Yes, there is a heaven. Its where we get to play World of Warcraft 24/7, no lag, no gank, no monthy fee. Theres also a hell. Its similar to being ganked by 5 60s at SM, when you're level 30.

Thats happened to me serveral times... is that a good sign?  :D
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Offline Joe

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Re: Religion
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2005, 10:41:25 pm »
Which? =p
I'd personally do as Joe suggests

You might be right about that, Joe.


Offline Sty

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Re: Religion
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2005, 10:43:13 pm »
I believe if it can be explained... generally through science, then it's true. I wont believe in anything unless evidence is shown to me that it is actually fact.

Anyways, the belief in Heaven and Hell is called diabolism, when there's a good, there is also an evil of equal power, ftw.

Offline Joe

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Re: Religion
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2005, 10:54:51 pm »
I'm your buckleberry too, Sty! =p

Actually, theres not an evil of equal power, really. Satan may be the most evil thing in the universe, but hes still only a corrupt angel. The forces of good, God, is, well, God.
I'd personally do as Joe suggests

You might be right about that, Joe.


Offline iago

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Re: Religion
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2005, 11:40:08 pm »
I don't believe in a Heaven or Hell.  However, I do believe that humans have some kind of non-physical existance, and when we die, I don't know what happens to it.  In my opinion, you probably end up in the body of another creature being born.  However, contrary to what most people who believe in reincarnation think, I don't think it's possible to recover any memory, or anything else from your past lives.  You just move on with a new brain, new memories, new thoughts, new personality, and the same ol' conscience pushing it along. 

But, who knows?


Offline Armin

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Re: Religion
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2005, 12:32:59 am »
The only reason I have a problem with believing, is why would God punish us and send us to hell for not believing something told to us without any (or little) fact backing it up? The only possible thing I can think of is that if he does exist, he'll somehow prove himself to me and other agnostics. Until then, I'm agnostic.
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Offline Furious

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Re: Religion
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2005, 12:49:19 am »
   @Sidoh: I do like starting some kind of discussion, especially ones that I know will grab some attention.

And I agree with iago, I don't believe that it is possible to grab memory from a previous life if you will, I see more logic in reincarnation than I do with everyone of the past being put on Santa's naughty and nice list.

For example...lets just say there are...6 billion of us born per year, and it's the year 2000.

2000 x 6 = 12,000 billion

So people who believe in heaven and hell believe that there are multiple billions of souls, people, whatever you might call them, staying in heaven, or hell, I just see no logic in that, and I'm not trying to say that reincarnation shows logic, but it does make more sense IMO.
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[23:04:34] <deadly7[x86]> Newby[x86]
[23:04:35] <deadly7[x86]> YOU ARE AN EMO
[23:04:39] <Newby[x86]> shush it woman

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[17:53:31] InsaneJoey[e2] was banned by x86 (GO EAT A BAG OF FUCK ASSHOLE (randomban)).

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Offline MyndFyre

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Re: Religion
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2005, 01:01:33 am »
The only reason I have a problem with believing, is why would God punish us and send us to hell for not believing something told to us without any (or little) fact backing it up? The only possible thing I can think of is that if he does exist, he'll somehow prove himself to me and other agnostics. Until then, I'm agnostic.

If you were God, would you rather:
1.) Have a race of people who had to worship you, or
2.) Have a group of people out of a race who freely choose to worship you?

Contrary to the popular belief of fire, hell is characterized in the Bible as an eternity without God.  The pain on the soul is still there -- "it shall be as weeping and the gnashing of teeth."  The largest pain is knowing ultimately that you have a creator who wanted nothing but to love you, but because you continually rejected that love, his reward is to send you away from him forever.

By the way, to answer my own question, I'd rather have the second (I was going to write #2, but then I thought, nah, someone's going to tell me to go take a dump or something, then it would end up in someone's signature... meh).  What good is it for people to say they love you but they only do it because you make them?

@Furious: your estimation of 6 billion per year is... well, slightly off.  This book indicates the birthrate is closer to 133 million per year.

Also, why is it illogical to assume that many billions of people can fit in a noncorporeal place of arbitrary size?

Also, the year "0" is an arbitrary point in the course of human history; Biblical scholars estimate the earth's age to be closer to 4,750 years last I read.
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Offline iago

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Re: Religion
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2005, 01:08:51 am »
If heaven does exist, and I'm not going to totally discount the possibility that it does, I don't think it would be anything like the forms we imagine.  Like, people seem to think of a place with clouds and flowers and angels with harps.  But I'm reasonably sure that that's just an interpretation of the true Heaven made by people who don't understand it.  I don't know what a real heaven would look like, and I don't know what the Bible says about it (can somebody help me out there?), but it's not the way we all imagine it.

A couple notes, and keep in mind that these are just my thoughts, are:
- We can't see heaven with a powerful telescope.  It's not a physical place. 
- We don't have our physical bodies or forms.  We wouldn't be able to walk around, or talk, or anything like that. 
- As a result of that, we don't have our senses.  We can't see, hear, feel, etc. 
- There are billions and billions of people there.  But it doesn't fill up, because space is a physical idea.  And everybody who ever was or ever will be is there, because time is also a physical idea.  [while I was typing this, MM said the same thing, we can't both be wrong :); the problem is that you refer to it as "non-corporeal" with "arbitrary size" -- size is a corporeal idea, and wouldn't apply to a non-corporeal place.  Imagining non-corporeal things is very difficult. ]
- God isn't a person (neither man nor woman).  It has no physical form, and you can't possibly "meet" It, the way we understand the word "meet".  Perhaps you enter the same plane of existance that It is in, but it would be nothing like meeting another person. 

So we have no light, no space, no time, no senses.  That makes me wonder what it DOES have. 

Please show me what the Bible says about Heaven, if somebody knows where to look.  I'm rather curious how what I figure it would be like compares to what others say.

Offline Ergot

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Re: Religion
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2005, 01:15:10 am »
It's in a parallel dimension ;O ?
Who gives a damn? I fuck sheep all the time.
And yes, male both ends.  There are a couple lesbians that need a two-ended dildo...My router just refuses to wear a strap-on.
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Offline Armin

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Re: Religion
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2005, 01:21:17 am »
The only reason I have a problem with believing, is why would God punish us and send us to hell for not believing something told to us without any (or little) fact backing it up? The only possible thing I can think of is that if he does exist, he'll somehow prove himself to me and other agnostics. Until then, I'm agnostic.

If you were God, would you rather:
1.) Have a race of people who had to worship you, or
2.) Have a group of people out of a race who freely choose to worship you?

Contrary to the popular belief of fire, hell is characterized in the Bible as an eternity without God.  The pain on the soul is still there -- "it shall be as weeping and the gnashing of teeth."  The largest pain is knowing ultimately that you have a creator who wanted nothing but to love you, but because you continually rejected that love, his reward is to send you away from him forever.

By the way, to answer my own question, I'd rather have the second (I was going to write #2, but then I thought, nah, someone's going to tell me to go take a dump or something, then it would end up in someone's signature... meh).  What good is it for people to say they love you but they only do it because you make them?
I don't think you read what I said. What I was saying is that I don't think God would basically punish me ("it shall be as weeping and the gnashing of teeth.") because I didn't believe some book that said he loved me, and that said he supposedly existed without giving any proof at all. If he gives people choice to believe in him or not, he probably knows that some people won't believe some book because some people don't believe just anything that they read, so I feel that he proves himself to people like me, which brings me back to my statement: I'm staying agnostic until he gives me reason to believe he exists.
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