Voting machines

[iago]

These facts (which all have sources) are very scary:

Did you know....
1.  80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies:  Diebold and ES&S.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold

 
2.  There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

 
3.  The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/private_company.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

 
4.  The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886

 
5.  Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S.  He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031004Fitrakis/031004fitrakis.html

 
6.  Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=26

http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx

http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php

 
7.  Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm

http://theindependent.com/stories/052700/new_hagel27.html

 
8.  ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

 
9.  Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes.  In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041020evotestates/pfindex.html

 
10.  Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm

 
11.  Diebold is based in Ohio.

http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm

 
12.  Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as consultants and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml

 
13.  Jeff Dean was Senior Vice-President of Global Election Systems when it was bought by Diebold.  Even though he had been convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree, Jeff Dean was retained as a consultant by Diebold and was largely responsible for programming the optical scanning software now used in most of the United States.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0312/S00191.htm
http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

 
14.  Diebold consultant Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

 
15.  None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/26/loc_elexoh.html

 
16.  California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad.  Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it!  (See the movie here:  http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov.)

http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190

 
17.  30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml

 
18.  All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm

http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html

http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=950

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm

 
19.  The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/7628725.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10544-2004Oct29.html

 
20.  Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm

http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,10801,97614,00.html

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/tens_of_thousands.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html

http://uscountvotes.org/
 

NOTE:  Please copy the above list and distribute freely!
LET THE FACTS BE KNOWN!  Thank you!

[Sidoh]

Wow, that's horrible.  Thanks for sharing, iago.

[Screenor]

I say x86 start a voting machines company to fix this problem immidietly.

[Hitmen]

The link to the video supposedly containing a hacking chimpanzee does not work.
This post sucks.

[iago]

That sucks.  The video used to work, it was very cute, but that was months ago

[Hitmen]

 

[zorm]

You just violated your own rule by forwarding email spam when it tells you too, good job.

9.  Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes.  In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

10.  Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

The whole idea of a paper trail is misleading. Nothings going to stop the machine from printing one thing while recording another. I don't think the technology exists for a solution to this problem yet, if it does im sure the record companies would be all over it to protect their cds.

[iago]

You just violated your own rule by forwarding email spam when it tells you too, good job.

9.  Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes.  In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

10.  Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

The whole idea of a paper trail is misleading. Nothings going to stop the machine from printing one thing while recording another. I don't think the technology exists for a solution to this problem yet, if it does im sure the record companies would be all over it to protect their cds.

It was actually from a website, but because of that disclaimer (and this is why I included it), I pasted it here instead of hotlinking.  Technically, the link DID arrive in an email, but it was part of a discussion in a mailing list.  It's more of a license than a request/demand, though

And you're right about the paper trail.  The ideal one is where you physically write down, or punch out, who you want to vote for.  Then, even though a machine is reading it in, you can still go back and count the holes.  Some talk was about a machine that would visually punch out the card and add it to a stack, and you could watch it do the punching.  That would be a more ideal solution. 

[ZeroX]

Damn that sucks no wonder bush was re-elected.

[AntiVirus]

Damn that sucks no wonder bush was re-elected.

Or maybe because the majority of the United States Citizens support Bush and his campaign.

I just don't think it would make sense if it was rigged.  Clinton was elected and he was democratic.  And it seems to me that the people who count these votes are primarily republican, so why would they allow that?

[iago]

Damn that sucks no wonder bush was re-elected.

Or maybe because the majority of the United States Citizens support Bush and his campaign.

I just don't think it would make sense if it was rigged.  Clinton was elected and he was democratic.  And it seems to me that the people who count these votes are primarily republican, so why would they allow that?

Clinton's votes weren't put into a machine, but Bush's were.  The machines are a new invention marketed by a crooked company who promised Bush the election and who has rigged back-doors into devices before.  The guy running it is a known criminal, and he does have a political agenda. 

Did you read the points?  That's the scary part. 

And whether or not Bush would be in on it is another question.  There is absolutely no evidence that Bush knew it was going on.  But that doesn't make it any less possible.

[AntiVirus]

Damn that sucks no wonder bush was re-elected.

Or maybe because the majority of the United States Citizens support Bush and his campaign.

I just don't think it would make sense if it was rigged.  Clinton was elected and he was democratic.  And it seems to me that the people who count these votes are primarily republican, so why would they allow that?

Clinton's votes weren't put into a machine, but Bush's were.  The machines are a new invention marketed by a crooked company who promised Bush the election and who has rigged back-doors into devices before.  The guy running it is a known criminal, and he does have a political agenda. 

Did you read the points?  That's the scary part. 

And whether or not Bush would be in on it is another question.  There is absolutely no evidence that Bush knew it was going on.  But that doesn't make it any less possible.

Not all of them, I was in a hurry because I was leaving class soon.

[iago]

Damn that sucks no wonder bush was re-elected.

Or maybe because the majority of the United States Citizens support Bush and his campaign.

I just don't think it would make sense if it was rigged.  Clinton was elected and he was democratic.  And it seems to me that the people who count these votes are primarily republican, so why would they allow that?

Clinton's votes weren't put into a machine, but Bush's were.  The machines are a new invention marketed by a crooked company who promised Bush the election and who has rigged back-doors into devices before.  The guy running it is a known criminal, and he does have a political agenda. 

Did you read the points?  That's the scary part. 

And whether or not Bush would be in on it is another question.  There is absolutely no evidence that Bush knew it was going on.  But that doesn't make it any less possible.

Not all of them, I was in a hurry because I was leaving class soon.

Well, go back and read them, and read the sources for them if you don't believe.  Then stop and wonder how your government can be selected by such an obviously dangerous method.

[Joe]

Or maybe because the majority of the United States Citizens support Bush and his campaign.

Recent polls say otherwise. About 39% support him.

This is BS. The day I turn 18 I'm in Canada. Ron, mind if I pitch a tent in your backyard?

[iago]

Depends what you mean by "pitch a tent"

[Joe]

Well, for my 18th birthday, I'll have my parents take me to Wal-Mart and buy a 20-man tent plus a blow-up matress (I'm a big man, not that big, but I like my space =p). I'll grab some blankets from home and hop on a plane to the Winnipeg International Airport, with my tent and bag. We jet over to your house, I go out back, and pitch my tent, and live there for a few weeks (days, if we're (yes, you too =p) lucky), until I find a house, where I can Canadianly live. =)

[iago]

Mkay.. what time of year is your birthday?  Because right now, you might not want a tent:

for i in 1 2 3 4 5 5 6 7; wget http://www.javaop.com/~iago/snow$i.jpg; done

[Blaze]

Joe, its expensive to live in the Winnipeg area, more then you could afford I do believe.

[zorm]

And you're right about the paper trail.  The ideal one is where you physically write down, or punch out, who you want to vote for.  Then, even though a machine is reading it in, you can still go back and count the holes.  Some talk was about a machine that would visually punch out the card and add it to a stack, and you could watch it do the punching.  That would be a more ideal solution. 

Of course that doesn't fix anything because the ballot would have to include the names for the holes so you know its punched out the right one. Then they will have to make a bigger ballot so that it could include names in 172pt font so that even the retards in Florida can read them. But even this won't stop corruptness if it should want to occur and it also doesn't stop the voters from going "OH! I think I really voted for the other guy but I'm not really sure!" after the fact.

My belief is that the country was truely split 50%/50% on the election and as such any sort of vote rigging had to be kept to an obsolute minimum. Its a hell of a risk for you, everyone involved with you and your entire party if you get caught rigging an election.

How old is this anyhow? Ever noticed how as time passes the conspiracy theories start to flow out, it tends to be when the truth starts to fade from peoples minds and it becomes easier to 'invent' facts.

[Joe]

Mkay.. what time of year is your birthday? Because right now, you might not want a tent:

for i in 1 2 3 4 5 5 6 7; wget http://www.javaop.com/~iago/snow$i.jpg; done

Don't make fun of me because my dad thinks hes cool by making me use Windows. =(. PS: You download 5 twice. We have snow too.

PPS: Semtember 25th, 2008 (18) and September 25th, 2021 (21) are the best days ever.

[Blaze]

PPS: Semtember 25th, 2008 (18) and September 25th, 2021 (21) are the best days ever.

31*

[iago]

And you're right about the paper trail.  The ideal one is where you physically write down, or punch out, who you want to vote for.  Then, even though a machine is reading it in, you can still go back and count the holes.  Some talk was about a machine that would visually punch out the card and add it to a stack, and you could watch it do the punching.  That would be a more ideal solution. 

Of course that doesn't fix anything because the ballot would have to include the names for the holes so you know its punched out the right one. Then they will have to make a bigger ballot so that it could include names in 172pt font so that even the retards in Florida can read them. But even this won't stop corruptness if it should want to occur and it also doesn't stop the voters from going "OH! I think I really voted for the other guy but I'm not really sure!" after the fact.

My belief is that the country was truely split 50%/50% on the election and as such any sort of vote rigging had to be kept to an obsolute minimum. Its a hell of a risk for you, everyone involved with you and your entire party if you get caught rigging an election.

How old is this anyhow? Ever noticed how as time passes the conspiracy theories start to flow out, it tends to be when the truth starts to fade from peoples minds and it becomes easier to 'invent' facts.

If there was any rigging done, I doubt it was done by the party itself.  They probably tried to wash their hands of it, and may not have even known about it. 

I'm not sure when this was written, but I know it was discussed before, during, and after the 2004 election.  I read a paper about it called "How George Bush won the 2004 election", written in 2003, detailing some of these facts. 

But if you really don't believe it, how do you dispute some of the facts there?

[AntiVirus]

Or maybe because the majority of the United States Citizens support Bush and his campaign.

Recent polls say otherwise. About 39% support him.

This is BS. The day I turn 18 I'm in Canada. Ron, mind if I pitch a tent in your backyard?

Maybe now, but the majority did support him.

I honestly still do not believe that they could pull something off like that without someone doing something about it.  It doesn't make sense.  There has had to be an investigation into this, seeing that the democratic party wouldn't put up with it.  And by now, I am sure they have heard about what you have just said Ron.  I still think it's a load of crap, but that's just me. 

[Krazed]

PPS: Semtember 25th, 2008 (18) and September 25th, 2021 (21) are the best days ever.

31*

Uhh.. It takes you 13 years to go from 18 to 21?

[Blaze]

PPS: Semtember 25th, 2008 (18) and September 25th, 2021 (21) are the best days ever.

31*

Uhh.. It takes you 13 years to go from 18 to 21?

Yeah, hes special and only ages once every 1.something years.

[zorm]

If there was any rigging done, I doubt it was done by the party itself.  They probably tried to wash their hands of it, and may not have even known about it. 

I'm not sure when this was written, but I know it was discussed before, during, and after the 2004 election.  I read a paper about it called "How George Bush won the 2004 election", written in 2003, detailing some of these facts. 

But if you really don't believe it, how do you dispute some of the facts there?

I don't dispute the facts because they are just that facts. However, what these facts have to do with anything is beyond me. Take 11. for example

11.  Diebold is based in Ohio.

and then from the source cited

Founded in 1859, the company employs more than 14,000 associates with representation in nearly 90 countries worldwide and headquarters in Canton, Ohio, USA.

Well holy shit these guys are really fucking good at predicting the future to know in 1859 that in 2004 Ohio would be a big deal state in an election.

Then we have other things like

6.  Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

However yet again from the source cited we get

Hagel has not been accused of any legal or ethical violation and his staff denies that there has been any wrongdoing.

So clearly the fact on the list is a load of crap. I didn't feel like doing any others but perhaps if I get bored I will.

[iago]

If there was any rigging done, I doubt it was done by the party itself.  They probably tried to wash their hands of it, and may not have even known about it. 

I'm not sure when this was written, but I know it was discussed before, during, and after the 2004 election.  I read a paper about it called "How George Bush won the 2004 election", written in 2003, detailing some of these facts. 

But if you really don't believe it, how do you dispute some of the facts there?

I don't dispute the facts because they are just that facts. However, what these facts have to do with anything is beyond me. Take 11. for example

11.  Diebold is based in Ohio.

and then from the source cited

Founded in 1859, the company employs more than 14,000 associates with representation in nearly 90 countries worldwide and headquarters in Canton, Ohio, USA.

Well holy shit these guys are really fucking good at predicting the future to know in 1859 that in 2004 Ohio would be a big deal state in an election.

Then we have other things like

6.  Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

However yet again from the source cited we get

Hagel has not been accused of any legal or ethical violation and his staff denies that there has been any wrongdoing.

So clearly the fact on the list is a load of crap. I didn't feel like doing any others but perhaps if I get bored I will.

I agree that 11 is dumb, and I don't care about it.  It was probably there to pad the list

6 is more surprising, but it's also not a terribly important one.  Why don't you pick the important ones if you're going to do any?

[zorm]

Which ones are the important ones? They all look equally sucky to me.

15.  None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

Then from the source article yet again

It's not Blackwell - it's the law, countered Carlo LoParo, Blackwell's spokesman.

"They're not the only ones being excluded," he said.

Only a few groups are allowed inside polling places, including poll workers, voters, vote challengers, witnesses and police. Anyone else must stay at least 100 feet away from the entrance.

Clearly helps if its noted that its the law and not a selective decision to reject international election observers.

18.  All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

Yet...

In Palm Beach county, analysis showed that Bush should have gained only 17,000 votes. But instead he gained 57,000. In Miami-Dade county he was expected to gain votes, but by much less than he actually did. According to the researchers he should have received only 29,000 more votes, but he actually gained 44,000 votes.

Both Broward and Miami-Dade counties use machines made by Election Systems & Software, while Palm Beach county uses machines made by Sequoia Voting Systems. No Florida counties used touch-screen machines made by Diebold Election Systems, the company whose machines have received the most scrutiny over the last year.

Clearly ES&S was at fault but whats this Sequoia did it too and theres nothing bad about Sequoia here?! Noticed how Florida doesn't use Diebold machines either. Also note this is the exact same point as 20 so the list even has repeats.

It should be rather clear now that this list is just a bunch of BS by some desperate people who are in the 49% that hate Bush.

[GameSnake]

Wow if all that was true then now i'm 100% certin your country [USA] is ran by profit mongers and not the people, definitly would get the ball rolling on an impeachment or something.

[iago]

Which ones are the important ones? They all look equally sucky to me.

15.  None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

Then from the source article yet again

It's not Blackwell - it's the law, countered Carlo LoParo, Blackwell's spokesman.

"They're not the only ones being excluded," he said.

Only a few groups are allowed inside polling places, including poll workers, voters, vote challengers, witnesses and police. Anyone else must stay at least 100 feet away from the entrance.

Clearly helps if its noted that its the law and not a selective decision to reject international election observers.

18.  All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

Yet...

In Palm Beach county, analysis showed that Bush should have gained only 17,000 votes. But instead he gained 57,000. In Miami-Dade county he was expected to gain votes, but by much less than he actually did. According to the researchers he should have received only 29,000 more votes, but he actually gained 44,000 votes.

Both Broward and Miami-Dade counties use machines made by Election Systems & Software, while Palm Beach county uses machines made by Sequoia Voting Systems. No Florida counties used touch-screen machines made by Diebold Election Systems, the company whose machines have received the most scrutiny over the last year.

Clearly ES&S was at fault but whats this Sequoia did it too and theres nothing bad about Sequoia here?! Noticed how Florida doesn't use Diebold machines either. Also note this is the exact same point as 20 so the list even has repeats.

It should be rather clear now that this list is just a bunch of BS by some desperate people who are in the 49% that hate Bush.

Good points. 

But I still think that this is a very valid concern.  Whether or not it actually happened isn't important, the fact that it could happen is what worries me, and if it does happen, nobody will know (no paper trail, and people will just be called sore losers).  I'm hoping they put more thought into the next election