Bullshit Email

[Armin]

I got a total bullshit email and I thought I'd post it here.

     IRAQ - VERY INTERESTING - DID YOU KNOW?


     1. The Garden of Eden was in Iraq
     2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!
     3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.
     4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.
     5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!
     6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq.
     7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.
     8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.
     9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.
     10. Amos cried out in Iraq!
     11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.
     12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!
     13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!)
    14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.
     15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.
     16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.
     17. The wise men were from Iraq.
    18. Peter preached in Iraq.
     19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon, which was a city in Iraq!

     And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible. The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia. The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The name, Iraq, means country with deep roots.

     Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.   No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy associated it than Iraq. And also.. This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

     The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

     Koran (9:11):  For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

     (Note the verse number!)

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_quran_911.htm

[iago]

Yeah, I've seen that before. 

This thread deserves a fate worse than death......... a move to Joe's forum.  To bad he doesn't have one anymore

[Joe]

Time for Reverend Joe to shoot these down one at a time.

1. The Garden of Eden was in Iraq

Wrong, so wrong. The Garden of Eden was in Israel, or heaven. I'm not really sure where man was created, in heaven or earth.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

Define cradle of civilization? If it means where it started, wrong! Judea, Samaria, and Israel is where the first civilization was, not Iraq.

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

Israel: 1
Iraq: 0

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.

Genesis 11:1 - Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
Genesis 11:2 - As men moved eastward, [a] they found a plain in Shinar (That is, Babylonia) and settled there.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2011;&version=31;#fen-NIV-269b

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

Genesis 17:8 - The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=17&version=31&context=chapter

6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq.

I can neither confirm nor deny, as in "Isaac and Rebekah" (Genesis 24) it doesn't state where shes from.

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.
8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.
9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.
10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.

And you know why? To punish the sinning Jews, because God let them.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!
13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!)
14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.
15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.
16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.
17. The wise men were from Iraq.
18. Peter preached in Iraq.
19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon, which was a city in Iraq!

I didn't feel like researching each and every one, but the research I did do should show you that this is illegit. =p

EDIT -
Might be worth noting why I believe that the book of Mormon and the book of Koran are not part of the bible: Deuteronomy 4:2. Of course, anything after the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) is illegit too, according to that, but of course Jesus rocks and stuff, so thats canceled out, and rewritten again in Revelations.

[Sidoh]

Time for Reverend Joe to shoot these down one at a time.

1. The Garden of Eden was in Iraq

Wrong, so wrong. The Garden of Eden was in Israel, or heaven. I'm not really sure where man was created, in heaven or earth.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

Define cradle of civilization? If it means where it started, wrong! Judea, Samaria, and Israel is where the first civilization was, not Iraq.

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

Israel: 1
Iraq: 0

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.

Genesis 11:1 - Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
Genesis 11:2 - As men moved eastward, [a] they found a plain in Shinar (That is, Babylonia) and settled there.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2011;&version=31;#fen-NIV-269b

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

Genesis 17:8 - The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=17&version=31&context=chapter

6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq.

I can neither confirm nor deny, as in "Isaac and Rebekah" (Genesis 24) it doesn't state where shes from.

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.
8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.
9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.
10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.

And you know why? To punish the sinning Jews, because God let them.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!
13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!)
14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.
15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.
16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.
17. The wise men were from Iraq.
18. Peter preached in Iraq.
19. The "Empire of Man" described in Revelation is called Babylon, which was a city in Iraq!

I didn't feel like researching each and every one, but the research I did do should show you that this is illegit. =p

EDIT -
Might be worth noting why I believe that the book of Mormon and the book of Koran are not part of the bible: Deuteronomy 4:2. Of course, anything after the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) is illegit too, according to that, but of course Jesus rocks and stuff, so thats canceled out, and rewritten again in Revelations.

I don't feel like replying to all of your points, because that would take so long.

According to the bible, man was created on Earth.  Why would God have created the heavens and the Earth and put man in Heaven?  Then Earth whould be practically pointless.

Actually, it's quite correct that Iraq is Mesopotamia.  It is where some of the earliest civilizations existed.  Just because it wasn't where Adam and Eve were created doesn't mean it isn't the cradle of civilization.  Adam and Eve alone weren't exactly a civilization...

That's all I feel like retorting right now.

[Joe]

Eh, well, I haven't taken area studies yet, and I'm rather sure that we won't be busting out our bibles and refering to them too often when we talk about Iraq.

I'd be kinda interesting to hear you're responce to my Mormon/Koran thing, though. Big thanks to Travis for pointing that out to us in Sunday School.

[Sidoh]

Eh, well, I haven't taken area studies yet, and I'm rather sure that we won't be busting out our bibles and refering to them too often when we talk about Iraq.

I'd be kinda interesting to hear you're responce to my Mormon/Koran thing, though. Big thanks to Travis for pointing that out to us in Sunday School.

Well if you're Christian and believe the bible in itself is the inherent word of God (it was written through people by the will of God), then you also believe that no human living today can write something that should be considered God's word.  The book of Mormon was written about 250 years ago, so yeah... that's pretty much a given.  I don't know about the Koran, though.  I've never read it.  The Book of Mormon is ludicrous.

[Joe]

According to the Mormon beliefs, an angel came to a man and told him where to find the book of Mormon 'encoded' on some tablets, and how to decode them. Aparently, Jesus visited the US (Texas, I believe) while he was here on Earth and wrote it. I don't believe it.

It was written in Deuteronomy that you should never add or subtract from the Torah, but when the messiah came, he could obviously cancel that out. Exodus 20:3 is another example. Judiasm was monothestic (or whatever), because Jehovah was the only God. Of course, Exodus 20:3 was now canceled out, because we now have not only Jehovah, but Jesus and the Holy Spirit. When the Christian Bible was finished being written, it was written again, not to add or subtract from the bible.

[Sidoh]

According to the Mormon beliefs, an angel came to a man and told him where to find the book of Mormon 'encoded' on some tablets, and how to decode them. Aparently, Jesus visited the US (Texas, I believe) while he was here on Earth and wrote it. I don't believe it.

So did that guy on acid.  Oh wait, that was Joseph Smith.

[Joe]

LOL

[Chavo]

There are so many errors in every religious argmument of this thread that I won't even start (except for the fact that Mormons are completely nuts).

[Sidoh]

There are so many errors in every religious argmument of this thread that I won't even start (except for the fact that Mormons are completely nuts).

Why?  Because Joe believes every word the bible says?  Just because you don't doesn't mean they're "errors."  Religion is a completely subjective matter, and so are accusations against it.

[rabbit]

No.  There are.  There was a show on NPR yesterday where a religion professor (college in SC, forget which) was talking about how the Bible has many discrepencies, between books and versions (IE: Luke vs Matthew about the crucifixion).  Scribes would add in and take out things as they saw fit.  There are definately errors.

[Joe]

My interpertation of Luke and Matthew was that he was crucified twice. Isn't that right? =/. I kinda thought the bible was written chronilogically, which means that he was crucified, then crucified again when it was written again.

[rabbit]

No.  Many of Jesus' apostles wrote what they "experienced."  They were all at the crucifiction, but their stories conflict.  They are all speaking of the same event.  It's the same with his birth, and, according to Luke, Jesus was talking about the Jewish leaders who turned him over to the Romans when he prayed for their forgiveness, meaning Jesus forgave the Jews.

[iago]

My interpertation of Luke and Matthew was that he was crucified twice. Isn't that right? =/. I kinda thought the bible was written chronilogically, which means that he was crucified, then crucified again when it was written again.

I really hope you're joking about that...

[MyndFyre]

My interpertation of Luke and Matthew was that he was crucified twice. Isn't that right? =/. I kinda thought the bible was written chronilogically, which means that he was crucified, then crucified again when it was written again.

Yeah....  I hope you're joking, too.  John isn't even CLOSE to being chronological.

Matthew is the only book that directly relates Jesus' birth, so I don't know how they could have discrepancies.

I don't think the stories of the crucifixion contradict, either.  Granted, I don't read them all the time, but I think they're fairly correspondent.

When Jesus was praying for their forgiveness ("forgive them, Father"), he WAS talking about the people who were turning them over to the Romans.  However, if you read the Bible, you'll learn that Jesus' death was for the forgiveness of humanity (Jesus said so himself) to anyone who accepted this gift.

About mormons: early in Joseph Smith (Jr.)'s life, he claimed to be praying one night (according to James) and asking God which church was the right one.  Supposedly God came to him in a vision and said to join none, that they were all abominations in His sight.  About 12 years later, Joseph was praying in the woods in upstate New York (I think the city was called Elmyra or some redneck name like that) when an angel named Moroni came to him and led him to a series of golden plates.  Moroni was supposedly the last contributor to this new scripture.  The plates were supposedly written in some form of Egyptian heiroglyphic.  Moroni presented to Joseph two Biblical artifacts, the Urim and Thummin (which if you look up, are pieces to a breastplate) which Joseph used to translate the plates.  The result was published in 1832, the Book of Mormon.  Since its publication, there have been at least 3913 documented changes, some major ones (including deletion or addition of passages).  Conveniently, after the plates were translated, Moroni took them to heaven.

The link I provided is the organization that first documented these changes and are one of the most authoritative sources on mormon apologetics.

[Sidoh]

That's a really nice page on the changes to the Book of Mormon.  Thanks for the reference.

[ZeroX]

That's a really nice page on the changes to the Book of Mormon.  Thanks for the reference.

I find the Mormon faith as useless as man having nipples. Iam sorry if I offended anybody by that comment. I might have been brougth up wrong in that senes but, I heard mormons are the same as christans in almost all ways. They belive in Christ and go to church on sundays. I think the only real differnce is that Mormons go on a 2 year missions while christans dont.

[Sidoh]

That's a really nice page on the changes to the Book of Mormon.  Thanks for the reference.

I find the Mormon faith as useless as man having nipples. Iam sorry if I offended anybody by that comment. I might have been brougth up wrong in that senes but, I heard mormons are the same as christans in almost all ways. They belive in Christ and go to church on sundays. I think the only real differnce is that Mormons go on a 2 year missions while christans dont.

LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL  LOL !!!

Sorry, I don't usually do that.  Mormonism and Christianity are about the same as white and black.

[MyndFyre]

Sorry, I don't usually do that.  Mormonism and Christianity are about the same as white and black.

I particularly like the criterion that all Christians go to church on Sundays.  Mmhmm.

[Joe]

*rummages around on his desk*

Mormons: There is another Testament of Jesus Christ. The Book of Moroon, another Testament of Jesus Christ, is a companion volume of scripture to the Holy Bible and contains the account of the Savior's apperance in ancient America following his resurrection.

Bible: Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelations 22:18-19

Theres more but I gotta go.

[MyndFyre]

Bible: Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelations 22:18-19

I don't use these as criteria for judging the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon (or its value as scripture).  Several books and letters were written following John's revelation (yes, that's "Revelation," not "Revelations"), and as canon they were not ordered into what we'd call The Bible until well after any of them was written.

One good criterion for that, though, is the true test of a prophet: when someone speaks something in the name of God (prophesies), and it does not happen, then he is a false prophet.  I think Joseph Smith qualifies.