Why?

[deadly7]

Well, I guess that after I've been using slack for a couple months almost daily [well, whenever I use this computer I boot up slack on my other one] and I can't see why you guys are all like, in love with it.  So I guess the most basic question I can ask is: Why do you like *nix-based operating systems?
I can say that there are a couple of things that I like it about it, but I dunno.. it's hard to use.  It sure as hell isn't because of the GUI because I use command prompt for lots of things on Windoze.  What I DO like about *nix is that it's exploits are patched up pretty quickly and it's generally updated a few times a year (3-4?).  Something I don't like though is playing like, game and driver support.  Sure you can use WINE to play games, but I'm Linux-retarded and I asked someone (I think it was iago ) if it was hard to set up and he said yeah.

[Newby]

Well, I guess that after I've been using slack for a couple months almost daily [well, whenever I use this computer I boot up slack on my other one] and I can't see why you guys are all like, in love with it.  So I guess the most basic question I can ask is: Why do you like *nix-based operating systems?

I can counter that question with: why do you NOT like Slackware compared to Winders?

I can say that there are a couple of things that I like it about it, but I dunno.. it's hard to use.

What's hard about it? Is it something that we can't help you solve? I'm nearly on the computer 24/7, so I could help.

It sure as hell isn't because of the GUI because I use command prompt for lots of things on Windoze.

You do? I hate the command prompt in Windows. It's terrible. Any shell is better than wsh (Windows Shell!) IMO.

What I DO like about *nix is that it's exploits are patched up pretty quickly and it's generally updated a few times a year (3-4?). 

Uh, I don't care much about the fact that exploits are patched relatively quickly. That isn't Linux, that's the software vendors. =P

As for the kernel, updated 3-4 times a year? Lmfao.

http://www.kernel.org

The 2.6 series is patched a few times a week last time I checked. It's probably impossible to stay 100% up-to-date on a 2.6 kernel.

2.4, maybe. I'm on 2.4.31 and there's only been one revision since I've checked.

Something I don't like though is playing like, game and driver support.

Game support?

http://www.happypenguin.org
http://www.google.com

Both are your friends for games!

Driver support? I've got you there. I hate installing drivers, but eh? I hate installing drivers in Windows more. It's automated so it's out of my control. At least in Linux I can install drivers and realize if it doesn't work, I fucked up.

Something I don't like though is playing like, game and driver support.  Sure you can use WINE to play games, but I'm Linux-retarded and I asked someone (I think it was iago ) if it was hard to set up and he said yeah.

Uhm, you haven't tried? Why don't you try before you judge.

[deadly7]

Well, I guess that after I've been using slack for a couple months almost daily [well, whenever I use this computer I boot up slack on my other one] and I can't see why you guys are all like, in love with it.  So I guess the most basic question I can ask is: Why do you like *nix-based operating systems?

I can counter that question with: why do you NOT like Slackware compared to Winders?

Harder to use, can't play games on it, plus my computer that it's on sucks.

I can say that there are a couple of things that I like it about it, but I dunno.. it's hard to use.

What's hard about it? Is it something that we can't help you solve? I'm nearly on the computer 24/7, so I could help.

Basically, if you want to do ANYTHING with it, you have to know BASH back and forward.  That takes lots of time and lots of reading of man pages.  You almost got me to rm -rf / while not as root because I'm a linux newb.   And it's not that I can't get help for it, but it's more that if I get help I'll be a lazy asshole and forget it as opposed to learning it myself and actually remembering it.  I remember stuff a bit more now (like, import, make, make-get, install) when I actually use it/figure out what it does.

It sure as hell isn't because of the GUI because I use command prompt for lots of things on Windoze.

You do? I hate the command prompt in Windows. It's terrible. Any shell is better than wsh (Windows Shell!) IMO.

I'm not saying it's the greatest, but it gets the job done.  I think that BASH is better to use, but they didn't make a BASH for Windows.

What I DO like about *nix is that it's exploits are patched up pretty quickly and it's generally updated a few times a year (3-4?). 

Uh, I don't care much about the fact that exploits are patched relatively quickly. That isn't Linux, that's the software vendors. =P

As for the kernel, updated 3-4 times a year? Lmfao.
http://www.kernel.org

The 2.6 series is patched a few times a week last time I checked. It's probably impossible to stay 100% up-to-date on a 2.6 kernel.

2.4, maybe. I'm on 2.4.31 and there's only been one revision since I've checked.

I meant the software vendors patching their operating systems and releasing new updates. :|

Something I don't like though is playing like, game and driver support.

Game support?

http://www.happypenguin.org
http://www.google.com

Both are your friends for games!

Driver support? I've got you there. I hate installing drivers, but eh? I hate installing drivers in Windows more. It's automated so it's out of my control. At least in Linux I can install drivers and realize if it doesn't work, I fucked up.

It's not automated on Windows, I reformatted recently [summer] and I had to download all the different drivers.  While they weren't downloaded, my computer like exploded six times [loaded a graphical site and it went POOF!].  Also, about games (points up near top of post).

Something I don't like though is playing like, game and driver support.  Sure you can use WINE to play games, but I'm Linux-retarded and I asked someone (I think it was iago ) if it was hard to set up and he said yeah.

Uhm, you haven't tried? Why don't you try before you judge.

No, I haven't tried.  I didn't even know how to install slapt-get by myself, I doubt I could install WINE.

[Newby]

Harder to use, can't play games on it, plus my computer that it's on sucks.

That's only because you aren't used to it. Yes you can, I play games regularly. Hell, I was playing Neverwinter Nights 'til 2am for most of the first week of winter break. Doesn't matter if your computer is good, the idea is that Linux can run on an absolutely shitty computer and run on it well.

I ran Slackware on a 233 Mhz 64mb RAM 3GB HDD with some terrible onboard graphics card. It was awesome.

Basically, if you want to do ANYTHING with it, you have to know BASH back and forward.  That takes lots of time and lots of reading of man pages.  You almost got me to rm -rf / while not as root because I'm a linux newb.   And it's not that I can't get help for it, but it's more that if I get help I'll be a lazy asshole and forget it as opposed to learning it myself and actually remembering it.  I remember stuff a bit more now (like, import, make, make-get, install) when I actually use it/figure out what it does.

You don't have to know BASH forward and backward. You have to know basic commands, half of which aren't even integrated into the shell you're using (hence you can use csh/tcsh/zsh/sh with the same commands, only the syntax differs) and the easiest way to figure out how to use a command:

man <command name here>

If you're interested in how to use the import command, type man import and bam, a manual page comes up!

It's not automated on Windows, I reformatted recently [summer] and I had to download all the different drivers.  While they weren't downloaded, my computer like exploded six times [loaded a graphical site and it went POOF!].  Also, about games (points up near top of post).

Well, the installation and configuration are mostly automatic compared to Linux!

No, I haven't tried.  I didn't even know how to install slapt-get by myself, I doubt I could install WINE.

It isn't that hard. Download the Slackware package and pkginstall <whateverthefileis.tgz>!

[Ergot]

If you have an Nvidia graphics card. Games are amazingly fun on Linux. There are serveral great native Linux games. I like Linux because it's a lot more stable than Windows, when one thing crashes it doesn't cause the whole system to blow up. And yes, the many WMs available sure make it nice visual or nice on your resources. The part I like the best is that Azureus runs without killing the rest of my internet (and sometimes the rest of the people on my network). The command prompt for Linux is great you can get a lot more done on it than you can using pure command line on Windows.  Other than the ATi drivers to improve proformance, my computer didn't need any other drivers to run.  Actually, I think many good distros have a "current" or "testing" version where they update it as much as Linus or any other software developer does. Wine is extremely easy to install on Slackware and many other distros because they have a number of packages, and if not, your distro might have a package or package manager that would. Other than packages, compiling it shouldn't be more than ./configure, make, make install.  I mean, I think I got Wine to run on my shitty RH9 with my limit knowledge of Linux (pre-iago).  It takes a bit to get adjusted if you've been using Windows, but eventually when you're familiar and comforatable, it will be just as easy to use.

[Sidoh]

Linux is amazing.  I have to honestly say Windows pisses me off now.  I used to be like you and I'll say I can still see where you're coming from, but Linux is still so much better than Windows.  I've especially realized that after installing it on my server.

Yes, I still use Windows on my box, but I'm hoping to change that soon.  There are some things I'm so accustomed to on Windows, I've been resistant to change them.

[Ergot]

Linux is amazing.  I have to honestly say Windows pisses me off now.  I used to be like you and I'll say I can still see where you're coming from, but Linux is still so much better than Windows.  I've especially realized that after installing it on my server.

Yes, I still use Windows on my box, but I'm hoping to change that soon.  There are some things I'm so accustomed to on Windows, I've been resistant to change them.

WoW ;P ?

[Sidoh]

WoW ;P ?

Yes, partly that, but it's the fact that I'm very, very comfortable with the Windows desktop environment.  I don't really know how to map network drives on Linux, for example.  I'm sure that's very easy and straightforward to do, but there are lots of little things like that which compel me to keep using this piece of shit Windows XP OS.

I'm switching to Slackware soon, don't worry.

[mynameistmp]

This is a pretty good question. I'll tell you why I prefer Linux over Windows.

First off, I am a computer hobbyist. I do not work in any field related to computers/computing/compsec, etc. I enjoy learning about how computers work. That is the only reason I do anything on here, for enjoyment. Mainly my interests revolve around various programming languages and learning how the x86 architecture works on a lower level. So, my number 1 reason that I fell in love with Linux is because I found it gave me way more access to information and a more open opportunity to learn. Windows never even came close to Linux in this respect at all, imo. Nothing could satisfy my geeky curiousity more than a documented open source OS and the things it entails... open source kernel, open source implementation of the TCP/IP stack, open source implementation of a score of filesystems, etc, etc ,etc.

Second, I found Linux had better support for budding developers. The system provided a healthily developed set of compilers/linkers/libraries and a variety of text editors, IDAs, debuggers, etc. Windows didn't even have a compiler. And I had to pay for the flagship compiler (VC++) apparrently. As far as a debugger went, I was on my own there as well. Quite the contrast there.  On another note, I found that bash was a much more helpful platform for my programming adventures than the Windows shell. If you don't see how, try commands like grep, head, interpreters like awk, perl, and tools like od, ctags, time, etc. People have told me tools like this exist for Windows, and the Windows shell can do all the same things, which may be true, but I don't know how you'd begin to learn Windows shell. Is there something similar to man for Windows ? I'm not sure about today, but there wasn't when I used it. If you google "Windows shell", the first thing to come up is an exploit for it.

Third, I hate to sound cliche, but it is free. I didn't mind putting up with all of the cracks, cd key generators, nag screens, trial versions, etc when I ran Windows. But in the years I've been running Linux, I've never encountered ONE of these instances. The only instance I can even think of pertaining to these on Linux was winex asking for a registration before downloading. I don't miss it at all. I don't know what all you Windows guys do everytime a new release comes out. Shell out a couple hundred bucks ? I guess most of you download it, or burn it or something. Although, I don't see how so many people can claim to be adament supporters of a software foundation they perpetually commit federal crimes against.

Anyhow, those are the 3 main reasons. I could rant endlessly about the fine points.

Also, I should note that the last time I had a Windows system was probably 3 years ago, and I was using Win2k. I've noticed Windows opening up more to developers lately, so some of my information may be outdated.

[Blaze]

What's hard about it? Is it something that we can't help you solve? I'm nearly on the computer 24/7, so I could help.

Lies!  Every time I ask for help you go 'stfu blaze, you suck - go die, plzkthx.'

[Ergot]

Very good points tmp. I feel much more in control one Linux. Probably because of all the tools and less restrictions. And the great added bonus, is that you're never left in the cold. I know that Microsoft has pretty much dropped support for Windows 9x. Developers for games/software/hardware have ditched it as well, and the only way to install them is to upgrade to a newer version which costs an arm and a leg. However, on Linux, even if your distribution is discontinued, you can still upgrade the kernel and all software by yourself.

[deadly7]

Very good points tmp. I feel much more in control one Linux. Probably because of all the tools and less restrictions. And the great added bonus, is that you're never left in the cold. I know that Microsoft has pretty much dropped support for Windows 9x. Developers for games/software/hardware have ditched it as well, and the only way to install them is to upgrade to a newer version which costs an arm and a leg. However, on Linux, even if your distribution is discontinued, you can still upgrade the kernel and all software by yourself.

That's one of the reasons I still use Linux daily, it's more flexible in that only one person can fuck everything up (root), whereas in Windows anybody can fuck it up.  Windows Vista [codenamed Longhorn] is supposed to have "fixed" their account system so it emulates Linux.  We'll see how that turns out.

[Newby]

I guess most of you download it, or burn it or something. Although, I don't see how so many people can claim to be adament supporters of a software foundation they perpetually commit federal crimes against.

You make an amazing point.

[iago]

Everybody already answered this very well, I don't have a whole lot to add.  But one thing stuck out to me:

Basically, if you want to do ANYTHING with it, you have to know BASH back and forward.  That takes lots of time and lots of reading of man pages.

False. 

I don't know BASH "back and forward".  I'd argue that I barely know it at all, in fact.  I can do a FOR loop and a WHILE loop, and that's about it.  I can do an IF, normally with a reference.  But all you really need to know is a FOR loop, and you can already do a lot of useful things.

If you intend to become more of a Linux power-user, I recommend finding the book Beginning Linux Programming by Stone.  It gives you a quick overview over the main points, like Bash, Make, IPC (Inter-Process Communication), I/O, POSIX, TCL, GTK+, and many other things.  Tmp recommended it to me, and I'm very happy he did, it was one of my better investments. 

If you want to understand more about the culture of Linux, and the fundamental ideas behind open-source and Linux design decisions, find yourself The Art of UNIX Programming.  It's free online, but I prefer buying books.  It gives the history, philosophy, and reasonings for Linux, and is based on the 12 or so central figures in Linux history, including Kernigham, Ritchie, Torvalds, and many others.  If you want to know WHY to use Linux for programming, rather than HOW to, this is a great book. 

I know that you're an avid reader, and if you're serious about Linux, I strongly recommend you pick up those two books.  They were totally worth it.

Also, install the game Pingus.  It's elite.

[Sidoh]

I guess most of you download it, or burn it or something. Although, I don't see how so many people can claim to be adament supporters of a software foundation they perpetually commit federal crimes against.

So very true...

[mynameistmp]

If you intend to become more of a Linux power-user, I recommend finding the book Beginning Linux Programming by Stone.  It gives you a quick overview over the main points, like Bash, Make, IPC (Inter-Process Communication), I/O, POSIX, TCL, GTK+, and many other things.  Tmp recommended it to me, and I'm very happy he did, it was one of my better investments. 

If you want to understand more about the culture of Linux, and the fundamental ideas behind open-source and Linux design decisions, find yourself The Art of UNIX Programming.

Refer to post:
http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,3013.msg30292.html#msg30292
;P

[iago]

If you intend to become more of a Linux power-user, I recommend finding the book Beginning Linux Programming by Stone.  It gives you a quick overview over the main points, like Bash, Make, IPC (Inter-Process Communication), I/O, POSIX, TCL, GTK+, and many other things.  Tmp recommended it to me, and I'm very happy he did, it was one of my better investments. 

If you want to understand more about the culture of Linux, and the fundamental ideas behind open-source and Linux design decisions, find yourself The Art of UNIX Programming.

Refer to post:
http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,3013.msg30292.html#msg30292
;P

Haha, well, there's nothing wrong with recommending them multiple times, since they ARE the best books ever for Linux

[deadly7]

I guess most of you download it, or burn it or something. Although, I don't see how so many people can claim to be adament supporters of a software foundation they perpetually commit federal crimes against.

I'm not an adament supporter of Microsoft. I use it, and that's about it.

[Krazed]

I like windows, I donno why. I guess after you use something for about 7-8 years, it's as easy as walking.

[Ergot]

I like windows, I donno why. I guess after you use something for about 7-8 years, it's as easy as walking.

Yea, but Linux is like driving. I get things done a lot done, faster.

[Newby]

I like windows, I donno why. I guess after you use something for about 7-8 years, it's as easy as walking.

Yea, but Linux is like driving. I get things done a lot done, faster.

Oh shit, that was good.

[Ergot]

I like windows, I donno why. I guess after you use something for about 7-8 years, it's as easy as walking.

Yea, but Linux is like driving. I get things done a lot done, faster.

Oh shit, that was good.

It extends further because one must first learn how to drive, and after than it just become second nature.

[Sidoh]

It extends further because one must first learn how to drive, and after than it just become second nature.

The same applies to walking, though.

[Ergot]

It extends further because one must first learn how to drive, and after than it just become second nature.

The same applies to walking, though.

Yea, but you learn to walk first and you're just so use to it already that you think driving isn't important.

[Sidoh]

Yea, but you learn to walk first and you're just so use to it already that you think driving isn't important.

Haha, I'm being picky.  This is a good comparison, but there are too many ways to poke fun at it.

[iago]

It takes awhile to learn to walk, but eventually, you learn that walking isn't the end.  Of course, there are plenty of people to drive you around before you learn to drive yourself (visiting websites, anyone?).

When you first start driving, it's hard.  You constantly need help, and you have to ask people how to do everything, from gear-shifting to signalling.  Of course, while walking, you pick up on certain things like street signs and traffic lights, so that when you're driving you DO see familiar things, they're just more meaningful now. 

Once you learn how to drive well, you realize that it is SO much better than walking!  Even though it's more difficult at first, and even frustrating, it is so much more useful!

[Sidoh]

It takes awhile to learn to walk, but eventually, you learn that walking isn't the end.  Of course, there are plenty of people to drive you around before you learn to drive yourself (visiting websites, anyone?).

When you first start driving, it's hard.  You constantly need help, and you have to ask people how to do everything, from gear-shifting to signalling.  Of course, while walking, you pick up on certain things like street signs and traffic lights, so that when you're driving you DO see familiar things, they're just more meaningful now. 

Once you learn how to drive well, you realize that it is SO much better than walking!  Even though it's more difficult at first, and even frustrating, it is so much more useful!

But dangerous!  Car accidents!

Haha, just kidding.  Like I said, I'm being picky!

This is a good comparison, I must say.

[iago]

But dangerous!  Car accidents!

Yes, that's true, it's much easier to injure yourself while driving.  Of course, it's even easier to injure somebody who's walking when you're driving.

Also, you can only walk for a couple hours a day, then it just becomes slow and difficult until you rest (restart?). 

[Sidoh]

Also, you can only walk for a couple hours a day, then it just becomes slow and difficult until you rest (restart?). 

Holy shit, this is uncanny.

A compilation:  http://www.sidoh.org/~sidoh/linux.html

[Joe]

Sure you can use WINE to play games, but I'm Linux-retarded and I asked someone (I think it was iago Shocked) if it was hard to set up and he said yeah.

I posted a shellscript a few pages back to install cedega from CVS. Feel free to bump it if you feel the need. Cedega > wine for gaming.

[Sidoh]

Sure you can use WINE to play games, but I'm Linux-retarded and I asked someone (I think it was iago Shocked) if it was hard to set up and he said yeah.

I posted a shellscript a few pages back to install cedega from CVS. Feel free to bump it if you feel the need. Cedega > wine for gaming.

Installing is easy.

[Joe]

wget, untar, cd, make, sudo make install

=)

[iago]

That doesn't sound like a CVS install..

[Sidoh]

That doesn't sound like a CVS install..

Was thinking the same thing.

http://www.sidoh.org/~sidoh/linux.html

Help me come up with more, iago!

[iago]

That doesn't sound like a CVS install..

Was thinking the same thing.

Now that I think about it, it's probably how to install the CVS version, not install it from the CVS..
[/quote]

http://www.sidoh.org/~sidoh/linux.html

Help me come up with more, iago!

It doesn't work like that!  It has to be from the heart!

[Newby]

Now that I think about it, it's probably how to install the CVS version, not install it from the CVS..

It is. I used it. =P

[Joe]

It's much easier to injure yourself while driving. It's even easier to injure someone who's walking when you're driving.
(iago)

LOL.

[Ergot]

It's much easier to injure yourself while driving. It's even easier to injure someone who's walking when you're driving.
(iago)

LOL.

* Ergot now knows why iago call one of his computer "tank."

[Blaze]

@Sidoh:  Almost any idiot can walk.

[Ergot]

Walking is outrageously slow and you are exposed to the elements while walking. Many luxery items are missing when you don't drive, like the dashboard items.

[Sidoh]

@Sidoh:  Almost any idiot can walk.

It still takes you a large fraction of a year (on average) to learn how to walk.

[Blaze]

@Sidoh:  Almost any idiot can walk.

It still takes you a large fraction of a year (on average) to learn how to walk.

and still people struggle with windows aswell.

[Ergot]

For Sidoh: Drivers usually pick up pedestrians and try to get them to see how great driving is.

[Sidoh]

For Sidoh: Drivers usually pick up pedestrians and try to get them to see how great driving is.

And give them "CANDY!"

( I put that in quotes because I'm implying that they assrape the pedestrians, of course ).

Good one, though.  I'm going to modify it a little bit:

Drivers sometimes pick up hitchhikers because they can't imagine how much walking that far must suck.

[Sidoh]

You can modify a car a hell of a lot easier than you can your legs! You could get prosthetic legs, but that would take a very experienced surgeon; your new legs would probably suck more than your old ones anyway.

[iago]

@Sidoh:  Almost any idiot can walk.

It still takes you a large fraction of a year (on average) to learn how to walk.

To modify it a bit, "Any idiot can walk"

[Sidoh]

To modify it a bit, "Any idiot can walk"

You can modify a car a hell of a lot easier than you can your legs! You could get prosthetic legs, but that would take a very experienced surgeon; your new legs would probably suck more than your old ones anyway.
(Sidoh/Ergot)

It's easier to get hit in the face by a bug when you don't have a windshield.
(Sidoh)

It's easier to fix a problematic car than it is to mend faulty legs.
(Ergot)

Any idiot can walk.
(Blaze)

Who the FUCK walks when they can DRIVE!?
(Warrior)