Microsoft Executive Talks With BetaNews

[deadly7]

http://www.betanews.com/article/Interview_Microsoft_Exec_Talks_IE7_RSS/1140227203

[iago]

I don't meant to start an argument, but this has to be pointed out:

[....] Microsoft will bring RSS to the mainstream [....]

Haha!   

[deadly7]

Hahaha. Yeah, I noticed that.  I chuckled.  It's a pretty funny article in a sense.

[Warrior]

Well yes, most people use IE. IE7 will implement RSS, thus RSS will be mainstream.

[iago]

Well yes, most people use IE. IE7 will implement RSS, thus RSS will be mainstream.

RSS is already used by just about every site that it applies to (ie, news).  Tons of people already use it.  I'd call that pretty mainstream.

[Warrior]

It can be mainstream to firefox users or to any browser which supports RSS, remember most of the internet uses IE. IE dominates the market, thus it represents the majority of users. Now windows implementing it in to IE7 (Which works wonderfully btw) will make it mainstream obviously since the majority of users have IE.

I hate to break it to you but there arn't a lot of people who don't use IE as opposed to those who do. Any browser bundled with windows is going to immediately go right to the top in useage thus anything implemented in that browser immediately goes mainstream.

[Sidoh]

It can be mainstream to firefox users or to any browser which supports RSS, remember most of the internet uses IE. IE dominates the market, thus it represents the majority of users. Now windows implementing it in to IE7 (Which works wonderfully btw) will make it mainstream obviously since the majority of users have IE.

I hate to break it to you but there arn't a lot of people who don't use IE as opposed to those who do. Any browser bundled with windows is going to immediately go right to the top in useage thus anything implemented in that browser immediately goes mainstream.

"... bring RSS to the mainstream ..." is synonymous to "... bring RSS to the public ...".

By your logic represented here, aren't you contradicting yourself?  You said Vista was publicly available.

[Warrior]

It is, so is IE7.

Mainstream
Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought. It is a term most often applied in the arts (i.e., music, literature, and performance). This includes: * something that is not out of the ordinary or unusual;* something that is familiar to the masses;* something that belongs to an identifiable genre, such as detective fiction, horror, fantasy, or science fiction.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream

Don't get how that means "Public". Mainstream is the majority of the public. The majority of the public use IE.

[Sidoh]

It is, so is IE7.

Mainstream
Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought. It is a term most often applied in the arts (i.e., music, literature, and performance). This includes: * something that is not out of the ordinary or unusual;* something that is familiar to the masses;* something that belongs to an identifiable genre, such as detective fiction, horror, fantasy, or science fiction.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream

Don't get how that means "Public". Mainstream is the majority of the public. The majority of the public use IE.

And the "public" is the majority of the people, discluding those that have special access or privileges to a related pool of information, data or objects.  For instance, in political terms, the "public" are those who aren't associated with the government.  In scientific terms, the "public" are those who aren't involved in the researcher's line of work.

[Warrior]

This is neither politics nor science so what's your point?
The fact is, IE is the mainstream browser, like it or not. It will remain the mainstream browser as long as windows is alive.
Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

[Hitmen]

This is neither politics nor science so what's your point?
The fact is, IE is the mainstream browser, like it or not. It will remain the mainstream browser as long as windows is alive.
Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

I think everyone pretty much missed what iago was saying. RSS is already mainstream. Microsoft is claiming they will bring RSS into the mainstream. Something that is mainstream already cannot be "brought into the mainstream".

[Warrior]

Mainstream among websites? Yes. Among users? No.
That is what Windows is talking about and that is what they will do.

[Chavo]

No offense guys, but you choose some really trivial things to argue about sometimes....

* unTactical ducks

[Warrior]

* Warrior[x86] throws something @ unTactical after seeing him duck.

BOOM HEADSHOT.

[Sidoh]

This is neither politics nor science so what's your point?
The fact is, IE is the mainstream browser, like it or not. It will remain the mainstream browser as long as windows is alive.
Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

Is it that hard to understand I'm implying that "the public" is a completely relative term?

If Microsoft is implying that they're bringing RSS to the mainstream browser, they're absolutely correct.  However, if they're refering to a group of people by mainstream, they're wrong.  RSS has already been brought to the mainstream.  Some just refuse to accept it.

[Newby]

I love how Warrior will totally twist and argue points in favor of Microsoft, but Microsoft doesn't give half a flying fuck about him or any other hobbyists for that matter...

You have to love companies that don't give a shit about the people who develop third party free applications for their OS.

[Warrior]

This is neither politics nor science so what's your point?
The fact is, IE is the mainstream browser, like it or not. It will remain the mainstream browser as long as windows is alive.
Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

Is it that hard to understand I'm implying that "the public" is a completely relative term?

If Microsoft is implying that they're bringing RSS to the mainstream browser, they're absolutely correct.  However, if they're refering to a group of people by mainstream, they're wrong.  RSS has already been brought to the mainstream.  Some just refuse to accept it.

Ok if you want to twist and misintepret their words fine, it's pretty obvious what they're saying. It can be relative if it wants but if it doesn't apply to the context in which they use the word then there is no point in even bringing it up.

Thing is newby, doing the switch from hobbyist to professional is a few years away. Why should they care about people who make them no money and further their company? That's right they shouldn't. I'm a Windows user and that is what gears me to defend microsoft. Now, how am I twisting points in favor of Microsoft or is that another thing you randomly through in there?

[Newby]

Thing is newby, doing the switch from hobbyist to professional is a few years away. Why should they care about people who make them no money and further their company? That's right they shouldn't. I'm a Windows user and that is what gears me to defend microsoft. Now, how am I twisting points in favor of Microsoft or is that another thing you randomly through in there?

You're still a hobbyist and someone Microsoft doesn't want to deal with until then.

Why should they care about people who may write programs that KEEP people on Windows and stops them from switching to Linux/Mac/BSD because Linux/Mac/BSD came with a program they wanted? If anything, I'd rather have them write programs and promote the OS.

You're twisting points in favor of M$ because so far, you seem to avoid the main post in anyone's argument, pick a bit of it out, and attack that. This is from what I've generally read on here and sb.net, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees your posts this way.

Take a look at this post. They said they're "bringing mainstream to the public"

RSS has been mainstream to the public. I know I've been using an RSS feed for slashdot and other news sites for a while now.

I fail to see where M$ is going to bring mainstream to the public, again. Unless they worded that incorrectly. If so, please state the proper wording, and don't use the viewpoint of an M$ employee. Please use the viewpoint of the internet as it is. I believe, the proper wording will be "Bringing RSS into mainstream browser" as they've finally incorporated it into Internet Explorer!

Oh, wait, that IS what they mean by "bringing mainstream to the public"... they just want it to seem so much more dramatic than that.

They're taking their new accomplishments and flourishing them as if they're something new! Security != new in the OS world. RSS != new in the mainstream internet usage. M$ = not innovative.

[Sidoh]

Ok if you want to twist and misintepret their words fine, it's pretty obvious what they're saying. It can be relative if it wants but if it doesn't apply to the context in which they use the word then there is no point in even bringing it up.

Everything is relative.  Everything should be considered relative.  They shouldn't assume people are going to understand that it's only "mainstream" because most people use IE.  If they want to make it easy to misinterpret their words, they shouldn't expect people to feel bad when they do.

[Warrior]

It's understandable if they don't want to deal with me anymore than I'd like to deal with them now. Only time we'll be "dealing with eachother" is when I work for them. Until then I doubt they even know I exist. By the way, when you develop for Windows you are considered by them a "Developer" but since I don't develop for Windows I won't call myself that either in their eyes.

If they want to promote the OS, fine then they are considered Developers in the eyes of MS. If they want to use Windows and develop on a more general scope or for other OSes, they are considered hobbyists.

I don't see how I have avoided any argument here, sure when I have 2-3 people responding at the same time then I may miss a few which I've noticed and by then it was far too old to even be worth it. On SB.net I've responded to all of your replies and generally they are more uninformed and filled with random blah than anything posted here so until you can hold your own don't talk like a big shit here.

On the other hand, let's deal with the actual topic at hand..or are you doing the same thing you just finished scolding me for doing? Eh? Cmon.

They are bringing RSS to the mainstream public, the mainstream public is the majority of the public which is again IE users. Do you still not get it? Talk about word twisting.

[Warrior]

Ok if you want to twist and misintepret their words fine, it's pretty obvious what they're saying. It can be relative if it wants but if it doesn't apply to the context in which they use the word then there is no point in even bringing it up.

Everything is relative.  Everything should be considered relative.  They shouldn't assume people are going to understand that it's only "mainstream" because most people use IE.  If they want to make it easy to misinterpret their words, they shouldn't expect people to feel bad when they do.

Then I'll just conclude all of your arguments have degenerated to twisting around words when it's easy to tell what they mean. If you want to do that it's fine by me, just know at the end of the day that's all you're doing. Whatever makes you guys feel better.

[Sidoh]

Then I'll just conclude all of your arguments have degenerated to twisting around words when it's easy to tell what they mean. If you want to do that it's fine by me, just know at the end of the day that's all you're doing. Whatever makes you guys feel better.

It would be much more valid to say I'm not twisting words to the colloquial way they are using them.

[iago]

Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

No.

Let's take a counter-example.  Let's say that Microsoft adds the ability to write Word documents to Internet Explorer.  Does writing Word documents then become mainstream?  No.  Therefore, your premise is flawed and the rest of your arguments are irrelevant. 

As Hitmen said, if something is already mainstream, it cannot become mainstream.  Warrior, you're arguing the completely wrong argument.  You shouldn't be arguing that "Microsoft is so awesome", as you seem to do in every thread.  You should be arguing that RSS wasn't ever mainstream.  Any other argument is completely vaccuous. 

[Newby]

They are bringing RSS to the mainstream public, the mainstream public is the majority of the public which is again IE users. Do you still not get it? Talk about word twisting.

RSS has been mainstream. I can use it on CNN. I can use it on bbc. I can use it on slashdot. I can use it on many many webpages.

I don't know how much more you can make RSS mainstream, besides implementing it in your browser, which would just further its mainstream usage.

[Warrior]

They are bringing RSS to the mainstream public, the mainstream public is the majority of the public which is again IE users. Do you still not get it? Talk about word twisting.

RSS has been mainstream. I can use it on CNN. I can use it on bbc. I can use it on slashdot. I can use it on many many webpages.

I don't know how much more you can make RSS mainstream, besides implementing it in your browser, which would just further its mainstream usage.

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

[Newby]

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

Please see iago's argument on adding the ability to write Word documents inside of Internet Explorer.

That's the dumbest argument I've EVER heard.

Yes, it's very hard to understand. I don't see how something that is mainstream already can re-become mainstream because a company added it to their web browser.

[Warrior]

Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

No.

Let's take a counter-example.  Let's say that Microsoft adds the ability to write Word documents to Internet Explorer.  Does writing Word documents then become mainstream?  No.  Therefore, your premise is flawed and the rest of your arguments are irrelevant. 

No, Word has already been used by the majority for a while..what are you getting at?

As Hitmen said, if something is already mainstream, it cannot become mainstream.  Warrior, you're arguing the completely wrong argument.  You shouldn't be arguing that "Microsoft is so awesome", as you seem to do in every thread.  You should be arguing that RSS wasn't ever mainstream.  Any other argument is completely vaccuous. 

Thing is, RSS isn't mainstream. I said until Microsoft implements it on IE, it won't ever become mainstream..I'd think you would atleast be able to grab that. Cmon, it isn't hard people.

[Warrior]

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

Please see iago's argument on adding the ability to write Word documents inside of Internet Explorer.

That's the dumbest argument I've EVER heard.

Responded.

Are you seriously that stupid? Which browser dominates the market? IE. Which browser gets more users? IE.
Firefox despite what you may wish or whatever doesn't get as much users as IE. So they can use RSS sure, but it's still a low number compared to IE. When IE implements it then it will become mainstream because the majority will be using it.
I will make a pie chart next time you respond with something this stupid.

[Newby]

I said until Microsoft implements it on IE, it won't ever become mainstream..I'd think you would atleast be able to grab that. Cmon, it isn't hard people.

Get off your high horse of "M$ is teh mainstream pusher!" and realize that RSS has been mainstream for a while. (I don't feel like adding more links. Just google search "RSS is mainstream" for me please.)

You have to realize the number of users using it does not define whether or not it is mainstream. Plenty of clients have utilized RSS. Hell, even eggdrops on IRC utilize RSS...

[Sidoh]

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

Maybe you don't understand what RSS is?  A browser isn't the only intended user end application of RSS.  Several websites and applications already make use of RSS.

[Warrior]

Then I'll just conclude all of your arguments have degenerated to twisting around words when it's easy to tell what they mean. If you want to do that it's fine by me, just know at the end of the day that's all you're doing. Whatever makes you guys feel better.

It would be much more valid to say I'm not twisting words to the colloquial way they are using them.

Hey, again you're blaming them for you misinterpreting. Seems pretty ironic when I blamed you for me misinterpreting you said it was my fault and that I should have known..stop twisting things to fit your arguments.

[Warrior]

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

Maybe you don't understand what RSS is?  A browser isn't the only intended user end application of RSS.  Several websites and applications already make use of RSS.

I know what RSS is, even withought IE and withought browsers. The usage is still minimal compared to the monumental growth when IE7 is released officially. Until that growth is achieved withought IE7, Microsoft is right in saying they are moving it to mainstream.

[Newby]

Warrior:

In mid 2000, use of RSS spread to many of the major news organizations, including Reuters, CNN, and the BBC. These providers allow other websites to incorporate their "syndicated" headline or headline-and-short-summary feeds under various usage agreements. RSS is now used for many purposes, including marketing, bug-reports, or any other activity involving periodic updates or publications.

Explain how it didn't go mainstream at that point.

No, M$ is not right in saying they are making it go mainstream because one client is going to use it.

I somehow doubt that usage of RSS feeds will go up at that point, seeing as how they haven't needed the feature or had it up until this point, and may see it as a useless feature.

[Warrior]

I said until Microsoft implements it on IE, it won't ever become mainstream..I'd think you would atleast be able to grab that. Cmon, it isn't hard people.

Get off your high horse of "M$ is teh mainstream pusher!" and realize that RSS has been mainstream for a while. (I don't feel like adding more links. Just google search "RSS is mainstream" for me please.)

I attacked that in Sidoh's claim. I also believe I've posted the definition to mainstream again if you still don't understand.

You have to realize the number of users using it does not define whether or not it is mainstream. Plenty of clients have utilized RSS. Hell, even eggdrops on IRC utilize RSS...

Perhaps you want to look at my posted definition of mainstreaming as well?

[Sidoh]

Hey, again you're blaming them for you misinterpreting. Seems pretty ironic when I blamed you for me misinterpreting you said it was my fault and that I should have known..stop twisting things to fit your arguments.

No, I'm blaming them for implying things with words that don't mean what they're intending them to.

I knew you'd bring that up.  The difference is, I assume you're intelligent.  Microsoft can't assume that most of their users are that intelligent.  The average person on planet Earth is stupid or uneducated.

I'm not twisting things to fit my arguments.  I've consistently argued that words should be used to fit their formal definition.  If everyone used words in a colloquial fashion, conversation would be a very difficult task.

I know what RSS is, even withought IE and withought browsers. The usage is still minimal compared to the monumental growth when IE7 is released officially. Until that growth is achieved withought IE7, Microsoft is right in saying they are moving it to mainstream.

Then you're obviously unaware of the already huge use, application and potential (discluding any of Microsoft's products) for any sort of syndication, RSS included.  RSS largely used outside of browsers.  In fact, even after it's put into IE7, I highly doubt that browsers of any creator are going to be the main consumer of RSS.

[Warrior]

Warrior:

In mid 2000, use of RSS spread to many of the major news organizations, including Reuters, CNN, and the BBC. These providers allow other websites to incorporate their "syndicated" headline or headline-and-short-summary feeds under various usage agreements. RSS is now used for many purposes, including marketing, bug-reports, or any other activity involving periodic updates or publications.

Explain how it didn't go mainstream at that point.

Because it didn't have the huge amount of user base it will have after IE7 is done with it.

No, M$ is not right in saying they are making it go mainstream because one client is going to use it.

I somehow doubt that usage of RSS feeds will go up at that point, seeing as how they haven't needed the feature or had it up until this point, and may see it as a useless feature.

People are going to use IE7 and people are going to use RSS. RSS usage goes up, it moves into mainstream because the majority of users in the world will either know about it or use it. Again I'm explaining this for what, the 5th time?

[Newby]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream

Definition:

Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought of the majority. It is a term most often applied in the arts (i.e., music, literature, and performance). This includes:

    * something that is ordinary or usual;
    * something that is familiar to the masses;
    * something that is available to the general public.

RSS feeds have been available to the general public for quite some time now. IE7 is just one of the hundreds of clients that have utilized RSS for what, five years now? That would make RSS mainstream. How can you push something into the mainstream after it's already been there?

[Warrior]

Hey, again you're blaming them for you misinterpreting. Seems pretty ironic when I blamed you for me misinterpreting you said it was my fault and that I should have known..stop twisting things to fit your arguments.

No, I'm blaming them for implying things with words that don't mean what they're intending them to.

I knew you'd bring that up.  The difference is, I assume you're intelligent.  Microsoft can't assume that most of their users are that intelligent.  The average person on planet Earth is stupid or uneducated.

So did you just insult your intelligence? The majority of people reading your post before could have ranged from anyone. So that doesn't make much sense.

I'm not twisting things to fit my arguments.  I've consistently argued that words should be used to fit their formal definition.  If everyone used words in a colloquial fashion, conversation would be a very difficult task.

Of course you just proved that you did, besides the fact you giving whatever explination you still did it.

I know what RSS is, even withought IE and withought browsers. The usage is still minimal compared to the monumental growth when IE7 is released officially. Until that growth is achieved withought IE7, Microsoft is right in saying they are moving it to mainstream.

Then you're obviously unaware of the already huge use, application and potential (discluding any of Microsoft's products) for any sort of syndication, RSS included.  RSS largely used outside of browsers.  In fact, even after it's put into IE7, I highly doubt that browsers of any creator are going to be the main consumer of RSS.

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

[Warrior]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream

Definition:

Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought of the majority. It is a term most often applied in the arts (i.e., music, literature, and performance). This includes:

    * something that is ordinary or usual;
    * something that is familiar to the masses;
    * something that is available to the general public.

RSS feeds have been available to the general public for quite some time now. IE7 is just one of the hundreds of clients that have utilized RSS for what, five years now? That would make RSS mainstream. How can you push something into the mainstream after it's already been there?

Again, for what I'll assume to be the 6th time: It will not be mainstream until the majority of users  are using RSS. Majority meaning most in the world. We're speaking on a global scale here, Microsoft is speaking on a global scale. They are going to push RSS usage to the max and the users before are going to seem like nothing. Same challenge to you I gave to Sidoh. Find me one service which will pull as much RSS users as IE7 will and I'll back down and say IE7 wont bring it into mainstream

[Newby]

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

RSS feeding servers. Oh, damn.

Again, for what I'll assume to be the 6th time: It will not be mainstream until the majority of users  are using RSS. Majority meaning most in the world. We're speaking on a global scale here, Microsoft is speaking on a global scale. They are going to push RSS usage to the max and the users before are going to seem like nothing.

You're a fucking idiot. If more people use it, it will still be as mainstream as it was before.

You missed where I said how is it going to just NOW go mainstream if, by definition, it HAS been available to the general public?

I fail to see how where it's been offered before and utilized by hundreds of clients before meant nothing, it was just underground. Yeah, CNN and such are underground webpages and RSS parsers that used them are too!

If a band is very mainstream and suddenly a new country hears about it, they're still mainstream. They weren't pulled out and pushed back in and they didn't get mainstreamer (if that's a word) because 100K more fans listen to them now.

Oh yeah, you did it again. You avoided my point (I bolded it again this time) and posted what you thought.

[Warrior]

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

RSS feeding servers. Oh, damn.

I've bolded where you fail. Try again.

Again, for what I'll assume to be the 6th time: It will not be mainstream until the majority of users  are using RSS. Majority meaning most in the world. We're speaking on a global scale here, Microsoft is speaking on a global scale. They are going to push RSS usage to the max and the users before are going to seem like nothing.

You're a fucking idiot. If more people use it, it will still be as mainstream as it was before.

You missed where I said how is it going to just NOW go mainstream if, by definition, it HAS been available to the general public?

I fail to see how where it's been offered before and utilized by hundreds of clients before meant nothing, it was just underground. Yeah, CNN and such are underground webpages and RSS parsers that used them are too!

If a band is very mainstream and suddenly a new country hears about it, they're still mainstream. They weren't pulled out and pushed back in and they didn't get mainstreamer (if that's a word) because 100K more fans listen to them now.

No, like I said it is not mainstream until it is used by a majority in the world. Microsoft is claiming they can do that, no one else can say that. They are correct in saying that.

RSS can be popular among CNN or whatever the hell you want but face it, Windows is the majority. You seem to be neglecting to accept that because you're too hardcore Linux. Come back when you face reality.

[Newby]

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

RSS feeding servers. Oh, damn.

I've bolded where you fail. Try again.

RSS feeding servers are what are delivering RSS feeds from very popular mainstream news webpages. It can't get much more mainstream than that. It can have a much higher user base, but it's still mainstream, regardless if it has 100K users or 100M users...

It delivers them to the general public. By definition, it's mainstream.

No, like I said it is not mainstream until it is used by a majority in the world. Microsoft is claiming they can do that, no one else can say that. They are correct in saying that.

RSS can be popular among CNN or whatever the hell you want but face it, Windows is the majority. You seem to be neglecting to accept that because you're too hardcore Linux. Come back when you face reality.

Come back when you finally realize it has been mainstream beacuse it's been available to the general public in a form of a hundred or more different clients for the last five years.

Please define how that doesn't make it mainstream. I don't give a damn about how many users it has. That is a user base, not mainstream or underground. I want to know why the M$ users couldn't utilize those hundred of so clients that utilized RSS feeds.

Nice pick on my Linux usage, by the way.

EDIT -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_news_aggregators

[Sidoh]

So did you just insult your intelligence? The majority of people reading your post before could have ranged from anyone. So that doesn't make much sense.

No, since I understand what they're intending to say.  If every word in that sentence is taken by its formal definition, their claim is completely false, though.  You're insulting your own intelligence by not realizing we're correct, though!

Of course you just proved that you did, besides the fact you giving whatever explination you still did it.

No, I didn't.  Microsoft is twisting words; I'm not.

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

Again, you're obviously aware of how many other applications there are for RSS.  Do you understand how powerful, usefull and important syndication is?  Since RSS is the main protocol used for syndication, it's already used by the mainstream, whether they realize it or not.  Cell Phones use (or can use) RSS.  I'm pretty confident that will already have the upper hand on IE7.  RSS already has huge application.  IE7 implementing it isn't going to have much of an affect on how RSS is used.  Using a hyperbole, it's like Microsoft implementing a field in IE7 that queries a search engine and then claiming they're bringing "search engines to the main stream."

[deadly7]

Google uses RSS for their Personalized Home Pages.  All IE users have access to that RSS.  Thus, RSS is, and has been, mainstream.

[iago]

This argument (like all arguments with Warrior) is pointless and stupid.  Warrior isn't going to have his mind changed by facts or arguments, he's too locked into his single way of thinking.  I move that this and the other thread on General be locked due to being totally pointless. 

[Warrior]

So did you just insult your intelligence? The majority of people reading your post before could have ranged from anyone. So that doesn't make much sense.

No, since I understand what they're intending to say.  If every word in that sentence is taken by its formal definition, their claim is completely false, though.  You're insulting your own intelligence by not realizing we're correct, though!

You can understand it if you want, how you use it in an argument is different. You obviously understood what they said but you tried to argued it using a different standpoint. You are twisting words there.

Of course you just proved that you did, besides the fact you giving whatever explination you still did it.

No, I didn't.  Microsoft is twisting words; I'm not.

Since you responded withought anythng to back you up, I will to:
Yes you did.

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

Again, you're obviously aware of how many other applications there are for RSS.  Do you understand how powerful, usefull and important syndication is?  Since RSS is the main protocol used for syndication, it's already used by the mainstream, whether they realize it or not.  Cell Phones use (or can use) RSS.  I'm pretty confident that will already have the upper hand on IE7.  RSS already has huge application.  IE7 implementing it isn't going to have much of an affect on how RSS is used.  Using a hyperbole, it's like Microsoft implementing a field in IE7 that queries a search engine and then claiming they're bringing "search engines to the main stream."

You seem to again underestimate and even call the insane amount of users MS pulls "a hyperbole", funny how it isn't one at all..unless you've been asleep for 25 years.

[Warrior]

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

RSS feeding servers. Oh, damn.

I've bolded where you fail. Try again.

RSS feeding servers are what are delivering RSS feeds from very popular mainstream news webpages. It can't get much more mainstream than that. It can have a much higher user base, but it's still mainstream, regardless if it has 100K users or 100M users...

It delivers them to the general public. By definition, it's mainstream.

General, meaning majority. How the hell is the majority of the public going to have it if only "100k" use it!?

No, like I said it is not mainstream until it is used by a majority in the world. Microsoft is claiming they can do that, no one else can say that. They are correct in saying that.

RSS can be popular among CNN or whatever the hell you want but face it, Windows is the majority. You seem to be neglecting to accept that because you're too hardcore Linux. Come back when you face reality.

Come back when you finally realize it has been mainstream beacuse it's been available to the general public in a form of a hundred or more different clients for the last five years.

Please define how that doesn't make it mainstream. I don't give a damn about how many users it has. That is a user base, not mainstream or underground. I want to know why the M$ users couldn't utilize those hundred of so clients that utilized RSS feeds.

Read above.

Nice pick on my Linux usage, by the way.

Thanks.

[Warrior]

This argument (like all arguments with Warrior) is pointless and stupid.  Warrior isn't going to have his mind changed by facts or arguments, he's too locked into his single way of thinking.  I move that this and the other thread on General be locked due to being totally pointless. 

You're misunderstanding, I know and understand where you all come from. I merely take on Microsoft's standpoint and argue it. It gets annoying to see you guys taking stupid jabs at MS withought understanding where they are coming from.

[Sidoh]

You can understand it if you want, how you use it in an argument is different. You obviously understood what they said but you tried to argued it using a different standpoint. You are twisting words there.

Correct.  I'm twisting the words Microsoft used into what the formal definition for those words implies.  I'd much rather use words in the way they're supposed to be used; not how some company who's exaggerating the greatness of their product defines them.

That's all this is: an advertizing scheme.  I'm shocked you're incapable of realizing this.

Since you responded withought anythng to back you up, I will to:
Yes you did.

See the retort I added above.

You seem to again underestimate and even call the insane amount of users MS pulls "a hyperbole", funny how it isn't one at all..unless you've been asleep for 25 years.

No, I really don't think I'm underestimating it; especially since I'm considering the insane number of people that use the internet and cell phones.  Perhaps you've heard of those?

It was a hyperbole.  If you don't think so, perhaps you should take some more English classes.

[Warrior]

You can understand it if you want, how you use it in an argument is different. You obviously understood what they said but you tried to argued it using a different standpoint. You are twisting words there.

Correct.  I'm twisting the words Microsoft used into what the formal definition for those words implies.  I'd much rather use words in the way they're supposed to be used; not how some company who's exaggerating the greatness of their product defines them.

That's all this is: an advertizing scheme.  I'm shocked you're incapable of realizing this.

Wait..I thought you said you weren't twisting words? Make up your mind.
To you it may seem as an advertising scheme, they don't care about that.
They target the general users and send a message "Heres a technology you never knew about, it's really good and it will be in IE7 and Vista sidebar, we hope to make it mainstream among windows users", thats how a Windows user would intepret it. They don't care how you interpret it, they'd most likely tell you the same thing.

You seem to again underestimate and even call the insane amount of users MS pulls "a hyperbole", funny how it isn't one at all..unless you've been asleep for 25 years.

No, I really don't think I'm underestimating it; especially since I'm considering the insane number of people that use the internet and cell phones.  Perhaps you've heard of those?

It was a hyperbole.  If you don't think so, perhaps you should take some more English classes.

Of course the insane number of people that use the internet are almost all the same that use Windows. Minus the Linux'ers, Mac'ers, and Unix'ers. (Oh yea and Solaris)

[iago]

This argument (like all arguments with Warrior) is pointless and stupid.  Warrior isn't going to have his mind changed by facts or arguments, he's too locked into his single way of thinking.  I move that this and the other thread on General be locked due to being totally pointless. 

You're misunderstanding, I know and understand where you all come from. I merely take on Microsoft's standpoint and argue it. It gets annoying to see you guys taking stupid jabs at MS withought understanding where they are coming from.

Everyone here fully understands the situation.  You redefine words like "mainstream" and "revolutionary" to have new definitions that fit your facts.  It doesn't work like that. 

[Sidoh]

Wait..I thought you said you weren't twisting words? Make up your mind.
To you it may seem as an advertising scheme, they don't care about that.
They target the general users and send a message "Heres a technology you never knew about, it's really good and it will be in IE7 and Vista sidebar, we hope to make it mainstream among windows users", thats how a Windows user would intepret it. They don't care how you interpret it, they'd most likely tell you the same thing.

I have made up my mind.  You fail to realize that I'm using two different frames of reference.  It doesn't matter if Microsoft cares that I recognize that statement is an advertizing scheme.  The point is that it is a gimic.

As iago mentioned, Microsoft twisted words.  When we scoff at this, you defend them saying that it is valid for them to make these valse claims; it's not valid.  It may be okay for someone defending Microsoft in a formal manner to use words like this in order to convince their audience, but that doesn't mean what they're saying is correct or should be accepted as correct.

Of course the insane number of people that use the internet are almost all the same that use Windows. Minus the Linux'ers, Mac'ers, and Unix'ers. (Oh yea and Solaris)

Even proportionally speaking, it isn't valid to make th claim "Almost everyone who uses the internet is on Windows."

[Blaze]

Half of the users of Windows are complete idiots.  If only the users of windows use IE, and most of them are idiots, and a lot of the smart ones don't use IE, you get a whole bunch of idiots using IE and a few smart ones.  Go up to ANY idiot in your school and ask them what a RSS feed stands for.  Just because it is there, DOESN'T MEAN EVERY SINGLE IE USER WILL USE IT.  Half the users of windows have troubles with typing, for god sakes!

You have too much of a closed mind, Warrior.  No matter what ANYONE says he, you will think you're right.  Nobody cares about this anymore, its just senseless LINUX VS WINDOWS all over again.

[Newby]

General, meaning majority. How the hell is the majority of the public going to have it if only "100k" use it!?

It is available to the general public. The general public isn't able to use it, but guess what? It's available. They could all use it, but they don't!

Whether you like it or not, it's mainstream.

No, like I said it is not mainstream until it is used by a majority in the world. Microsoft is claiming they can do that, no one else can say that. They are correct in saying that.

RSS can be popular among CNN or whatever the hell you want but face it, Windows is the majority. You seem to be neglecting to accept that because you're too hardcore Linux. Come back when you face reality.

Come back when you finally realize it has been mainstream beacuse it's been available to the general public in a form of a hundred or more different clients for the last five years.

Please define how that doesn't make it mainstream. I don't give a damn about how many users it has. That is a user base, not mainstream or underground. I want to know why the M$ users couldn't utilize those hundred of so clients that utilized RSS feeds.

Read above.

Yep. I still win, it has been mainstream and M$ will not revolutionize this in any way shape or form.

Stop warping the definition of "mainstream" and actually read it as it is defined.

[Sidoh]

It is available to the general public. The general public isn't able to use it, but guess what? It's available.

Not only that, it is used by the majority of the public.  The majority of the public may not understand that RSS powers several technologies that they use on a daily basis (intentionally or unintentionally), but they do.  As a prime example, cell phones use RSS.

[iago]

It is available to the general public. The general public isn't able to use it, but guess what? It's available.

Not only that, it is used by the majority of the public.  The majority of the public may not understand that RSS powers several technologies that they use on a daily basis (intentionally or unintentionally), but they do.  As a prime example, cell phones use RSS.

Not to mention all news sites.  From a client perspective, http://news.google.com and http://www.packetstormsecurity.org and http://www.vpnsys.com and tons of other sites all use RSS to propogate the news to the user. 

RSS is already mainstream.  Deal with it. 

[Sidoh]

Not to mention all news sites.  From a client perspective, http://news.google.com and http://www.packetstormsecurity.org and http://www.vpnsys.com and tons of other sites all use RSS to propogate the news to the user. 

RSS is already mainstream.  Deal with it. 

Hehe, yep!

[Newby]

It is available to the general public. The general public isn't able to use it, but guess what? It's available.

Not only that, it is used by the majority of the public.  The majority of the public may not understand that RSS powers several technologies that they use on a daily basis (intentionally or unintentionally), but they do.  As a prime example, cell phones use RSS.

Not to mention all news sites.  From a client perspective, http://news.google.com and http://www.packetstormsecurity.org and http://www.vpnsys.com and tons of other sites all use RSS to propogate the news to the user. 

RSS is already mainstream.  Deal with it. 

Not according to Warrior. It's only mainstream if M$ puts it in IE!

[Sidoh]

Not according to Warrior. It's only mainstream if M$ puts it in IE!

C'mon, personal attacks are useless!

[Newby]

I'm only stating what he stating!

[deadly7]

Not to mention all news sites.  From a client perspective, http://news.google.com and http://www.packetstormsecurity.org and http://www.vpnsys.com and tons of other sites all use RSS to propogate the news to the user. 

RSS is already mainstream.  Deal with it. 

Wtf, I already said that!
http://www.x86labs.org:81/forum/index.php/topic,4932.msg56737.html#msg56737

[Sidoh]

His wording was better than yours.  Plus, he provided better examples.

[Warrior]

This argument (like all arguments with Warrior) is pointless and stupid.  Warrior isn't going to have his mind changed by facts or arguments, he's too locked into his single way of thinking.  I move that this and the other thread on General be locked due to being totally pointless. 

You're misunderstanding, I know and understand where you all come from. I merely take on Microsoft's standpoint and argue it. It gets annoying to see you guys taking stupid jabs at MS withought understanding where they are coming from.

Everyone here fully understands the situation.  You redefine words like "mainstream" and "revolutionary" to have new definitions that fit your facts.  It doesn't work like that. 

Like I've stated, and like you don't seem to understand. MS intends the words to their audience. They could care less what YOU interpret them as, besides the fact that it is an incorrect interpretation.

When someone uses an unkown technology (RSS) then it still is not mainstream, they have no idea what it is so how could they consider it mainstream? Microsoft is saying "Look at this technology, we've implemented it into IE7 and Sidebar and we hope to bring it into Mainstream everyday usage on the Windows OS" however you guys'd rather attack everything they do and call them evil because no other company on the planet would be able to move people like that. They have power, you and whoever you standfor don't and that irritates you. Admit it and get over it.

@Newby: I could for example design a product and place it on my doorstep, it would be availible to the public but the would not use it would that be then mainstream? I think what iago and Sidoh are saying makes more sense than what you're saying. Atleast they have a stronger argument, you just put things out for the sake of saying them and randomly bold things to make it look like what you say even makes sense. Try harder next time.

You seem to have redefined mainstream pretty clearly:
Newby:

It is available to the general public. The general public isn't able to use it, but guess what? It's available. They could all use it, but they don't!

Whether you like it or not, it's mainstream.

That's news to me.

So two security sites and google's "news site" use RSS? That isn't a lot of users. Compare it to IE7's users and it's nothing.
IE7 has users worldwide, insane amounts of users world wide. Sorry but that's not something any company can do today.
Only thing I see even close to competeing is the cellphone argument but not all cellphones in the world even use RSS.

I fully understand where Sidoh and iago are coming from (Don't know about Newby anymore) and it's perfectly fine if you guys think of it as a Gimic, I'm giving you an MS perspective. This forum seems to be a "Search the news really hard then bash windows every opportunity" forum, so would it be alright for me to use it as a forum to bash Linux on even the smallest of things when you can't however bash it's actual OS features? Cmon, you're picking at words on a page rather than attacking OS features like you should be from all the Windows bashing you do.

[Newby]

This argument (like all arguments with Warrior) is pointless and stupid.  Warrior isn't going to have his mind changed by facts or arguments, he's too locked into his single way of thinking.  I move that this and the other thread on General be locked due to being totally pointless. 

You're misunderstanding, I know and understand where you all come from. I merely take on Microsoft's standpoint and argue it. It gets annoying to see you guys taking stupid jabs at MS withought understanding where they are coming from.

Everyone here fully understands the situation.  You redefine words like "mainstream" and "revolutionary" to have new definitions that fit your facts.  It doesn't work like that. 

Like I've stated, and like you don't seem to understand. MS intends the words to their audience. They could care less what YOU interpret them as, besides the fact that it is an incorrect interpretation.

When someone uses an unkown technology (RSS) then it still is not mainstream, they have no idea what it is so how could they consider it mainstream? Microsoft is saying "Look at this technology, we've implemented it into IE7 and Sidebar and we hope to bring it into Mainstream everyday usage on the Windows OS" however you guys'd rather attack everything they do and call them evil because no other company on the planet would be able to move people like that. They have power, you and whoever you standfor don't and that irritates you. Admit it and get over it.

@Newby: I could for example design a product and place it on my doorstep, it would be availible to the public but the would not use it would that be then mainstream? I think what iago and Sidoh are saying makes more sense than what you're saying. Atleast they have a stronger argument, you just put things out for the sake of saying them and randomly bold things to make it look like what you say even makes sense. Try harder next time.

You seem to have redefined mainstream pretty clearly:
Newby:

It is available to the general public. The general public isn't able to use it, but guess what? It's available. They could all use it, but they don't!

Whether you like it or not, it's mainstream.

That's news to me.

So two security sites and google's "news site" use RSS? That isn't a lot of users. Compare it to IE7's users and it's nothing.
IE7 has users worldwide, insane amounts of users world wide. Sorry but that's not something any company can do today.
Only thing I see even close to competeing is the cellphone argument but not all cellphones in the world even use RSS.

I fully understand where Sidoh and iago are coming from (Don't know about Newby anymore) and it's perfectly fine if you guys think of it as a Gimic, I'm giving you an MS perspective. This forum seems to be a "Search the news really hard then bash windows every opportunity" forum, so would it be alright for me to use it as a forum to bash Linux on even the smallest of things when you can't however bash it's actual OS features? Cmon, you're picking at words on a page rather than attacking OS features like you should be from all the Windows bashing you do.

Sigh. I'm done arguing with you. My point has been damn near the same as theirs and apparently I'm not making any sense to you. Hell, they based some of their arguments off of mine or proved some of my arguments further (see here and here) and I make no sense? At least they can figure out what I'm trying to say.

Fuck it. It's like arguing with a brick wall. Look past the end of your nose for once.

[Joe]

[Warrior]

This argument (like all arguments with Warrior) is pointless and stupid.  Warrior isn't going to have his mind changed by facts or arguments, he's too locked into his single way of thinking.  I move that this and the other thread on General be locked due to being totally pointless. 

You're misunderstanding, I know and understand where you all come from. I merely take on Microsoft's standpoint and argue it. It gets annoying to see you guys taking stupid jabs at MS withought understanding where they are coming from.

Everyone here fully understands the situation.  You redefine words like "mainstream" and "revolutionary" to have new definitions that fit your facts.  It doesn't work like that. 

Like I've stated, and like you don't seem to understand. MS intends the words to their audience. They could care less what YOU interpret them as, besides the fact that it is an incorrect interpretation.

When someone uses an unkown technology (RSS) then it still is not mainstream, they have no idea what it is so how could they consider it mainstream? Microsoft is saying "Look at this technology, we've implemented it into IE7 and Sidebar and we hope to bring it into Mainstream everyday usage on the Windows OS" however you guys'd rather attack everything they do and call them evil because no other company on the planet would be able to move people like that. They have power, you and whoever you standfor don't and that irritates you. Admit it and get over it.

@Newby: I could for example design a product and place it on my doorstep, it would be availible to the public but the would not use it would that be then mainstream? I think what iago and Sidoh are saying makes more sense than what you're saying. Atleast they have a stronger argument, you just put things out for the sake of saying them and randomly bold things to make it look like what you say even makes sense. Try harder next time.

You seem to have redefined mainstream pretty clearly:
Newby:

It is available to the general public. The general public isn't able to use it, but guess what? It's available. They could all use it, but they don't!

Whether you like it or not, it's mainstream.

That's news to me.

So two security sites and google's "news site" use RSS? That isn't a lot of users. Compare it to IE7's users and it's nothing.
IE7 has users worldwide, insane amounts of users world wide. Sorry but that's not something any company can do today.
Only thing I see even close to competeing is the cellphone argument but not all cellphones in the world even use RSS.

I fully understand where Sidoh and iago are coming from (Don't know about Newby anymore) and it's perfectly fine if you guys think of it as a Gimic, I'm giving you an MS perspective. This forum seems to be a "Search the news really hard then bash windows every opportunity" forum, so would it be alright for me to use it as a forum to bash Linux on even the smallest of things when you can't however bash it's actual OS features? Cmon, you're picking at words on a page rather than attacking OS features like you should be from all the Windows bashing you do.

Sigh. I'm done arguing with you. My point has been damn near the same as theirs and apparently I'm not making any sense to you. Hell, they based some of their arguments off of mine or proved some of my arguments further (see here and here) and I make no sense? At least they can figure out what I'm trying to say.

Fuck it. It's like arguing with a brick wall. Look past the end of your nose for once.

Hey, don't blame me you got it wrong.
Cmon newby..atleast try some willya

[Newby]

Hey, don't blame me you got it wrong.
Cmon newby..atleast try some willya

No. Fuck you. You got it wrong.

Topic locked. I can't stand the fact that retards don't understand me.

[iago]

Sorry for posting to a locked topic, but I spent a lot of time typing this (and btw, to really lock it you should move it to a forum that everybody doesn't moderate):

So two security sites and google's "news site" use RSS? That isn't a lot of users. Compare it to IE7's users and it's nothing.

Ugh, I picked one site from three different categories just for variety. 

I guess I can list some sites:
- x86labs
- vpnsys
- Google news
- packetstormsecurity.org
- cnn.com
- Slashdot (which is pretty damn mainstream alone)
- Freshmeat.net
- Securityfocus.com
- reuters.com
- cbc.ca
- yahoo.com
- theregister.org
- espn.com
- Surgical Diversions 
- wired News Technology
- salon.com Salon makes you think
- ABCNEWS: Nightline
- moore's Lore
- moreover - Tampa-St Petersburg news
- Oligopoly Watch The latest maneuvers of the new oligopolies
- Digital Identity World
- CM Pros Press Releases Blog
- SAP Developer Network SAP Weblogs SAP Developer's Network Weblogs 1 White-on-Orange XML icon.
- SixXS Forum: General
- Talis Keystone
- w4feed:IT Support
- Microsoft Team RSS Blog
- Rick LaPlante's WebLog
- ResourceShelf Resources and News
- Musings from Gudge Martin
- Moreover - Environment news
- LawMarketing Blog
- RasterWeb! Various commentary on whatever
- mobilis mobile Companion Blog
- ZOpen-X: Web Dev and OS X
- Zope.org Product Updates
- Zope.org 2
- Zoo Talk
- Tao of the Machine
- zem cryptography, censorship, copyright, thoughtcrime
- Jeffrey Zeldman Presents: The Daily Report
- Netizen News Daily
- 133ï¾\u0178 E, 34ï¾\u0178 N
- Zapato Productions
- Buddha John Two Fish
- z9m9z.com The Z9M9Z
- About CareerPlanning: Most Popular Articles
- About Web Search
- About Web Design/HTML
- U.S. Politics: Current Events
- About Urban Legends and Folklore Urban Legends and Folklore 1 White-on-Orange XML icon.
- About Travel with Kids
- About Thyroid Disease
- About Teen Fashion
- About Stress Management
- About Space/Astronomy
- About Shakespeare
- About Scrapbooking
- About Sci-Fi / Fantasy
- About Small Business Information
- About Small Business: Canada
- About Psychology
- About Physics
- About Pediatrics
- About Focus on PC Support
- About Parenting of Adolescents
- About Paranormal Phenomena
- About Panic/Anxiety Disorders
- About Palmtops/PDAs
- About Internet/Network Security
- About Mental Health Resources
- About Mens Fashion
- About Management
- About Low Fat Cooking
- Christianity
- About Elementary Educators
- About Judaism
- Focus on JavaScript Focus
- About Inventors
- About Interior Decorating
- About Human Resources
- About Graphics Software
- About Genealogy
- About Frugal Living
- About French Cuisine
- About Freebies
- About Freshwater Fishing
- About Family Internet
- About Entrepreneurs
- Economics
- About Death and Dying
- About Desktop Publishing
- About Depression
- About Composites/Plastics
- Christianity
- About Christianity
- Chess Chess
- About Canada
- About Busy Cooks
- About Birding/Wild Birds
- About Bipolar
- About Bicycling
- About Baseball
- About Arts/Crafts Business
- About Antiques
- Zope.org News
- YourTravel-hq
- Your Democracy blogs
- Home Equity Loans
- U.S. EPA News for Region 05
- U.S. EPA ~Other News Topics~


Also, I checked one feed site (syndic8.com).  They have a total of 456,744 feeds listed. 

Now, can we call half a million sites mainstream?  Or does it still need Microsoft's seal of approval first?

[Newby]

Sorry for posting to a locked topic, but I spent a lot of time typing this (and btw, to really lock it you should move it to a forum that everybody doesn't moderate):

'tis ok, you actually contributed to it. Warrior just manages to piss me off.

Btw, Yahoo = #1 webpage for bandwidth/hits. I fail to see how that's not mainstream... c'mon War. Look past the end of your nose for once. You might actually learn something.

[Warrior]

Okay all those sites are nice and dandy, do they add up to IE's usage and do they account for most users on the planet? No, sorry.

[iago]

Okay all those sites are nice and dandy, do they add up to IE's usage and do they account for most users on the planet? No, sorry.

But are they mainstream?  Yes.  Is RSS then in the mainstream?  Yes.  Good game. 

[Hitmen]

Okay all those sites are nice and dandy, do they add up to IE's usage and do they account for most users on the planet? No, sorry.

So yahoo (the #1 site on the internet according to alexa), google(#3), cnn(#24), abc news(#25), bbc(#20), doesn't constitute a "large enough" portion of the internet to be considered mainstream? I think that those alone account for at least the vast majority of the average stupid people who use IE and are only online to check the news and their email.

[Warrior]

Okay all those sites are nice and dandy, do they add up to IE's usage and do they account for most users on the planet? No, sorry.

So yahoo (the #1 site on the internet according to alexa), google(#3), cnn(#24), abc news(#25), bbc(#20), doesn't constitute a "large enough" portion of the internet to be considered mainstream? I think that those alone account for at least the vast majority of the average stupid people who use IE and are only online to check the news and their email.

Not if you're talking on a global scale like Sidoh and others want me to. Else if we talked on a more local scale, then Microsoft's comment would be fine.

Now since we're talking on a global scale, until most of the users on the internet use it then it won't be mainstream and it's pretty obvious most users on the internet are using Windows..

[iago]

Not if you're talking on a global scale like Sidoh and others want me to. Else if we talked on a more local scale, then Microsoft's comment would be fine.

Now since we're talking on a global scale, until most of the users on the internet use it then it won't be mainstream and it's pretty obvious most users on the internet are using Windows..

And it's been said here at least a dozen times: just because most Internet web users aren't using it, doesn't mean it's not mainstream.  Most sites use it, and the most popular sites use it.  That makes it mainstream.  Being in the browser will just mean that it's used more.  That's it.  What don't you understand about that?

[Sidoh]

Okay all those sites are nice and dandy, do they add up to IE's usage and do they account for most users on the planet? No, sorry.

Yes, they do.  They account for a ton more than IE's usage.  Especially considering it probably won't do anything (or nearly as much as the sources listed above), it's no argument.  IE isn't bringing RSS to the mainstream.  It's implementing something that's already mainstream.  Microsoft is hopping on the bandwagon.

[Warrior]

Okay all those sites are nice and dandy, do they add up to IE's usage and do they account for most users on the planet? No, sorry.

Yes, they do.  They account for a ton more than IE's usage.  Especially considering it probably won't do anything (or nearly as much as the sources listed above), it's no argument.  IE isn't bringing RSS to the mainstream.  It's implementing something that's already mainstream.  Microsoft is hopping on the bandwagon.

Do you really think that is more than the millions and millions of Windows users? Most windows users (sadly) use IE6 and will move to IE7 in Vista. Vista is expected to make Microsoft's userbase grow as well so let's take that into account. I highly doubt that is more.

[Warrior]

Not if you're talking on a global scale like Sidoh and others want me to. Else if we talked on a more local scale, then Microsoft's comment would be fine.

Now since we're talking on a global scale, until most of the users on the internet use it then it won't be mainstream and it's pretty obvious most users on the internet are using Windows..

And it's been said here at least a dozen times: just because most Internet web users aren't using it, doesn't mean it's not mainstream.  Most sites use it, and the most popular sites use it.  That makes it mainstream.  Being in the browser will just mean that it's used more.  That's it.  What don't you understand about that?

Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought. It is a term most often applied in the arts (i.e., music, literature, and performance). This includes: * something that is not out of the ordinary or unusual;* something that is familiar to the masses;* something that belongs to an identifiable genre, such as detective fiction, horror, fantasy, or science fiction.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream

Common meaning majority, and again you are forgetting what microsoft is talking about when they mean mainstream. If they meant most popular websites, then yes you'd be correct. They will bring RSS to the majority of users and by definition it would become mainstream.

[Sidoh]

Do you really think that is more than the millions and millions of Windows users? Most windows users (sadly) use IE6 and will move to IE7 in Vista. Vista is expected to make Microsoft's userbase grow as well so let's take that into account. I highly doubt that is more.

Do you think there are more people that use Microsoft than use Google, cell phones and news feeds?  I certainly don't.

[Warrior]

Do you really think that is more than the millions and millions of Windows users? Most windows users (sadly) use IE6 and will move to IE7 in Vista. Vista is expected to make Microsoft's userbase grow as well so let's take that into account. I highly doubt that is more.

Do you think there are more people that use Microsoft than use Google, cell phones and news feeds?  I certainly don't.

Yes.

[Sidoh]

Yes.

By the suggestion you were offensively giving us: give reasoning, proof or at least some logical statistic.  Saying "Yes" does absolutely nothing for your argument.

[Warrior]

My reason: It's true. I can't believe you even think that they come close to Microsoft in their numbers.

[Blaze]

Here's what Warrior is saying:  Most people in America use Microsoft Windows.  Microsoft Windows by default uses IE.  If IE uses something it has to become mainstream and COULDN'T ever happen before so.

Is there any truth to that?
No.

Windows is becoming extinct in Europe, because they are too smart to pay for crap.  An upgrade to crap, doesn't make crap better.  They're all buying into Linux and paying companys to make software and give tech support.
( This is what I've heard, I don't know this for sure, but I trust this source )

[Newby]

My reason: It's true. I can't believe you even think that they come close to Microsoft in their numbers.

That's because you can't see past the end of your nose.

I have a question for you, Mr. Winblows Zealot Warrior: How does Microsoft expect to gain back the 10% loss in market share they lost from Firefox? What incentive will users have to switch back?

Don't give me your usual load of crap "the new ie7 will blow firefox away!!!!" I want an actual answer of features that Firefox lacks and IE7 will have and users will want to use.

[Joe]

Okay all those sites are nice and dandy, do they add up to IE's usage and do they account for most users on the planet? No, sorry.

So yahoo (the #1 site on the internet according to alexa), google(#3), cnn(#24), abc news(#25), bbc(#20), doesn't constitute a "large enough" portion of the internet to be considered mainstream? I think that those alone account for at least the vast majority of the average stupid people who use IE and are only online to check the news and their email.

That made me chuckle a bit. Yahoo being the #1 site on the internet, according to people who don't remove spyware (Alexa).

[Sidoh]

My reason: It's true. I can't believe you even think that they come close to Microsoft in their numbers.

I can't you believe that the number of people who are going to use RSS in Internet Explorer are going to outnumber or even come close to the use it already has.  We've given statistics.  You haven't.  You've given rough, invented statements that have no true relevance to the argument.

That's because you can't see past the end of your nose.

I have a question for you, Mr. Winblows Zealot Warrior: How does Microsoft expect to gain back the 10% loss in market share they lost from Firefox? What incentive will users have to switch back?

Don't give me your usual load of crap "the new ie7 will blow firefox away!!!!" I want an actual answer of features that Firefox lacks and IE7 will have and users will want to use.

Holy shit, MS lost 10% market share to Firefox?  That's increadibly bad news for Microsoft! :O

That made me chuckle a bit. Yahoo being the #1 site on the internet, according to people who don't remove spyware (Alexa).

Alexa is probably the most accurate source we have for tracking how the internet is used; most of the people that use the internet are idiots.

The people who do remove spyware probably know what RSS is (or at least use sites that provide syndication feeds), so it's asside from the point.

[Newby]

That's because you can't see past the end of your nose.

I have a question for you, Mr. Winblows Zealot Warrior: How does Microsoft expect to gain back the 10% loss in market share they lost from Firefox? What incentive will users have to switch back?

Don't give me your usual load of crap "the new ie7 will blow firefox away!!!!" I want an actual answer of features that Firefox lacks and IE7 will have and users will want to use.

Holy shit, MS lost 10% market share to Firefox?  That's increadibly bad news for Microsoft! :O

Firefox has slowly creeped up to 10% marketshare.

[Sidoh]

Firefox has slowly creeped up to 10% marketshare.

Haha, that's increadible that browser created by such a small company is able to do that!

[deadly7]

Mozilla's a public company? Or do you not mean "share" as in "stock," as it is often used?

[Newby]

I mean 1 in every 10 browsers is Firefox.

[Sidoh]

I mean 1 in every 10 browsers is Firefox.

Haha, I was pretty confused when you said "share."  I didn't think Mozilla was public! 

[igimo1]

10%? Where are your statistics for this?

[Warrior]

Windows is becoming extinct in Europe, because they are too smart to pay for crap.  An upgrade to crap, doesn't make crap better.  They're all buying into Linux and paying companys to make software and give tech support.
( This is what I've heard, I don't know this for sure, but I trust this source )

You've got to be kidding me. If Wndows was becoming extinct in Europe they wouldn't be in trouble with Antitrust and wouldn't have the EU up their ass, I personally would pull out of EU and tell all of those retards to go fuck themselves sideways but Windows chooses to negotiate. Problem with Microsoft is it walks on a thin line between legal and illegal and it seems to get them introuble on all fronts including the US. I'll agree monopolizing is wrong but saying that Microsoft has no presence in EU is wrong as well.

[Warrior]

My reason: It's true. I can't believe you even think that they come close to Microsoft in their numbers.

That's because you can't see past the end of your nose.

I have a question for you, Mr. Winblows Zealot Warrior: How does Microsoft expect to gain back the 10% loss in market share they lost from Firefox? What incentive will users have to switch back?

Don't give me your usual load of crap "the new ie7 will blow firefox away!!!!" I want an actual answer of features that Firefox lacks and IE7 will have and users will want to use.

And this is related how? So Microsoft has some competition, your point? 10% marketshare bigdeal, how does Firefox intend to take the 90% away from Microsoft? Let's be realistic, it will never happen. Firefox is a great browser, greater than IE no doubt but IE is bundled with Windows. Until something drastic happens to make everyone open their eyes, that's how it's going to stay. Mr. Linux Zealot.

[Warrior]

My reason: It's true. I can't believe you even think that they come close to Microsoft in their numbers.

I can't you believe that the number of people who are going to use RSS in Internet Explorer are going to outnumber or even come close to the use it already has.  We've given statistics.  You haven't.  You've given rough, invented statements that have no true relevance to the argument.

Do you realize how big Windows is? What do you want a handwritten list of each person who uses it? Give me a break, you know how big Windows is you just choose to purposely ignore the obvious.

[Sidoh]

And this is related how? So Microsoft has some competition, your point? 10% marketshare bigdeal, how does Firefox intend to take the 90% away from Microsoft? Let's be realistic, it will never happen. Firefox is a great browser, greater than IE no doubt but IE is bundled with Windows. Until something drastic happens to make everyone open their eyes, that's how it's going to stay. Mr. Linux Zealot.

Little dinky company (Mozilla) vs. Corporate MONSTER (Microsoft).  10% useage is HUGE.

Do you realize how big Windows is? What do you want a handwritten list of each person who uses it? Give me a break, you know how big Windows is you just choose to purposely ignore the obvious.

No, but unless you expect me to believe that everyone on the internet and that has a cell phone uses Windows, you're stupid.

[iago]

Windows is becoming extinct in Europe, because they are too smart to pay for crap.  An upgrade to crap, doesn't make crap better.  They're all buying into Linux and paying companys to make software and give tech support.
( This is what I've heard, I don't know this for sure, but I trust this source )

You've got to be kidding me. If Wndows was becoming extinct in Europe they wouldn't be in trouble with Antitrust and wouldn't have the EU up their ass, I personally would pull out of EU and tell all of those retards to go fuck themselves sideways but Windows chooses to negotiate. Problem with Microsoft is it walks on a thin line between legal and illegal and it seems to get them introuble on all fronts including the US. I'll agree monopolizing is wrong but saying that Microsoft has no presence in EU is wrong as well.

Blaze admitted that his sources may not be correct.  There's no reason you have to be an asshole to him.  Is it because it makes you feel good that you're right about something?

Anyway, what Blaze is probably referring to is that several EU governments have given up Windows in favor of Linux for all government systems.  I don't have sources, but there are at least 2 or 3, possibly more. 

[Newby]

And this is related how? So Microsoft has some competition, your point? 10% marketshare bigdeal, how does Firefox intend to take the 90% away from Microsoft? Let's be realistic, it will never happen. Firefox is a great browser, greater than IE no doubt but IE is bundled with Windows. Until something drastic happens to make everyone open their eyes, that's how it's going to stay. Mr. Linux Zealot.

Who said they could take away the 10% originally? You can't say it will never happen. Never say never, ok?

It took a long, LONG fucking time to get to 10%. If IE continues to lose marketshare as its been dropping, IE7 better have some revolutionary features to even start holding ground again.

Considering my school system uses Firefox over IE now... c'mon. A school system using Firefox? That's pretty big, especially since my system admin is an IDIOT (a thousand or so failed logins on the account "read_your_fucking_logs" from Canada... and no mention of anything... ) and the kids at my school all talk about Firefox and use it.

[Warrior]

Windows is becoming extinct in Europe, because they are too smart to pay for crap.  An upgrade to crap, doesn't make crap better.  They're all buying into Linux and paying companys to make software and give tech support.
( This is what I've heard, I don't know this for sure, but I trust this source )

You've got to be kidding me. If Wndows was becoming extinct in Europe they wouldn't be in trouble with Antitrust and wouldn't have the EU up their ass, I personally would pull out of EU and tell all of those retards to go fuck themselves sideways but Windows chooses to negotiate. Problem with Microsoft is it walks on a thin line between legal and illegal and it seems to get them introuble on all fronts including the US. I'll agree monopolizing is wrong but saying that Microsoft has no presence in EU is wrong as well.

Blaze admitted that his sources may not be correct.  There's no reason you have to be an asshole to him.  Is it because it makes you feel good that you're right about something?

Anyway, what Blaze is probably referring to is that several EU governments have given up Windows in favor of Linux for all government systems.  I don't have sources, but there are at least 2 or 3, possibly more. 

Well since he felt the need to bold every letter of his sentence to look like he said something worthwhile I had to burn him.

[Warrior]

And this is related how? So Microsoft has some competition, your point? 10% marketshare bigdeal, how does Firefox intend to take the 90% away from Microsoft? Let's be realistic, it will never happen. Firefox is a great browser, greater than IE no doubt but IE is bundled with Windows. Until something drastic happens to make everyone open their eyes, that's how it's going to stay. Mr. Linux Zealot.

Little dinky company (Mozilla) vs. Corporate MONSTER (Microsoft).  10% useage is HUGE.

Mozilla is far from a "Little dinky company" and if you havn't noticed, IE wasn't Microsoft's top priority in the last few years.

Do you realize how big Windows is? What do you want a handwritten list of each person who uses it? Give me a break, you know how big Windows is you just choose to purposely ignore the obvious.

No, but unless you expect me to believe that everyone on the internet and that has a cell phone uses Windows, you're stupid.
[/quote]

Where did I say that..? Stop making stuff up.
Unless you expect me to believe every cellphone uses RSS you're stupid. Windows does have the majority of the internet population. No matter how much you pretend, that's how it is and will remain.

[Warrior]

And this is related how? So Microsoft has some competition, your point? 10% marketshare bigdeal, how does Firefox intend to take the 90% away from Microsoft? Let's be realistic, it will never happen. Firefox is a great browser, greater than IE no doubt but IE is bundled with Windows. Until something drastic happens to make everyone open their eyes, that's how it's going to stay. Mr. Linux Zealot.

Who said they could take away the 10% originally? You can't say it will never happen. Never say never, ok?

The day Mozilla shutsout IE (Okay lets make it easy, let them get 60% browser share) ...ahahah. Do you seriously think Mozilla is going to beat out a company which ships it's browser by default with Windows? And you say I CAN't look past the end of my nose? Get over yourself, you seem to be on a mission to make Windows look bad even if it involves making near impossible statements/wishes

Considering my school system uses Firefox over IE now... c'mon. A school system using Firefox? That's pretty big, especially since my system admin is an IDIOT (a thousand or so failed logins on the account "read_your_fucking_logs" from Canada... and no mention of anything... ) and the kids at my school all talk about Firefox and use it.

Uh..okay? One school out of ...millions of users? Wow if it keeps going at this rate they'll be at a whole 11% in no time!!!!1111

[Sidoh]

Mozilla is far from a "Little dinky company" and if you havn't noticed, IE wasn't Microsoft's top priority in the last few years.

Relatively speaking, it is a dinky company.

Where did I say that..? Stop making stuff up.
Unless you expect me to believe every cellphone uses RSS you're stupid. Windows does have the majority of the internet population. No matter how much you pretend, that's how it is and will remain.

No matter how much you pretend, RSS is still already mainstream.

I'm done arguing with a blind, stupid microsoft zealot.

[iago]

Uh..okay? One school out of ...millions of users? Wow if it keeps going at this rate they'll be at a whole 11% in no time!!!!1111

Yes Warrior, his school is the only place in the world that uses Firefox. 

Now you're just annoying me.  I'm going to trash this topic like it should have been a looong time ago.  Let it die peacefully.   (haha, Sidoh posted his frustration while I was typing this.  gg!)