Microsoft Executive Talks With BetaNews

[Newby]

I love how Warrior will totally twist and argue points in favor of Microsoft, but Microsoft doesn't give half a flying fuck about him or any other hobbyists for that matter...

You have to love companies that don't give a shit about the people who develop third party free applications for their OS.

[Warrior]

This is neither politics nor science so what's your point?
The fact is, IE is the mainstream browser, like it or not. It will remain the mainstream browser as long as windows is alive.
Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

Is it that hard to understand I'm implying that "the public" is a completely relative term?

If Microsoft is implying that they're bringing RSS to the mainstream browser, they're absolutely correct.  However, if they're refering to a group of people by mainstream, they're wrong.  RSS has already been brought to the mainstream.  Some just refuse to accept it.

Ok if you want to twist and misintepret their words fine, it's pretty obvious what they're saying. It can be relative if it wants but if it doesn't apply to the context in which they use the word then there is no point in even bringing it up.

Thing is newby, doing the switch from hobbyist to professional is a few years away. Why should they care about people who make them no money and further their company? That's right they shouldn't. I'm a Windows user and that is what gears me to defend microsoft. Now, how am I twisting points in favor of Microsoft or is that another thing you randomly through in there?

[Newby]

Thing is newby, doing the switch from hobbyist to professional is a few years away. Why should they care about people who make them no money and further their company? That's right they shouldn't. I'm a Windows user and that is what gears me to defend microsoft. Now, how am I twisting points in favor of Microsoft or is that another thing you randomly through in there?

You're still a hobbyist and someone Microsoft doesn't want to deal with until then.

Why should they care about people who may write programs that KEEP people on Windows and stops them from switching to Linux/Mac/BSD because Linux/Mac/BSD came with a program they wanted? If anything, I'd rather have them write programs and promote the OS.

You're twisting points in favor of M$ because so far, you seem to avoid the main post in anyone's argument, pick a bit of it out, and attack that. This is from what I've generally read on here and sb.net, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees your posts this way.

Take a look at this post. They said they're "bringing mainstream to the public"

RSS has been mainstream to the public. I know I've been using an RSS feed for slashdot and other news sites for a while now.

I fail to see where M$ is going to bring mainstream to the public, again. Unless they worded that incorrectly. If so, please state the proper wording, and don't use the viewpoint of an M$ employee. Please use the viewpoint of the internet as it is. I believe, the proper wording will be "Bringing RSS into mainstream browser" as they've finally incorporated it into Internet Explorer!

Oh, wait, that IS what they mean by "bringing mainstream to the public"... they just want it to seem so much more dramatic than that.

They're taking their new accomplishments and flourishing them as if they're something new! Security != new in the OS world. RSS != new in the mainstream internet usage. M$ = not innovative.

[Sidoh]

Ok if you want to twist and misintepret their words fine, it's pretty obvious what they're saying. It can be relative if it wants but if it doesn't apply to the context in which they use the word then there is no point in even bringing it up.

Everything is relative.  Everything should be considered relative.  They shouldn't assume people are going to understand that it's only "mainstream" because most people use IE.  If they want to make it easy to misinterpret their words, they shouldn't expect people to feel bad when they do.

[Warrior]

It's understandable if they don't want to deal with me anymore than I'd like to deal with them now. Only time we'll be "dealing with eachother" is when I work for them. Until then I doubt they even know I exist. By the way, when you develop for Windows you are considered by them a "Developer" but since I don't develop for Windows I won't call myself that either in their eyes.

If they want to promote the OS, fine then they are considered Developers in the eyes of MS. If they want to use Windows and develop on a more general scope or for other OSes, they are considered hobbyists.

I don't see how I have avoided any argument here, sure when I have 2-3 people responding at the same time then I may miss a few which I've noticed and by then it was far too old to even be worth it. On SB.net I've responded to all of your replies and generally they are more uninformed and filled with random blah than anything posted here so until you can hold your own don't talk like a big shit here.

On the other hand, let's deal with the actual topic at hand..or are you doing the same thing you just finished scolding me for doing? Eh? Cmon.

They are bringing RSS to the mainstream public, the mainstream public is the majority of the public which is again IE users. Do you still not get it? Talk about word twisting.

[Warrior]

Ok if you want to twist and misintepret their words fine, it's pretty obvious what they're saying. It can be relative if it wants but if it doesn't apply to the context in which they use the word then there is no point in even bringing it up.

Everything is relative.  Everything should be considered relative.  They shouldn't assume people are going to understand that it's only "mainstream" because most people use IE.  If they want to make it easy to misinterpret their words, they shouldn't expect people to feel bad when they do.

Then I'll just conclude all of your arguments have degenerated to twisting around words when it's easy to tell what they mean. If you want to do that it's fine by me, just know at the end of the day that's all you're doing. Whatever makes you guys feel better.

[Sidoh]

Then I'll just conclude all of your arguments have degenerated to twisting around words when it's easy to tell what they mean. If you want to do that it's fine by me, just know at the end of the day that's all you're doing. Whatever makes you guys feel better.

It would be much more valid to say I'm not twisting words to the colloquial way they are using them.

[iago]

Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

No.

Let's take a counter-example.  Let's say that Microsoft adds the ability to write Word documents to Internet Explorer.  Does writing Word documents then become mainstream?  No.  Therefore, your premise is flawed and the rest of your arguments are irrelevant. 

As Hitmen said, if something is already mainstream, it cannot become mainstream.  Warrior, you're arguing the completely wrong argument.  You shouldn't be arguing that "Microsoft is so awesome", as you seem to do in every thread.  You should be arguing that RSS wasn't ever mainstream.  Any other argument is completely vaccuous. 

[Newby]

They are bringing RSS to the mainstream public, the mainstream public is the majority of the public which is again IE users. Do you still not get it? Talk about word twisting.

RSS has been mainstream. I can use it on CNN. I can use it on bbc. I can use it on slashdot. I can use it on many many webpages.

I don't know how much more you can make RSS mainstream, besides implementing it in your browser, which would just further its mainstream usage.

[Warrior]

They are bringing RSS to the mainstream public, the mainstream public is the majority of the public which is again IE users. Do you still not get it? Talk about word twisting.

RSS has been mainstream. I can use it on CNN. I can use it on bbc. I can use it on slashdot. I can use it on many many webpages.

I don't know how much more you can make RSS mainstream, besides implementing it in your browser, which would just further its mainstream usage.

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

[Newby]

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

Please see iago's argument on adding the ability to write Word documents inside of Internet Explorer.

That's the dumbest argument I've EVER heard.

Yes, it's very hard to understand. I don't see how something that is mainstream already can re-become mainstream because a company added it to their web browser.

[Warrior]

Anything Microsoft puts in IE becomes mainstream. No possible way that can be argued.

No.

Let's take a counter-example.  Let's say that Microsoft adds the ability to write Word documents to Internet Explorer.  Does writing Word documents then become mainstream?  No.  Therefore, your premise is flawed and the rest of your arguments are irrelevant. 

No, Word has already been used by the majority for a while..what are you getting at?

As Hitmen said, if something is already mainstream, it cannot become mainstream.  Warrior, you're arguing the completely wrong argument.  You shouldn't be arguing that "Microsoft is so awesome", as you seem to do in every thread.  You should be arguing that RSS wasn't ever mainstream.  Any other argument is completely vaccuous. 

Thing is, RSS isn't mainstream. I said until Microsoft implements it on IE, it won't ever become mainstream..I'd think you would atleast be able to grab that. Cmon, it isn't hard people.

[Warrior]

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

Please see iago's argument on adding the ability to write Word documents inside of Internet Explorer.

That's the dumbest argument I've EVER heard.

Responded.

Are you seriously that stupid? Which browser dominates the market? IE. Which browser gets more users? IE.
Firefox despite what you may wish or whatever doesn't get as much users as IE. So they can use RSS sure, but it's still a low number compared to IE. When IE implements it then it will become mainstream because the majority will be using it.
I will make a pie chart next time you respond with something this stupid.

[Newby]

I said until Microsoft implements it on IE, it won't ever become mainstream..I'd think you would atleast be able to grab that. Cmon, it isn't hard people.

Get off your high horse of "M$ is teh mainstream pusher!" and realize that RSS has been mainstream for a while. (I don't feel like adding more links. Just google search "RSS is mainstream" for me please.)

You have to realize the number of users using it does not define whether or not it is mainstream. Plenty of clients have utilized RSS. Hell, even eggdrops on IRC utilize RSS...

[Sidoh]

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

Maybe you don't understand what RSS is?  A browser isn't the only intended user end application of RSS.  Several websites and applications already make use of RSS.