Microsoft Executive Talks With BetaNews

[Warrior]

Then I'll just conclude all of your arguments have degenerated to twisting around words when it's easy to tell what they mean. If you want to do that it's fine by me, just know at the end of the day that's all you're doing. Whatever makes you guys feel better.

It would be much more valid to say I'm not twisting words to the colloquial way they are using them.

Hey, again you're blaming them for you misinterpreting. Seems pretty ironic when I blamed you for me misinterpreting you said it was my fault and that I should have known..stop twisting things to fit your arguments.

[Warrior]

Let's see, what browser do you use? Firefox. Does IE6 have RSS? No.

Now, it will NOT become mainstream UNTIL Microsoft implements it because of their large user base.
Christ is it that hard for you to understand? Regardless of how much "You use it" or any other Firefox user uses it, it still
isn't mainstream since IE doesn't have it. When IE has it then the majority of Windows will use it and it will effectively become mainstream.

Maybe you don't understand what RSS is?  A browser isn't the only intended user end application of RSS.  Several websites and applications already make use of RSS.

I know what RSS is, even withought IE and withought browsers. The usage is still minimal compared to the monumental growth when IE7 is released officially. Until that growth is achieved withought IE7, Microsoft is right in saying they are moving it to mainstream.

[Newby]

Warrior:

In mid 2000, use of RSS spread to many of the major news organizations, including Reuters, CNN, and the BBC. These providers allow other websites to incorporate their "syndicated" headline or headline-and-short-summary feeds under various usage agreements. RSS is now used for many purposes, including marketing, bug-reports, or any other activity involving periodic updates or publications.

Explain how it didn't go mainstream at that point.

No, M$ is not right in saying they are making it go mainstream because one client is going to use it.

I somehow doubt that usage of RSS feeds will go up at that point, seeing as how they haven't needed the feature or had it up until this point, and may see it as a useless feature.

[Warrior]

I said until Microsoft implements it on IE, it won't ever become mainstream..I'd think you would atleast be able to grab that. Cmon, it isn't hard people.

Get off your high horse of "M$ is teh mainstream pusher!" and realize that RSS has been mainstream for a while. (I don't feel like adding more links. Just google search "RSS is mainstream" for me please.)

I attacked that in Sidoh's claim. I also believe I've posted the definition to mainstream again if you still don't understand.

You have to realize the number of users using it does not define whether or not it is mainstream. Plenty of clients have utilized RSS. Hell, even eggdrops on IRC utilize RSS...

Perhaps you want to look at my posted definition of mainstreaming as well?

[Sidoh]

Hey, again you're blaming them for you misinterpreting. Seems pretty ironic when I blamed you for me misinterpreting you said it was my fault and that I should have known..stop twisting things to fit your arguments.

No, I'm blaming them for implying things with words that don't mean what they're intending them to.

I knew you'd bring that up.  The difference is, I assume you're intelligent.  Microsoft can't assume that most of their users are that intelligent.  The average person on planet Earth is stupid or uneducated.

I'm not twisting things to fit my arguments.  I've consistently argued that words should be used to fit their formal definition.  If everyone used words in a colloquial fashion, conversation would be a very difficult task.

I know what RSS is, even withought IE and withought browsers. The usage is still minimal compared to the monumental growth when IE7 is released officially. Until that growth is achieved withought IE7, Microsoft is right in saying they are moving it to mainstream.

Then you're obviously unaware of the already huge use, application and potential (discluding any of Microsoft's products) for any sort of syndication, RSS included.  RSS largely used outside of browsers.  In fact, even after it's put into IE7, I highly doubt that browsers of any creator are going to be the main consumer of RSS.

[Warrior]

Warrior:

In mid 2000, use of RSS spread to many of the major news organizations, including Reuters, CNN, and the BBC. These providers allow other websites to incorporate their "syndicated" headline or headline-and-short-summary feeds under various usage agreements. RSS is now used for many purposes, including marketing, bug-reports, or any other activity involving periodic updates or publications.

Explain how it didn't go mainstream at that point.

Because it didn't have the huge amount of user base it will have after IE7 is done with it.

No, M$ is not right in saying they are making it go mainstream because one client is going to use it.

I somehow doubt that usage of RSS feeds will go up at that point, seeing as how they haven't needed the feature or had it up until this point, and may see it as a useless feature.

People are going to use IE7 and people are going to use RSS. RSS usage goes up, it moves into mainstream because the majority of users in the world will either know about it or use it. Again I'm explaining this for what, the 5th time?

[Newby]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream

Definition:

Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought of the majority. It is a term most often applied in the arts (i.e., music, literature, and performance). This includes:

    * something that is ordinary or usual;
    * something that is familiar to the masses;
    * something that is available to the general public.

RSS feeds have been available to the general public for quite some time now. IE7 is just one of the hundreds of clients that have utilized RSS for what, five years now? That would make RSS mainstream. How can you push something into the mainstream after it's already been there?

[Warrior]

Hey, again you're blaming them for you misinterpreting. Seems pretty ironic when I blamed you for me misinterpreting you said it was my fault and that I should have known..stop twisting things to fit your arguments.

No, I'm blaming them for implying things with words that don't mean what they're intending them to.

I knew you'd bring that up.  The difference is, I assume you're intelligent.  Microsoft can't assume that most of their users are that intelligent.  The average person on planet Earth is stupid or uneducated.

So did you just insult your intelligence? The majority of people reading your post before could have ranged from anyone. So that doesn't make much sense.

I'm not twisting things to fit my arguments.  I've consistently argued that words should be used to fit their formal definition.  If everyone used words in a colloquial fashion, conversation would be a very difficult task.

Of course you just proved that you did, besides the fact you giving whatever explination you still did it.

I know what RSS is, even withought IE and withought browsers. The usage is still minimal compared to the monumental growth when IE7 is released officially. Until that growth is achieved withought IE7, Microsoft is right in saying they are moving it to mainstream.

Then you're obviously unaware of the already huge use, application and potential (discluding any of Microsoft's products) for any sort of syndication, RSS included.  RSS largely used outside of browsers.  In fact, even after it's put into IE7, I highly doubt that browsers of any creator are going to be the main consumer of RSS.

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

[Warrior]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream

Definition:

Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought of the majority. It is a term most often applied in the arts (i.e., music, literature, and performance). This includes:

    * something that is ordinary or usual;
    * something that is familiar to the masses;
    * something that is available to the general public.

RSS feeds have been available to the general public for quite some time now. IE7 is just one of the hundreds of clients that have utilized RSS for what, five years now? That would make RSS mainstream. How can you push something into the mainstream after it's already been there?

Again, for what I'll assume to be the 6th time: It will not be mainstream until the majority of users  are using RSS. Majority meaning most in the world. We're speaking on a global scale here, Microsoft is speaking on a global scale. They are going to push RSS usage to the max and the users before are going to seem like nothing. Same challenge to you I gave to Sidoh. Find me one service which will pull as much RSS users as IE7 will and I'll back down and say IE7 wont bring it into mainstream

[Newby]

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

RSS feeding servers. Oh, damn.

Again, for what I'll assume to be the 6th time: It will not be mainstream until the majority of users  are using RSS. Majority meaning most in the world. We're speaking on a global scale here, Microsoft is speaking on a global scale. They are going to push RSS usage to the max and the users before are going to seem like nothing.

You're a fucking idiot. If more people use it, it will still be as mainstream as it was before.

You missed where I said how is it going to just NOW go mainstream if, by definition, it HAS been available to the general public?

I fail to see how where it's been offered before and utilized by hundreds of clients before meant nothing, it was just underground. Yeah, CNN and such are underground webpages and RSS parsers that used them are too!

If a band is very mainstream and suddenly a new country hears about it, they're still mainstream. They weren't pulled out and pushed back in and they didn't get mainstreamer (if that's a word) because 100K more fans listen to them now.

Oh yeah, you did it again. You avoided my point (I bolded it again this time) and posted what you thought.

[Warrior]

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

RSS feeding servers. Oh, damn.

I've bolded where you fail. Try again.

Again, for what I'll assume to be the 6th time: It will not be mainstream until the majority of users  are using RSS. Majority meaning most in the world. We're speaking on a global scale here, Microsoft is speaking on a global scale. They are going to push RSS usage to the max and the users before are going to seem like nothing.

You're a fucking idiot. If more people use it, it will still be as mainstream as it was before.

You missed where I said how is it going to just NOW go mainstream if, by definition, it HAS been available to the general public?

I fail to see how where it's been offered before and utilized by hundreds of clients before meant nothing, it was just underground. Yeah, CNN and such are underground webpages and RSS parsers that used them are too!

If a band is very mainstream and suddenly a new country hears about it, they're still mainstream. They weren't pulled out and pushed back in and they didn't get mainstreamer (if that's a word) because 100K more fans listen to them now.

No, like I said it is not mainstream until it is used by a majority in the world. Microsoft is claiming they can do that, no one else can say that. They are correct in saying that.

RSS can be popular among CNN or whatever the hell you want but face it, Windows is the majority. You seem to be neglecting to accept that because you're too hardcore Linux. Come back when you face reality.

[Newby]

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

RSS feeding servers. Oh, damn.

I've bolded where you fail. Try again.

RSS feeding servers are what are delivering RSS feeds from very popular mainstream news webpages. It can't get much more mainstream than that. It can have a much higher user base, but it's still mainstream, regardless if it has 100K users or 100M users...

It delivers them to the general public. By definition, it's mainstream.

No, like I said it is not mainstream until it is used by a majority in the world. Microsoft is claiming they can do that, no one else can say that. They are correct in saying that.

RSS can be popular among CNN or whatever the hell you want but face it, Windows is the majority. You seem to be neglecting to accept that because you're too hardcore Linux. Come back when you face reality.

Come back when you finally realize it has been mainstream beacuse it's been available to the general public in a form of a hundred or more different clients for the last five years.

Please define how that doesn't make it mainstream. I don't give a damn about how many users it has. That is a user base, not mainstream or underground. I want to know why the M$ users couldn't utilize those hundred of so clients that utilized RSS feeds.

Nice pick on my Linux usage, by the way.

EDIT -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_news_aggregators

[Sidoh]

So did you just insult your intelligence? The majority of people reading your post before could have ranged from anyone. So that doesn't make much sense.

No, since I understand what they're intending to say.  If every word in that sentence is taken by its formal definition, their claim is completely false, though.  You're insulting your own intelligence by not realizing we're correct, though!

Of course you just proved that you did, besides the fact you giving whatever explination you still did it.

No, I didn't.  Microsoft is twisting words; I'm not.

I highly doubt that to be true, RSS usage will shoot through the roof and be lead by IE7 users. What other source of people as large as IE7 use RSS? Note: This must be one specific service which makes RSS usage "mainstream". I highly doubt any single service other than IE can pull that off, especially non MS.

Again, you're obviously aware of how many other applications there are for RSS.  Do you understand how powerful, usefull and important syndication is?  Since RSS is the main protocol used for syndication, it's already used by the mainstream, whether they realize it or not.  Cell Phones use (or can use) RSS.  I'm pretty confident that will already have the upper hand on IE7.  RSS already has huge application.  IE7 implementing it isn't going to have much of an affect on how RSS is used.  Using a hyperbole, it's like Microsoft implementing a field in IE7 that queries a search engine and then claiming they're bringing "search engines to the main stream."

[deadly7]

Google uses RSS for their Personalized Home Pages.  All IE users have access to that RSS.  Thus, RSS is, and has been, mainstream.

[iago]

This argument (like all arguments with Warrior) is pointless and stupid.  Warrior isn't going to have his mind changed by facts or arguments, he's too locked into his single way of thinking.  I move that this and the other thread on General be locked due to being totally pointless.