Author Topic: Why Windows Vista won't suck.  (Read 12443 times)

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Offline Sidoh

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2006, 02:34:29 am »
Why don't we look at the other great things... like moving the drivers to the User Mode to avoid BSOD's and causing the whole OS to hang ;O? I think that is brilliant. Though they should have thought about it earlier p_o.

Because we were looking at this!  I think it's a pretty neat feature.

But yes, that's an awesome thing too.  I'm looking forward to giving Vista a try. :)

Offline Warrior

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2006, 02:44:32 am »
Per application volume control is promising and the improved audio stack is a beauty.
Am I the only one who thinks this sounds really annoying?

Anyway, I don't trust anything that Microsoft says.  Time and time again, they talk big and release crap.  So we'll see. 

Appearantly. I think it's a useful feature that the OS has needed, other than them switching to 32Bit floating point operations in
the audio stack.

I don't know how you're doubting features backed by screenshots and mentioned in multiple reviews, not like they just coded it in their to lie to the user..I think you're just not looking at it from both sides, everyone else is.

His article while not being as technical as I hoped, got his point across. He stated features everyone wouldn't notice right away the "under the hood" features.

"The DX10 graphics API will usher in unified vertex and pixel shaders, and introduce the concept of "geometry shaders" that can act on not just single vertices, but whole triangles and their adjacent vertices. Developers will be able to stream out data from the GPU and reuse it without needing the CPU to do a single thing, so a lot of the CPU load seen in current graphics drivers and games should be reduced. DX10 should allow for more flexible and granular graphics memory access, and in general allow GPUs to be far more flexible and powerful than before."

This is currently my favorite feature. It is insane and it's what they currently do with their UI (as I've explained before) which means less CPU load for more power. Everything is in 3D world, so things scale easily unlike in XP where if you changed a reso (Like I did a few days ago) everything goes whacky. I havn't tested the resolution feature yet but I have tested that you CAN scale iconsto rediculous sizes. Of course the UI isn't DX10 (Too bad) but that was so more people support it.

"There's some real meat to the new compositing and drawing engine; it's not all for visual fluff. For starters, you don't have to worry about that whole "moving a busy window blanks out part of the screen" thing."

That is part of Avalon (WPF) iirc, it's how the system displays hung Windows. They will no longer turn "All white" with the look that you can erase them when you move over, they simply freeze their rendering to that current frame. It seems to work quite well. I think a lot of work has been put into this not only making it work but making it an easy to use developer solution, most people only see the UI and overlook this.

I havn't tested the backup app yet but in most reviews it's been getting 5 stars so :).

@Ergot: The problem with doing it earlier was the lack of hardware. Let's say when XP came out, hardware was JUST getting good. IT was just getting fast enough for us to move things  to usermode and suffer no performance loss. If we would have done this in Windows98 or even WindowsXP when it first came out, it would have decreased performance while increasing stability. Same reason Video stuff was always in Kernel mode.
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Offline Sidoh

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2006, 02:46:12 am »
I don't think he's doubting the feature.  I think he's doubting that the feature will work well.

Offline Warrior

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2006, 03:17:37 am »
Well it has been tested by multiple users with thumbs up so far, if it would of sucked they would have said so. I personally have not tried this, next time I boot Vista I will.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2006, 07:52:41 am »
Per application volume control is promising and the improved audio stack is a beauty.
Am I the only one who thinks this sounds really annoying?
I think it sounds really useful.  You may not use Windows enough to notice, but I generally turn sounds off in some IM apps because of the annoying sound volume.  If they're going to fix it so that I can just turn an app's sound volume down, that's WAY better.

The only sound-creating programs I run at once are either [Gaim+Wimamp] or [WoW+Winamp]. In either case, I set system volume, and then set Winamp to a comfortable volume.
I'd personally do as Joe suggests

You might be right about that, Joe.


Offline Newby

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2006, 08:59:52 am »
Other than music what else would you run?  Because expierences with the media players is that they do not affect each other. In fact, I have run WMP at almost mute, then play a song in Winamp at a different volume right after without moving the slider.

Hate to break it to you, but Winamp controls one of the volume sliders in the sound panel. Not the main one, but one of them.
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That analogy doesn't even make sense.  Why would a water balloon be especially bloated on a hot summer's day? For your sake, I hope there wasn't too much logic testing on your LSAT. 

Offline Warrior

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2006, 10:08:56 am »
What do you guys think about explorer restarting itself on a crash? It seems to do it almost immediately when it crashed for me, what if the same bug keep occuring? Will it be stuck in a loop of restarts?
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Offline MyndFyre

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2006, 10:26:33 am »
What do you guys think about explorer restarting itself on a crash? It seems to do it almost immediately when it crashed for me, what if the same bug keep occuring? Will it be stuck in a loop of restarts?
Usually it's still possible to stop this by end-tasking either explorer.exe or dwwin32.exe

The only sound-creating programs I run at once are either [Gaim+Wimamp] or [WoW+Winamp]. In either case, I set system volume, and then set Winamp to a comfortable volume.
Hrm let me think...

- Windows Media Player
- Trillian
- Star Wars Galaxies

But even so what if they're not concurrently?  I know Trillian's sound volume tends to be too high in general.  So what if I want to turn it down?

This kind of a feature is something I wouldn't expect Microsoft to put into Vista in anything short of a PowerToy -- something where you can reset global volume settings but still persist some things (that are "locked" volume).  Like I said, I know Trillian's sound is almost always too high -- so I lock it in at 35% normal volume relative to the system master volume.

I think that as discussed, the feature is highly effective, and has the potential to be great, although I doubt it will be great at release. 

Maybe I'll crack the beta though and release a PowerToy to make it great.
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Offline iago

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2006, 11:59:34 am »
What do you guys think about explorer restarting itself on a crash? It seems to do it almost immediately when it crashed for me, what if the same bug keep occuring? Will it be stuck in a loop of restarts?

It seems to me (from my Linux perspective) that there should be something running underneath Explorer (like a fail-safe shell or whatever, doesn't have to be Linuxy or even a shell) that would come up and allow simple diagnostics and stuff.  But that's jsut me. 

Offline Warrior

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2006, 03:04:49 pm »
I think the same approach is taken when nesting exceptions. They have a static counter to see how many times it's been restarted for the same reason, if it keeps restarting for the same reason in a short amount of time it should assume that the problem can't be fixed and then restart or something.
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-- from Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Trolling

Offline MyndFyre

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2006, 03:10:19 pm »
What do you guys think about explorer restarting itself on a crash? It seems to do it almost immediately when it crashed for me, what if the same bug keep occuring? Will it be stuck in a loop of restarts?

It seems to me (from my Linux perspective) that there should be something running underneath Explorer (like a fail-safe shell or whatever, doesn't have to be Linuxy or even a shell) that would come up and allow simple diagnostics and stuff.  But that's jsut me. 

If something happens that causes the shell to crash, though, and only once, why would we need to have a textmode shell come up to do diagnostics?  Typically that stuff is recorded and reported anyway.
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Offline iago

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2006, 07:14:54 pm »
What do you guys think about explorer restarting itself on a crash? It seems to do it almost immediately when it crashed for me, what if the same bug keep occuring? Will it be stuck in a loop of restarts?

It seems to me (from my Linux perspective) that there should be something running underneath Explorer (like a fail-safe shell or whatever, doesn't have to be Linuxy or even a shell) that would come up and allow simple diagnostics and stuff.  But that's jsut me. 

If something happens that causes the shell to crash, though, and only once, why would we need to have a textmode shell come up to do diagnostics?  Typically that stuff is recorded and reported anyway.

Well, I was thinking an ncurses-style shell interface.  If it crashed, that could be a kernel panic (bluescreen...whatever).  It would be simple enough that it probably wouldn't crash. 

But, who knows :)

Offline MyndFyre

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2006, 09:24:47 pm »
Well, I was thinking an ncurses-style shell interface.  If it crashed, that could be a kernel panic (bluescreen...whatever).  It would be simple enough that it probably wouldn't crash. 

But, who knows :)
If it's a kernel panic then I could see having a shell come up to do this.

War, I'm really hoping they're not claiming the 15-minute install is in right now.  It took about an hour+15 to install it.... at least, I think the setup is done now.

 :o
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Offline Ergot

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2006, 10:10:41 pm »
Well, I was thinking an ncurses-style shell interface.  If it crashed, that could be a kernel panic (bluescreen...whatever).  It would be simple enough that it probably wouldn't crash. 

But, who knows :)
If it's a kernel panic then I could see having a shell come up to do this.

War, I'm really hoping they're not claiming the 15-minute install is in right now.  It took about an hour+15 to install it.... at least, I think the setup is done now.

 :o
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Offline iago

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Re: Why Windows Vista won't suck.
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2006, 10:12:09 pm »
Well, I was thinking an ncurses-style shell interface.  If it crashed, that could be a kernel panic (bluescreen...whatever).  It would be simple enough that it probably wouldn't crash. 

But, who knows :)
If it's a kernel panic then I could see having a shell come up to do this.

War, I'm really hoping they're not claiming the 15-minute install is in right now.  It took about an hour+15 to install it.... at least, I think the setup is done now.

 :o

Did you check the license to make sure you're allowed to share your speed?  Or is benchmarking Vista also illegal? :)