PS3 will come with... Linux?

[iago]

Linux and Gaming both seemed like appropriate places to post this, so instead I opted for General. 

Anyway, according to this article, the Sony Playstation 3 will come with a "60-gig hard drive, built-in network card, and Linux"

[Sidoh]

Linux and Gaming both seemed like appropriate places to post this, so instead I opted for General. 

Anyway, according to this article, the Sony Playstation 3 will come with a "60-gig hard drive, built-in network card, and Linux"

Cool.  I'm a nub when it comes to console gaming systems, so I'll ask a nub question.  Did the Xbox 360 ship with Linux?

[Warrior]

No, like all other systems it can be modded. PS3 will feature free online as well. That's pretty awesome.

[iago]

Linux and Gaming both seemed like appropriate places to post this, so instead I opted for General. 

Anyway, according to this article, the Sony Playstation 3 will come with a "60-gig hard drive, built-in network card, and Linux"

Cool.  I'm a nub when it comes to console gaming systems, so I'll ask a nub question.  Did the Xbox 360 ship with Linux?

I'm not sure what the Xbox 360's operating system is based on.  Since it's produced by Microsoft, I doubt it is Linux. 

I also doubt that the PS3 will come with any standard Linux variant, it's probably modified extensively to suit them. 

[Sidoh]

I'm not sure what the Xbox 360's operating system is based on.  Since it's produced by Microsoft, I doubt it is Linux. 

I also doubt that the PS3 will come with any standard Linux variant, it's probably modified extensively to suit them. 

Hehe, kind of a stupid question.  Oh well.

[GameSnake]

Playstation will own MicroSoft in the next-gen console wars for sure.

[CrAz3D]

No, like all other systems it can be modded. PS3 will feature free online as well. That's pretty awesome.

Free online!?

Like how you have to pay for XBox live access you'll just be able to hookup online like Battle.Net!?
*gasp*
Looks like I'll be buying a PS3.

Must stand in line to buy 2 of them.  One to hock on eBay & one to keep.

[Sidoh]

From my understanding, which is most certaily outdated, I thought that Sony wasn't going to implement a centralized multiplayer service like XBox Live?

[Warrior]

It was announced recently they are. There are several groups trying to get Linux on a 360, the current OS it uses is a stripped down XP (iirc) which is almost monotasking

[Joe]

Playstation will own MicroSoft in the next-gen console wars for sure.

And then Nintendo Revolution will own them all. NES games for life!

[MyndFyre]

I'm not sure what the Xbox 360's operating system is based on.  Since it's produced by Microsoft, I doubt it is Linux. 

I also doubt that the PS3 will come with any standard Linux variant, it's probably modified extensively to suit them. 

I'm sure the 360's OS is related to Windows in some way.  The original (Xbox OS) was based on Windows 2000, but heavily modified to a point where it was barely recognizable.  Considering that the Xbox 360 uses a tri-dual-core-PowerPC-processor architecture, I doubt that the kernel is even close to being the same.  It also uses non-traditional shader pipelines and allows the memory to be partitioned as the developer sees fit (as opposed to giving you memory and saying "that's what you get").  So a lot of things are much different than your traditional PC game programming, and I'm not sure that Windows would translate well.

As for the PS3 having Linux....  Isn't the point of Linux to bring Unix to x86 (or isn't that its roots)?  PS3 uses the Core processor, in this case a system with 7 symmetric cores (with one redundant) and the PowerPC-driver processor.

PS3 will feature free online as well. That's pretty awesome.

I haven't heard a thing about this, which is odd considering I've been following this generation pretty closely (since I was a 360 early adopter).  They seem to be putting a lot of eggs in one basket if it's true; I can't imagine they want to lose *that* much money on *every* PS3 console.  They might be offering a free basic service like Xbox 360 Live Silver.

[CrAz3D]

http://www.ps3portal.com/ps3/article/315.html
That article talks about PS3 BASIC online access being free.  Boo.

[GameSnake]

Playstation will own MicroSoft in the next-gen console wars for sure.

And then Nintendo Revolution will own them all. NES games for life!

The point is Linux is going mainstream and finally out classing Microsoft.. finally.

[Joe]

The point of Linux was to bring UNIX to open-source. Linus himself uses a PowerPC, and IIRC, UNIX is x86 only.

[CrAz3D]

Playstation will own MicroSoft in the next-gen console wars for sure.

And then Nintendo Revolution will own them all. NES games for life!

The point is Linux is going mainstream and finally out classing Microsoft.. finally.

Out classing Microsoft?  What do you mean?

[Sidoh]

The point is Linux is going mainstream and finally out classing Microsoft.. finally.

No... its... not.

[GameSnake]

The point is Linux is going mainstream and finally out classing Microsoft.. finally.

No... its... not.

NO, I forgot, Sidoh will disagree with ANYthing GameSnake says, and he's ALWAYS right! It's simple, PS3 being shipped with Linux = Linux going mainstream, how can it not? Sony isn't a major mainstream company? I guess if Sony isn't maintstream then niether is Microsoft.

[Sidoh]

NO, I forgot, Sidoh will disagree with ANYthing GameSnake says, and he's ALWAYS right!

I disagree with almost everything you say because I seriously believe almost everything you say is a horribly generalized statement or assumption.

It's simple, PS3 being shipped with Linux = Linux going mainstream, how can it not? Sony isn't a major mainstream company?

It may be on shipped devices, but it's not going to "out class" Microsoft.  It will only be used in the same way that people use the internet (which relies extremely heavily on *NIX servers).  They'll use it, but they won't know / won't care unless they've used Linux before (or care about it).

I guess if Sony isn't maintstream then niether is Microsoft.

*sigh*.  Why can't you read your own posts?

[GameSnake]

NO, I forgot, Sidoh will disagree with ANYthing GameSnake says, and he's ALWAYS right!

I disagree with almost everything you say because I seriously believe almost everything you say is a horribly generalized statement or assumption.

It's simple, PS3 being shipped with Linux = Linux going mainstream, how can it not? Sony isn't a major mainstream company?

It may be on shipped devices, but it's not going to "out class" Microsoft.  It will only be used in the same way that people use the internet (which relies extremely heavily on *NIX servers).  They'll use it, but they won't know / won't care unless they've used Linux before (or care about it).

I guess if Sony isn't maintstream then niether is Microsoft.

*sigh*.  Why can't you read your own posts?

If the PS3 has a Linux OS on it, don't you think that is a major leap in exposure for Linux? I mean let's say atleast 30 million people buy the PS3 (45 million bought the PS1, 40 million the PS2), then this is indeed "main stream"? I'm just curious, what do you classify as main stream? How many people have to be exposed to something before the thing is "generally known" in the general public, to you?

[Warrior]

It will be very hard for Linux to become mainstream for desktop usage. It is however a mainstream OS. It's more well known than the other hobby (or former hobby) OSes.

Consider the facts atleast, while most people will disagree with Microsoft's actions, their marketing techniques alone bring them plenty of usage. The only time I can see Linux possibly making a move is if Vista somehow fails. Then however they'd more or less be  competing with Tiger 10.5

[Sidoh]

If the PS3 has a Linux OS on it, don't you think that is a major leap in exposure for Linux?

Sure.  It doesn't mean it's going to "out class" Microsoft, though.  Like I said, I highly doubt most of the users are going to even realize that they're using Linux.

I mean let's say atleast 30 million people buy the PS3 (45 million bought the PS1, 40 million the PS2), then this is indeed "main stream"?

For the third time, GameSnake, I'm telling you you're incorrect by saying "Linux is going to out class Microsoft simply because the PS3 is going to ship with Linux."  No.

I'm just curious, what do you classify as main stream? How many people have to be exposed to something before the thing is "generally known" in the general public, to you?

Once again, you failed to read your own post and realize which one of your "points" I was attacking.

[MyndFyre]

NO, I forgot, Sidoh will disagree with ANYthing GameSnake says, and he's ALWAYS right!

I think Sidoh disagrees with you because you make dumbass posts.

It's simple, PS3 being shipped with Linux = Linux going mainstream, how can it not? Sony isn't a major mainstream company?

What's Linux's desktop marketshare, 5, maybe 10% tops?  Assuming the populations who buy computers and who buy PS3s are similar, then the people who care that Linux is the OS on the PS3 will be about 5, maybe 10% tops.

I guess if Sony isn't maintstream then niether is Microsoft.

You're a moron.

If the PS3 has a Linux OS on it, don't you think that is a major leap in exposure for Linux? I mean let's say atleast 30 million people buy the PS3 (45 million bought the PS1, 40 million the PS2), then this is indeed "main stream"? I'm just curious, what do you classify as main stream? How many people have to be exposed to something before the thing is "generally known" in the general public, to you?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Amainstream

Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought. It is a term most often applied in the arts (i.e., music, literature, and performance). This includes: * something that is not out of the ordinary or unusual;* something that is familiar to the masses;* something that belongs to an identifiable genre, such as detective fiction, horror, fantasy, or science fiction.

(emphasis added).

The Linux-y features of the OS won't be utilized by the mainstream public because it's 1.) not familiar to the masses, 2.) perhaps not applicable to a PS3 owner in the mainstream because they already own a computer, and 3.) just want to use their console for console-y stuff.

[iago]

The point of Linux was to bring UNIX to open-source. Linus himself uses a PowerPC, and IIRC, UNIX is x86 only.

You're partly right.  Mostly wrong, though

First of all, UNIX was first written in the 1960's, and the x86 architecture is from the 1980's.  So you're wrong there. 

But point of Linux was NOT to bring UNIX to meanstream.  That's GNU.  The point of Linux is that Linus wanted to write his own OS for the fun of it, or something, and in the early 1990's he did.  I don't think there were any overbearing reasons.  GNU and the Free Software Foundation were inventented in the 1980's to write POSIX (Portable OS Interface for Unix, I think) software that was free, and to encourage free software.  They had written or ported everything from compilers to editors, but they didn't have an OS.  Then they found out about Linus's project, and they paired up with him. 



I agree that PS3's running Linux will bring Linux more into mainstream.  Or maybe more into center-stage instead of off in the wings, metaphorically.  I'd bet a lot more home users will use their PS3 than those who use Linux on their personal computers.  I'm not saying it's going to be any kind of revolution, it's not.  But this is the kind of thing that Linux was designed for, and what it excels at. 

[igimo1]

It'll be a hard drive with Linux on it, but I doubt you'll be able to utilize many of what's so interesting about Linux (does it come with a keyboard? will you be able to download free software? will you be able to run a window manager?), and just because you're exposing a few interfaces of Linux on the PS3 won't make it mainstream - people will just think, hey, my PS3 runs on Linux! and that'll be the end of it.

[iago]

It'll be a hard drive with Linux on it, but I doubt you'll be able to utilize many of what's so interesting about Linux (does it come with a keyboard? will you be able to download free software? will you be able to run a window manager?), and just because you're exposing a few interfaces of Linux on the PS3 won't make it mainstream - people will just think, hey, my PS3 runs on Linux! and that'll be the end of it.

Linux is frequently found in onboard devices that don't have any sort of GUI whatsoever.  The only thing that's Linux is the core operating system, everything else is custom.  Many kinds of routers and switches (NOT Cisco) are like that.  I'm guessing that's the same as this. 

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe it WILL be a full Linux install

[Sidoh]

Linux is frequently found in onboard devices that don't have any sort of GUI whatsoever.  The only thing that's Linux is the core operating system, everything else is custom.  Many kinds of routers and switches (NOT Cisco) are like that.  I'm guessing that's the same as this. 

Of course, I could be wrong.  Maybe it WILL be a full Linux install

I really doubt it will be.  It's much to specific a device to not have an extremely customized OS.

[MyndFyre]

I agree that PS3's running Linux will bring Linux more into mainstream.  Or maybe more into center-stage instead of off in the wings, metaphorically.  I'd bet a lot more home users will use their PS3 than those who use Linux on their personal computers.  I'm not saying it's going to be any kind of revolution, it's not.  But this is the kind of thing that Linux was designed for, and what it excels at. 

According to the Wikipedia definition of "mainstream," I still don't think it will bring Linux more into "mainstream."  People won't even be cognizant of what it means to be "running Linux."

It'll be a hard drive with Linux on it, but I doubt you'll be able to utilize many of what's so interesting about Linux (does it come with a keyboard? will you be able to download free software? will you be able to run a window manager?)

No, but it'll have something obscure like 7 USB ports.

[iago]

I agree that PS3's running Linux will bring Linux more into mainstream.  Or maybe more into center-stage instead of off in the wings, metaphorically.  I'd bet a lot more home users will use their PS3 than those who use Linux on their personal computers.  I'm not saying it's going to be any kind of revolution, it's not.  But this is the kind of thing that Linux was designed for, and what it excels at. 

According to the Wikipedia definition of "mainstream," I still don't think it will bring Linux more into "mainstream."  People won't even be cognizant of what it means to be "running Linux."

Yeah, it's hard to properly say what it'll do.  What I'm trying ot say is that it will being Linux into more mainstream usage.  Even though people may not be aware that they're using it, they will be. 

I'm not even sure if that counts, but whatever

[GameSnake]

Look, this is just my arguement, I'm sticking to it and I dont need to call anyone an idiot to feel better about myself..

Are you guys forgetting how powerfull next gen-consoles are becoming? You basically have a computer for the XBOX 360. It's all around media machine: you can play with others, play music and watch videos on the thing: all the things I like to do on my computer, it's there on the console.

These machines are basically computers. I'm willing to bet they're always going to improve on graphics, but to keep up they're going to add more and more features.
Who knows if people will recongize the OS on the PS3 or not, but the fact that they're using Linux alone is a big deal. It's going to be companys like Dell and Sony that are going to bring Linux the big attention, NOT GNU: GNU is nothing compared to these big companys.

[iago]

GNU isn't a company, it's a concept or a policy or even an agreement. 

What you're thinking of is the Free Software Foundation. 

[GameSnake]

GNU isn't a company, it's a concept or a policy or even an agreement. 

What you're thinking of is the Free Software Foundation. 

Ah, ok. That's what I meant then: Sony and Dell can give Linux alot more exposure then FSS, GNU is the reason Linux is free and stuff, right? While FSS is a company that does..? See I know what Sony and Dell do, but not FSS.

[Warrior]

The reason Linux is free is because it doesn't cost money, GNU or not that's how it will be. The only difference would be GPL wouldn't exist but they could just as easily use another license.

[Sidoh]

Look, this is just my arguement, I'm sticking to it and I dont need to call anyone an idiot to feel better about myself..

Great.  We can call you an idiot if we think you are one.  Get over it...

Are you guys forgetting how powerfull next gen-consoles are becoming? You basically have a computer for the XBOX 360. It's all around media machine: you can play with others, play music and watch videos on the thing: all the things I like to do on my computer, it's there on the console.

How does this constitute Linux becoming mainstream?  You need to look up the definition of mainstream.  Sure, it's used by a lot of people, but that doesn't mean that it's hurting Microsoft in any way, shape or form just because it uses Linux.

These machines are basically computers. I'm willing to bet they're always going to improve on graphics, but to keep up they're going to add more and more features.

But they're not going to turn into PC's.  The concept of a console gaming system would be completely defeated if they did.  I really don't think it matters what operating system a gaming console uses, and as long as it does what it's supposed to (play games), there's no reason to.

Who knows if people will recongize the OS on the PS3 or not, but the fact that they're using Linux alone is a big deal.

No it's not.  It's a really safe assumption to say that they're just going to use the Linux core.  I really don't see what's so amazing about that.  You get a PS3 and use it just like you've used any other gaming console.  You expect it to run really well, because that's all its doing.  There are other gaming systems that already do that.  I don't think having Linux installed on any of them is going to change anything.

Why should people care? It's going to be companys like Dell and Sony that are going to bring Linux the big attention, NOT GNU: GNU is nothing compared to these big companys.

But they're not bringing attention to Linux.  They're mentioning that they're shipping with Linux for the 0.3% userbase that's going to care.  It's a marketting scheme.  Since others don't really know what it is, it sounds impressive.  There's very little harm in saying it ships with Linux.  They're not going to make Linux "out class" Microsoft, as you've said.  That's a croc of shit.

Ah, ok. That's what I meant then: Sony and Dell can give Linux alot more exposure then FSS, GNU is the reason Linux is free and stuff, right? While FSS is a company that does..? See I know what Sony and Dell do, but not FSS.

How in the hell is the Free Software Foundation FFS?  It's FSF...

In any case, you're partly right.  If they ship their computers with Linux, it would make Linux a lot more popular.  However, they're not going to do that.  Too many people would be massively confused and likely buy computers from somewhere else.  It'd kill the company.  Sure, if they can make Linux work "behind the scenes" (where its presence requires no extra user interaction), there's no problem in using it over a custom operating system for the console (which all other consoles use).