Building a robot...?

[zorm]

So anyways I've always been curious about robotics and robots and now I have the urge to make one. I want it to be intel based, and probably using wifi as the main communication method. However, there are a vast number of problems related to this and so I was wondering if anyone has done this before or knows anyone who has?

I'm avoiding pre-built kits because they are rather lame and vastly limited in what they can do. Linux on a robot would be far superior to most of these kits. I want to be able to make a NFS on wheels or an autonomous robot and anything inbetween should I so desire.

I've got ~$200 as seed money for this project, but clearly thats not nearly enough. However, will be searching for the best method and deals. Also seed money could double or even quadruple in a few weeks so we shall see.

[deadly7]

I haven't made a robot before, but I have looked it up.  It's going to be a bitch to make, but best of luck to yeh.
Edit:
Zorm, are you going to have it go off of Voice commands or like, are you going to have it respond to you typing commands into a console and sending them to it?
What kind of material are you going to be using?
How big of a robot are you going to make?
What are some of the features that it will have?

just some questions to help get you started.

[Sidoh]

SRSLY DEADLY? (<3)

I don't know how much of this is publically available, but you should check out stuff from the international science fair.  I saw some amazing things there.

[zorm]

I haven't made a robot before, but I have looked it up.  It's going to be a bitch to make, but best of luck to yeh.
Edit:
Zorm, are you going to have it go off of Voice commands or like, are you going to have it respond to you typing commands into a console and sending them to it?
What kind of material are you going to be using?
How big of a robot are you going to make?
What are some of the features that it will have?

just some questions to help get you started.

Definitely not voice commands, main idea for right now is controlling it via the wifi connection. Possibly with something like a joystick to start off and then as the project progresses it can get more advanced. My idea is that I'll be able to start out very simple and work my way up to something more advanced.

I'm not really sure on the material thats going to be used, most likely aluminum and plastic. For now I'm thinking something slightly bigger than your typical RC car, with 6 wheels(3 on each side).

Featurewise, I'm going to say having 6 wheels and possibly a camera to start with. If I can get that far I'll be well off for the future.


Some concerns/idea/questions:
Power is going to be a big deal, the cpu will have to be something with low power consumption. I suspect I'll end up using something like lead-acid batteries for power. However, what should be done about storage for files on the computer? Something like flash media to lessen power consumption?

Wifi, what will get me the best range/bandwidth? Currently I have no wifi in my house so an access point will need to be acquired. Suggestions?

Cost is the other huge concern, I'm thinking that I should be able to raid some local thrift stores for things like motors/parts for the base and what not. Any ideas of specific electronics/appliances I should look at for motors? I also need to check out the black hole and see what it has, I may be able to acquire some goodies from there.

[iago]

I didn't read your second post, but I'll say what I know from my school. 

You might want to look into getting a microcontroller such as an Atmel AVR development board.  I have written small programs for it (it's written in C, interfaces over serial with Linux, Mac, or Windows), and it's fairly easy to program.  I'd recommend similar boards for robotics, I know the main robotics prof at my school uses Atmel.  The board I have was about $120.  You can probably figure out which board is best by checking around robotics websites. 

In terms of control, at my school we use infra-red.  At school, the tiny little controllers on-board our tanks understand approximately 4 commands (speed up/slow down left/right treads) It is cheap and consumes little power.  Another option is just to use a modulated wave, probably in the 2.2 - 2.4ghz range since that's the only legal frequency.  Using standard WiFi is typically wasteful in terms of CPU and power, and it is usually way overkill.  The idea of robotics is to implement exactly what you need, and nothing else. 

In terms of movement, I'd suggest starting with something small, like wheels.  At school, we used a tank with treads.  If you're planning on doing autonomous agents, you're going to need to track down collision sensors or something similar, but I think that's beyond what you're trying to do.  If you want something more complicated, you have to start getting into cervos (servos?  I've never seen it spelled..), which are quite pricy. 

Hopefully that helps a little. 

[Armin]

iago, I'm not sure if it's just not legal in Canada, but there's 802.11.b out as well, which is 5.4 GHz. You'll have a lot less interference because it's not used often, but the range dies if you try controlling it through walls. It also doesn't allow as much data transfer. Zorm, I'd recommend reading this entire article to help you decide what you want.

EDIT: Oops, it's not 802.11.b that's 5.4 GHz, it's something else, but I totally forgot what it was.

EDIT 2: I remember what it was, it's 802.11.a that's in the 5 GHz range.

[zorm]

I didn't read your second post, but I'll say what I know from my school. 

You might want to look into getting a microcontroller such as an Atmel AVR development board.  I have written small programs for it (it's written in C, interfaces over serial with Linux, Mac, or Windows), and it's fairly easy to program.  I'd recommend similar boards for robotics, I know the main robotics prof at my school uses Atmel.  The board I have was about $120.  You can probably figure out which board is best by checking around robotics websites. 

In terms of control, at my school we use infra-red.  At school, the tiny little controllers on-board our tanks understand approximately 4 commands (speed up/slow down left/right treads) It is cheap and consumes little power.  Another option is just to use a modulated wave, probably in the 2.2 - 2.4ghz range since that's the only legal frequency.  Using standard WiFi is typically wasteful in terms of CPU and power, and it is usually way overkill.  The idea of robotics is to implement exactly what you need, and nothing else. 

In terms of movement, I'd suggest starting with something small, like wheels.  At school, we used a tank with treads.  If you're planning on doing autonomous agents, you're going to need to track down collision sensors or something similar, but I think that's beyond what you're trying to do.  If you want something more complicated, you have to start getting into cervos (servos?  I've never seen it spelled..), which are quite pricy. 

Hopefully that helps a little. 

The biggest thing for me is the ability to move into new areas if I so desire which to me means power and overkill for now. I've looked at the Amtels before but it doesn't really seem to me like they'd have enough power to handle something like video processing?

The other advantage of using a x86 based computer is usb support and all the goodies that come along with it. Should I decide I want to add a GPS receiver or such its a matter of buying it and plugging it in vs. having to solder a chip onto a board and wires, etc. I'm sort of in favor of using off the shelf parts because if I end up getting in way over my head they will atleast have ebay value.

Bump sensors and such will be easy enough to get for a start on autonomous work, the only question is how to get these inputs? USB can probably only support so much and theres the issue of I doubt something like bump sensors will come USB ready.

The idea behind using standard wifi is that it will be easy and I'll be able to do things like stream video/other information down for debugging.

For movement I'm definitely started with wheels, but of course if it all works good and is cool I won't rule out wings someday. Its servos btw, and yeah most of the parts needed are way up there in the price range which is why I'm considering improvising on them for now.

[deadly7]

Well, are you thinking of eventually making something like the spycamera used in American Pie: Band Camp? (Basically it was an "RC" Car with a camera attached that sent a constant feed to a computer)

[zorm]

In a way yes, but that isn't the only goal/objective and so as such I don't really want to make use a specific hardware just to accomplish that goal.

[deadly7]

What other goals/objectives do you have?

[Warrior]

I know the ones my school ordered were really basic, used laptops for brains and webcams for eyes. Then everything else was I think special crafted USB hardware and such. It had things like color recognition and shortest path AI. 

[Armin]

The idea behind using standard wifi is that it will be easy and I'll be able to do things like stream video/other information down for debugging.

It's really not that basic at all. You'll most likely need the wireless router and 1 access point in your house, to hopefully cover all of the gray and dead areas. Also, you'll need to find a way to make it so that when the bot loses the connection to one access point, it gains the connection to another, with minimal downtime (hopefully none).

[rabbit]

"Bump sensors" are pretty easy to make.  All you need is a photodetector (http://store.yahoo.com/webtronics/if-e10.html is a cheap one, and pretty good for this sort of thing).  Detection is pretty easy.  if(something_is_there) { move(); }  I'd say stick with simple stuff.  A breadboard is always a good way to go early on (no soldering needed!  And they are pretty cheap).

Aside from that I can't say much right now (too early -.-).

[iago]

The biggest thing for me is the ability to move into new areas if I so desire which to me means power and overkill for now. I've looked at the Amtels before but it doesn't really seem to me like they'd have enough power to handle something like video processing?

The other advantage of using a x86 based computer is usb support and all the goodies that come along with it. Should I decide I want to add a GPS receiver or such its a matter of buying it and plugging it in vs. having to solder a chip onto a board and wires, etc. I'm sort of in favor of using off the shelf parts because if I end up getting in way over my head they will atleast have ebay value.

Bump sensors and such will be easy enough to get for a start on autonomous work, the only question is how to get these inputs? USB can probably only support so much and theres the issue of I doubt something like bump sensors will come USB ready.

The idea behind using standard wifi is that it will be easy and I'll be able to do things like stream video/other information down for debugging.

For movement I'm definitely started with wheels, but of course if it all works good and is cool I won't rule out wings someday. Its servos btw, and yeah most of the parts needed are way up there in the price range which is why I'm considering improvising on them for now.

USB is way overkill.  There's proper ways to do that, but I don't really know tham.  Things like USB, WiFi, and Ethernet are rarely used in microcontroller systems.  They require way too much power and are expensive. 

I don't know much beyond what I said in my last post, though. 

[deadly7]

"Bump sensors" are pretty easy to make.  All you need is a photodetector (http://store.yahoo.com/webtronics/if-e10.html is a cheap one, and pretty good for this sort of thing).  Detection is pretty easy.  if(something_is_there) { move(); }  I'd say stick with simple stuff.  A breadboard is always a good way to go early on (no soldering needed!  And they are pretty cheap).

Aside from that I can't say much right now (too early -.-).

I hate breadboards.