No Aero for pirates

[Warrior]

@Sidoh: It's alright if you can't think outside of the box, I have no idea why Microsoft would need to be "desperate". It currently dominates the market.

If you think disabling constituents of the GUI is innovative, I think you're stupid and close minded.  I don't know why they would need to be desperate either, but it sure as hell seems they're striving at in areas they don't need to be doing so.

I think you're stupid and can't read. It's a marketing scheme to get pirates to want the Vista UI. Humans by nature want what is not immediately given to them. It will spread Vista. Thusly if they use the enhanced Aero they will need higher end cards. See where I'm going? Probably not..

You're giving it off as sucking before trying it deadly, that's what I'm trying to say. Read a few reviews, they've all been good. Some biased but some have been geniuinely good. Maybe if you can try to get ahold of a beta when it arrives (I *think* MS will have an open beta not sure) and run it.
IE7 has been removed from the core code. It is as much an application as anything else now.

I don't know but Vista seems to be doing something right (Some XP bugs don't affect Vista, etc..) which means some code changes are taking place. I could go on and on but I'm tired.

@Newby: You can go ahead maybe in 2030 you'll start using stuff Vista comes out with. Or not. You get what you pay for.
You get a shit desktop OS for no money and a great desktop OS for $300. Same thing with PC hardware, with furniture, with cars, with everything. Face it.

[Sidoh]

I think you're stupid and can't read. It's a marketing scheme to get pirates to want the Vista UI. Humans by nature want what is not immediately given to them. It will spread Vista. Thusly if they use the enhanced Aero they will need higher end cards. See where I'm going? Probably not..

Here we go again.  I don't agree with you; that obviously means I am incapable of reading the material.  Let me tell you something once again, Warrior: regardless of what you may think, you're not always right; subjectivity does exist.  Saying these sorts of things does nothing for you.

Firstly, I will logically retort your argument.  Personally, I don't give a flying fuck what my UI looks like.  I'd much rather have a "free" OS and not pay $300 than otherwise.  Only people who allow somewhat instinctive feelings overcome a sense of logic feel that way about things as insignificant is this.  Sure, some people may want the graphics, but if they're able to function without it, chances are they're not going to care.  This aside, I highly doubt this will last for long.  It will be cracked in no time.  People who are able to obtain pirated copies of Windows probably contain the literacy to understand potential "fixes" for the removal of the graphics.

You get a shit desktop OS for no money and a great desktop OS for $300. Same thing with PC hardware, with furniture, with cars, with everything. Face it.

There is a major difference.  The bytes changed or removed in Vista cost no less money to burn onto a CD than it does if it were present in full.  I do understand your reasoning, but the analogy you provided is incorrect.  The reason furnature and things of this nature become less in price with degraded quality is because of the decreased production cost.

[Warrior]

I think you're stupid and can't read. It's a marketing scheme to get pirates to want the Vista UI. Humans by nature want what is not immediately given to them. It will spread Vista. Thusly if they use the enhanced Aero they will need higher end cards. See where I'm going? Probably not..

Here we go again.  I don't agree with you; that obviously means I am incapable of reading the material.  Let me tell you something once again, Warrior: regardless of what you may think, you're not always right; subjectivity does exist.  Saying these sorts of things does nothing for you.

Well, let's see here you responded with something which had nothing to do with the topic. I don't think that's a bad assumption.

Firstly, I will logically retort your argument.  Personally, I don't give a flying fuck what my UI looks like.  I'd much rather have a "free" OS and not pay $300 than otherwise.  Only people who allow somewhat instinctive feelings overcome a sense of logic feel that way about things as insignificant is this.  Sure, some people may want the graphics, but if they're able to function without it, chances are they're not going to care.  This aside, I highly doubt this will last for long.  It will be cracked in no time.  People who are able to obtain pirated copies of Windows probably contain the literacy to understand potential "fixes" for the removal of the graphics.

There is no doubt it won't be cracked, it's part of their scheme. You have to think of this on a higher level as I've stated before.

You get a shit desktop OS for no money and a great desktop OS for $300. Same thing with PC hardware, with furniture, with cars, with everything. Face it.

There is a major difference.  The bytes changed or removed in Vista cost no less money to burn onto a CD than it does if it were present in full.  I do understand your reasoning, but the analogy you provided is incorrect.  The reason furnature and things of this nature become less in price with degraded quality is because of the decreased production cost.

Well yea maybe it was a little bad, I still think it made my point sufficiently however.

[Newby]

@Newby: You can go ahead maybe in 2030 you'll start using stuff Vista comes out with. Or not. You get what you pay for.
You get a shit desktop OS for no money and a great desktop OS for $300. Same thing with PC hardware, with furniture, with cars, with everything. Face it.

Please elaborate Warrior. I'd like to know why my free OS is a "shit desktop OS" whereas the $300 spent on Windows makes it a "great desktop OS". I've found nothing in Windows that I haven't been able to do in BSD/Linux, and everything I've done in BSD/Linux I've found to be much more clean. I haven't had a webpage loading in Opera on FreeBSD 6.0 lock up my OS like I have in Windows XP w/ SP2 and IE6 on a fresh install.

What exactly has Vista "innovated" (please see the definition of innovation before you start telling me a flashy GUI, user system, etc. stuff that Windows is just improving that BSD/Linux has had for quite some time) that I can't get access to? Outside of their new file system, that is.

Also a question: Why would I want stuff in Vista? What's so great about Vista that hasn't been in XP or BSD/Linux?

[Sidoh]

Well, let's see here you responded with something which had nothing to do with the topic. I don't think that's a bad assumption.

If you want to personally attack me, I can personally defend myself.  Don't expect me not to.  I don't really care if it's related to the topic.  It was a short portion of my post; not the entire thing.

There is no doubt it won't be cracked, it's part of their scheme. You have to think of this on a higher level as I've stated before.

It's not going to be cracked?  How the hell is that possible?  If people can make use of their CD key validation algorithms, I sure as hell think they can figure out how to crack a few graphics.  If you think you're thinking at a higher level by saying that, maybe you ought to take a few steps down into reality.

[Warrior]

Alright this should be fun.

First off let's talk speed. No other OS has previously (As of build 5342) had this sort of speed on this hardware. 768MB of ram runs almost 5x faster (seriously) on Vista. Of course this is only done by sending graphics to the DX pipeline.

Now I would go and talk about how no one else currently does a fully 3D UI like Vista but you seem to want to rule it out so let's move on.

Speech Recognition

Speech Recognition

Speech Recognition in Windows Vista empowers you to interact with your computer by voice. It allows you to significantly limit your use of mouse and keyboard while maintaining or increasing productivity. You can dictate documents and e-mail messages in mainstream applications, fill out forms on the web using voice commands, and seamlessly manage Windows Vista and applications by saying what you see.

Seriously, what other OS does this currently? I doubt any and if they do they probably can't do it on such a wide range of drivers.

Sync Center

Sync Center

The new Windows Vista Sync Center gives you one place where you can manage data synchronization in several scenarios: between multiple PCs, between network servers and PCs, and with the devices you connect to your PC.

Windows Defender

This hands down is just a great program, I've run it and it's helped me out of binds multiple times. It's free by MS and easy to use it also has an option to restore whatever damage was done to IE.

Additionally Vista will work well with any AV/FW since it allows sort of the same protocol they did with Browsers where you chose default one and it has a standard set of system specific features for this.


Windows SideShow


Seriously this technology is amazing, it's mostly aimed torwards laptop users but here is a short description on it:

Windows Vista SideShow technology enables laptop manufacturers to include a secondary or auxiliary display in future laptop designs. This display can be used to easily view the critical information you need, whether the laptop is on, off, or in sleep mode. The convenience provided by these auxiliary displays will save time and battery life by allowing you to quickly view meeting schedules, phone numbers, addresses, and recent e-mail messages without having to start up your laptop.

PlayForSure

Portable music devices that display the PlaysForSure logo will seamlessly connect to your Windows Vista-based PC as soon as you plug them in. There's no need to load any third-party software or drivers.

In other words, you can share your music more easily between portable devices and their management is a snap.

Windows Presentation Foundation

Aside from all this, the strongest factor in Vista is hands down WPF/XAML.

This completely changes how UI design is done and how easy it is to do it. XAML is a markup language to build Interfaces in Vista
which gives the designer more say in how an Application should look withought needing programming as a prior knowledge.
It seperates core coding and display coding which can never be a bad thing.

WPF is simply amazing, it allows you to seamlessly integrate 3D goodness into an application in an easy to use (Really, it's damn easy) API.
The sky's the limit with this stuff.  If you havn't noticed, Microsoft has been more open with their development and seen in some Dev  blogs are XAML and WPF demos which showcase this information. If you're still interested you can look there

XPS -- Printing Made Sexy

Windows Vista™ introduces the XML Paper Specification (formerly code-named "Metro"), or XPS, that describes the set of conventions for using XML and other widely available technologies to describe a container for application data. The Windows XPS Document technologies enable end users to create, annotate, and view fixed-layout paginated documents, as well as to digitally sign and apply rights management to those documents.

This is another thing I liked, the ability to give life to your images when printing them. This thing brings images to life (I've seen a video demo, they can be found at channel9.msdn.com) and allows a faster printing method for them as well. Really, quality and speed can't be beat.

Restart Manager and Data Recovery

With Windows Vista, users won't have to restart their computers for most updates and application installations. Windows Vista knows which applications and services are using which files, and if a file needs to be updated, Windows Vista can coordinate saving the application's data, closing the application or stopping the service, updating the file, and automatically reopening the application or restarting the service. This capability is provided by a feature called Restart Manager.

Restart Manager works with Microsoft Update, Windows Update, Microsoft Windows Server Update Services, Microsoft Software Installer, and Microsoft Systems Management Server to detect processes that have files in use and to gracefully stop and restart services without the need to restart the entire machine. Applications that are written to take advantage of the new Restart Manager features can be restarted and restored to the same state and with the same data as before the restart.

Don't have to restart the OS for updates? Cmon, how much easier can you get.

Power Management

As more and more computers become mobile, users will expect to treat their computers much more like they do personal digital assistant (PDAs) and cell phones today—on battery power for longer and without having to go through lengthy startup and shutdown procedures between sessions. To meet these expectations, the hardware, operating system, and applications must each do their part to help realize extended battery life and fast, reliable system standby and resume transitions.

Powermanagement for Laptops,PDAs, and the like. I mean if you can have the looks and power of Vista and not use up all your battery life..what more can you ask for?

Windows Communication Foundation

The vast majority of applications that are developed today need to communicate with other applications. The ability to share data between a wide network of services that can communicate with other platforms and devices is what Web services are all about. Windows Communication Foundation is Microsoft's unified programming model for building Web service applications with managed code. It extends the .NET Framework to enable developers to build secure, reliable, and transacted Web services that interoperate across platforms and integrate with existing investments. Windows Communication Foundation is built from the ground-up to combine and extend the capabilities of existing Microsoft distributed systems technologies, including Enterprise Services, System.Messaging, .NET Remoting, ASMX, and WSE to deliver a unified development experience.

In a nutshell, it makes it easier to build Networking applications which communicate with each other. This again adds to the already heftly list of good features Vista comes with.


-- I hope that's all you need, I can find more if you'd like. It's really quite fun.

[Warrior]

Well, let's see here you responded with something which had nothing to do with the topic. I don't think that's a bad assumption.

If you want to personally attack me, I can personally defend myself.  Don't expect me not to.  I don't really care if it's related to the topic.  It was a short portion of my post; not the entire thing.

Then it's your fault, not mine. Deal with it and stop crying.

There is no doubt it won't be cracked, it's part of their scheme. You have to think of this on a higher level as I've stated before.

It's not going to be cracked?  How the hell is that possible?  If people can make use of their CD key validation algorithms, I sure as hell think they can figure out how to crack a few graphics.  If you think you're thinking at a higher level by saying that, maybe you ought to take a few steps down into reality.

Err sorry, I meant it will be cracked. And by thinking on a higher level I meant think about the Marketing Scheme (ingenious really) they are doing here. I've stated it before.

[deadly7]

You're giving it off as sucking before trying it deadly, that's what I'm trying to say. Read a few reviews, they've all been good. Some biased but some have been geniuinely good. Maybe if you can try to get ahold of a beta when it arrives (I *think* MS will have an open beta not sure) and run it.
IE7 has been removed from the core code. It is as much an application as anything else now.

I'm not saying it's sucking -- that's the thing.  I'm saying if it doesn't suck.  Microsoft products, in my personal experience, have sucked.  I haven't tried Vista.  I'm not saying "Oh Vista sucks balls" or "Vista rocks your socks."  I'm saying if it doesn't suck, and didn't cost a fourth of the new computer I'm going to build, I might buy it.

I don't know but Vista seems to be doing something right (Some XP bugs don't affect Vista, etc..) which means some code changes are taking place. I could go on and on but I'm tired.

Agreed.  Vista seems to have more security and less idiotic things in mind.  Maybe it will change Microsoft's public image.  Maybe it won't.  Time will tell.

[Newby]

Alright this should be fun.

First off let's talk speed. No other OS has previously (As of build 5342) had this sort of speed on this hardware. 768MB of ram runs almost 5x faster (seriously) on Vista. Of course this is only done by sending graphics to the DX pipeline.

Now I would go and talk about how no one else currently does a fully 3D UI like Vista but you seem to want to rule it out so let's move on.

Speed? 5x faster? I call bullshit. Let's see some statistics or benchmarks.

Speech Recognition: Not a feature I'd personally use. Hell, I hate speech on computers. I can type faster than I can think and talk, and with less errors, too. Impressive though, nontheless.

Sync Center: I personally don't think this is anything new. I've been able to keep my iPod and (when I had one) my PDA up to sync without the addition of some new software. Making it easier and in one location is not an innovation, it's simplifying the already-simple syncronization process.

Windows Defender: You may think it's great, but I asked for innovating features. This is not an innovation, just M$ making a new product. Wait, isn't this M$ AntiSpyware? Didn't they purchase that? Oh yeah, they did. My bad. They didn't even write it from the ground up.

SideShow: I don't personally care to see such "critical" components as e-mail, contacts, battery life, laptop status, etc. Especially if it's gonna require a new display on the laptop. How's that gonna look?

PlayForSure: Not an innovating feature. Not very useful either, I don't need media uploaded RIGHT AWAY. Next.

Windows Presentation Foundation: I actually like this feature. Good job. One of the features you posted doesn't suck and is M$ actually innovating.

XPS: How is faster printing and "bringing pictures to life" (Which I don't understand) innovating? I print just fine. Time is not a problem for me.

And as far as I know, the speed of the printer is the bottleneck when printing.

Restart Manager: I don't restart for most of my updates. Hell, I never have to restart unless I'm patching my kernel. Sorry, not an innovating feature. Next!

Power Management: Really isn't innovating. I've got apm right here. It IS advanced power management, right? This seems to be just another improvement that you claim is innovating. Hah.

Windows Communication Foundation: I don't get it. How does it make communication between networking programs easier? This really makes no sense to me in my mind at all.

So, one innovating feature. Some people won't even agree with that, seeing as how I could hack any open-source desktop environment / window manager and spice it up to my liking myself.

[Sidoh]

Then it's your fault, not mine. Deal with it and stop crying.

Let me ensure what I am gathering from this statement is correct.  You believe that personal attacks are justifiable, but defending those personal attacks are not?

Hypocrit.

Err sorry, I meant it will be cracked. And by thinking on a higher level I meant think about the Marketing Scheme (ingenious really) they are doing here. I've stated it before.

I originally thought so, but seeing as you've made some pretty blind points before, I opted to go with the statements I made regarding your last message on this issue.  It's not ingenious.  It's simplistic and desperate.  They're running out of ideas to stop pirates.  Sure, they could do more, but it's an optimization issue.  If they pour vast amounts of money into anti-piracy techniques, they're going to gain less and less revenue from the people that start to actually purchase the product.

[Warrior]

Then it's your fault, not mine. Deal with it and stop crying.

Let me ensure what I am gathering from this statement is correct.  You believe that personal attacks are justifiable, but defending those personal attacks are not?

Hypocrit.

It wasn't a personal attack, it was a conclusion I came to given your response. If you took offense to it that's not my problem as long as the intention was not as such.

Err sorry, I meant it will be cracked. And by thinking on a higher level I meant think about the Marketing Scheme (ingenious really) they are doing here. I've stated it before.

I originally thought so, but seeing as you've made some pretty blind points before, I opted to go with the statements I made regarding your last message on this issue.  It's not ingenious.  It's simplistic and desperate.  They're running out of ideas to stop pirates.  Sure, they could do more, but it's an optimization issue.  If they pour vast amounts of money into anti-piracy techniques, they're going to gain less and less revenue from the people that start to actually purchase the product.

That's a good point but I don't think it's to stop pirates. They know they can get over it, they figure why not throw another barrel at them and do us some good along the way?

@Newby:

That's not really something you can benchmark, if you care enough obtain and use Vista yourself.

Speech Recognition: It's never been done, it's innovative and it's done pretty well.
Sync Center: No, you manage entire PCs and devices in your network in an easy fashion. This has never been done before. This is innovation
Windows Defender: This IS innovation, nothing before has been built into the kernel as a protection mechanism. It's innovative.
PlayForSure: Has it been done before? No? What? It's innovative. It's usefulness is subjective as Vista isn't made specifically for YOU.
XPS: It offers richer quality images at a faster rate, the bottleneck with printer speeds believe it or not is more on the OS side. That's been handled since the rate at which they can be printed increases. If you want a more technical answer watch the video on Channel9.
Restart Manager: Because YOU don't use it that means it isn't innovative? And you're supposed to have some credibility after this? Please.
Power Management: It's advanced because it builds off of basic power management. It's cleverly done and new. Innovative.
WCF: It's the development platform and it's ease of use. It offers a standard implementation which unifies the development process. Sounds innovative to me.

[Sidoh]

It wasn't a personal attack, it was a conclusion I came to given your response. If you took offense to it that's not my problem as long as the intention was not as such.

Regardless of your "intentions," it was an insult.  You directed a derogatory remark towards me; that's an insult.  I'm not going to just take it.  I choose to defend myself.

That's a good point but I don't think it's to stop pirates. They know they can get over it, they figure why not throw another barrel at them and do us some good along the way?

Because "throwing barrels" costs time and money.

[MyndFyre]

Speed? 5x faster? I call bullshit. Let's see some statistics or benchmarks.

While I tend to agree with you, despite its flaws, Vista runs faster than XPSP2 on both of my computers.  It runs GREAT on my laptop (without glass).

Speech Recognition: Not a feature I'd personally use. Hell, I hate speech on computers. I can type faster than I can think and talk, and with less errors, too. Impressive though, nontheless.

I'm with you on speech recognition, *AND* it's in WinXP with the Language Bar (part of Office and a redistributable package; it came with UT2k4).

Sync Center: I personally don't think this is anything new. I've been able to keep my iPod and (when I had one) my PDA up to sync without the addition of some new software. Making it easier and in one location is not an innovation, it's simplifying the already-simple syncronization process.

If they can make the synchronization process less annoying, like not popping up ActiveSync when I plug in my PDA when it connects, then I'll be impressed.

Windows Defender: You may think it's great, but I asked for innovating features. This is not an innovation, just M$ making a new product. Wait, isn't this M$ AntiSpyware? Didn't they purchase that? Oh yeah, they did. My bad. They didn't even write it from the ground up.

LOL

SideShow: I don't personally care to see such "critical" components as e-mail, contacts, battery life, laptop status, etc. Especially if it's gonna require a new display on the laptop. How's that gonna look?

It's a nifty idea, but is it going to be USB or something?  Yay, something else to drain my laptop battery.

PlayForSure: Not an innovating feature. Not very useful either, I don't need media uploaded RIGHT AWAY. Next.

This is a good idea, whether it's an "innovating feature."  Like USB drives, media devices needed a standard.

Windows Presentation Foundation: I actually like this feature. Good job. One of the features you posted doesn't suck and is M$ actually innovating.

I'm not sold on XAML yet.  I tend to think it's a LOT more complicated than it's worth, and that I can be equally expressive in code, and more concise, and that markup takes longer to render than precompiled (even if it's intermediary code) code.

XPS: How is faster printing and "bringing pictures to life" (Which I don't understand) innovating? I print just fine. Time is not a problem for me.

The nice thing is that it's an open XML-based competitor to PDF.  Finally.

Restart Manager: I don't restart for most of my updates. Hell, I never have to restart unless I'm patching my kernel. Sorry, not an innovating feature. Next!

[00:10] MyndFyre[x86]: [quote from warrior]Don't have to restart the OS for updates? Cmon, how much easier can you get. [/quote]
[00:10] MyndFyre[x86]: He forgets whom he's talking to.  All you nutty people like to watch your kernel recompile.
[00:10] GenoSidoh06: rofl
[00:11] MyndFyre[x86]: it's like "z0mg kernel update I got a boner"
[00:11] MyndFyre[x86]: "compile time OMG I'm coming!"

Power Management: Really isn't innovating. I've got apm right here. It IS advanced power management, right? This seems to be just another improvement that you claim is innovating. Hah.

We'll see.  I don't know how much work any particular OS puts into specific power management for each device.

Windows Communication Foundation: I don't get it. How does it make communication between networking programs easier? This really makes no sense to me in my mind at all.

Yeah, I don't know either.

[Newby]

Speech Recognition: It's never been done, it's innovative and it's done pretty well.
Sync Center: No, you manage entire PCs and devices in your network in an easy fashion. This has never been done before. This is innovation
Windows Defender: This IS innovation, nothing before has been built into the kernel as a protection mechanism. It's innovative.
PlayForSure: Has it been done before? No? What? It's innovative. It's usefulness is subjective as Vista isn't made specifically for YOU.
XPS: It offers richer quality images at a faster rate, the bottleneck with printer speeds believe it or not is more on the OS side. That's been handled since the rate at which they can be printed increases. If you want a more technical answer watch the video on Channel9.
Restart Manager: Because YOU don't use it that means it isn't innovative? And you're supposed to have some credibility after this? Please.
Power Management: It's advanced because it builds off of basic power management. It's cleverly done and new. Innovative.
WCF: It's the development platform and it's ease of use. It offers a standard implementation which unifies the development process. Sounds innovative to me.

Speech Recognition: It's never been done before? I beg to differ. That was the first result after googling "Speech Recognition Programs". Not innovative. Next.
Sync Center: That makes more sense. I guess I'd have to see it to understand it.
Defender: Nothing? I had to build pf into my kernel. You lose. Building something into the kernel is not innovative, especially when it's a security mechanism. It's been done before, Warrior. That is, building security tools into the kernel. Next.
PlayForSure: I *quote* your description now, "Portable music devices that display the PlaysForSure logo will seamlessly connect to your Windows Vista-based PC as soon as you plug them in. There's no need to load any third-party software or drivers." I seamlessly plugged my iPod into my computer and had to install NO drivers. I had to move music onto an MP3 player my mom purchased, and it took no drivers OR software to do it. It seems M$ is just trying to start a new standard, which I guess is a good thing, since I've only found a few things that required no software/drivers.
XPS: If you say so, I guess I will view the video.
Restart Manager: Haha, I love the personal attack, stating nothing I said is valid anymore. All I said is I don't have to reboot for majority of my updates. This software allows you to not reboot for the majority of your updates.. Thus, it has been done before, and is not innovative. Next.
Power Management: I want to see how it's new. Show me exactly what it does that's new (links, please).
WCF: I still don't really understand this, but whatever. I'll give this to them.

[iago]

[00:10] MyndFyre[x86]: [quote from warrior]Don't have to restart the OS for updates? Cmon, how much easier can you get. [ /quote]
[00:10] MyndFyre[x86]: He forgets whom he's talking to.  All you nutty people like to watch your kernel recompile.
[00:10] GenoSidoh06: rofl
[00:11] MyndFyre[x86]: it's like "z0mg kernel update I got a boner"
[00:11] MyndFyre[x86]: "compile time OMG I'm coming!"

I don't think I know anybody like that.  I only upgrade my kernel if I realize that I need a new feature.  Instead of recompiling my current kernel, I upgrade it.