What are some good anti-abortion/abortion points?

[CrAz3D]

Please seperate them in to for/against & back up why each one is valid.

For:
-Spares child a life of living unloved.  If the kid is unloved & is basically unwanted from conception, the kids is more likely than not going to grown up "wrong".
-Woman's right to choose (I don't believe in this, might someone else be able to back it up)?

Against:
-The child has no chance to explore its full potential.  How do you know if the kid is going to become some bum on the street or the next Einstein if you deprive life from them?


Stuff like that.  Any points you might be able to shoot out helps.  Thanks

EDIT:
Don't debate here, this topic is for the purpose of gathering all for/against points.

[iago]

Against: A fetus is a human being, and killing another human is fundamentally wrong. 
For: A fetus is not a human being, and killing a bunch of cells is not wrong

That's the fundamental problem, I think.  Nobody can answer that question. 

[igimo1]

It's wrong to kill babies. It's also wrong to deprive women of their freedom of choice over their own bodies and subject themselves to a painful pregnancy for any reason but the welfare of others. If you take the middle ground of these two, it's to acknowledge that one or both of these injustices happen. Abortion's the greatest debate in history because, either to a religious person, or a secular person, life is nonetheless sacred. You can't redefine life through existential debate because, well, that's denying your own existence and your right to life.

To allow abortion in certain cases and deny it in others is to acknowledge abortion as the slaughter of the innocent and as a woman's right. Then, in the cases where it's denied, you are forcing a woman into having her life changed by an unwanted child for no reason but your bossy own, and when abortion's granted you are killing a human that has done nothing to deserve it.

In the US today, abortion is legal, but when you accidentally terminate a wanted pregnancy through negligent driving it's considered manslaughter. This inconsistency leads to only one conclusion: a fetus is human if and only if its mother wants it. Am I only human because my mother and others continue to love me?

There is no middle ground when you are talking about life; it didn't work for Plato, and it didn't work for Descartes.

[MyndFyre]

You can't redefine life through existential debate because, well, that's denying your own existence and your right to life.

I disagree.  I think an existentialist would say "I'm alive."  I don't think an existentialist makes any claim to a right to be alive, just that he exists.  I don't think that the life of another matters substantively to an existentialist, and it's dubious to me whether an existentialist's own life matters.

[GameSnake]

Against: hitler was born
For: the fact that hitlers mom was talked out of having an abortion

[Sidoh]

Against: hitler was born
For: the fact that hitlers mom was talked out of having an abortion

That doesn't make sense to me. :\

Against - The long-term psychological effects are often negative for the mother; they will often feel guilt for the destruction of a potential life.

[GameSnake]

Against: hitler was born
For: the fact that hitlers mom was talked out of having an abortion

That doesn't make sense to me. :\

Against - The long-term psychological effects are often negative for the mother; they will often feel guilt for the destruction of a potential life.

Ok let me re phrase that: hitler's mom opted out of having an abortion because her doctor talked her out of it.
Just a simple statement really.

[Sidoh]

Just a simple statement really.

How is hitler being born an even informally acceptable argument against abortion?

[Quik]

-Woman's right to choose (I don't believe in this, might someone else be able to back it up)?

Hey, by the way:

When debating this topic, try to be more tactful then this. Now, I realize you may have a girlfriend or whatnot, but you're still pretty much saying you are against women's rights. That's not a far step away from saying women are not equal, which would get you verbally murdered by some organizations.

[igimo1]

Against: hitler was born
For: the fact that hitlers mom was talked out of having an abortion

That doesn't make sense to me. :\

Against - The long-term psychological effects are often negative for the mother; they will often feel guilt for the destruction of a potential life.

Ok let me re phrase that: hitler's mom opted out of having an abortion because her doctor talked her out of it.
Just a simple statement really.

Do you have any credible evidence that this was so? I don't know how far abortion technology advanced to that era, and it smells like bullshit anyway. How can you blame a mother for bringing a charismatic, ambitious, and potentially murderous child into the world? You're disgusting.

[Quik]

Against: hitler was born
For: the fact that hitlers mom was talked out of having an abortion

That doesn't make sense to me. :\

Against - The long-term psychological effects are often negative for the mother; they will often feel guilt for the destruction of a potential life.

Ok let me re phrase that: hitler's mom opted out of having an abortion because her doctor talked her out of it.
Just a simple statement really.

Do you have any credible evidence that this was so? I don't know how far abortion technology advanced to that era, and it smells like bullshit anyway. How can you blame a mother for bringing a charismatic, ambitious, and potentially murderous child into the world? You're disgusting.

I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's inferring that Hitler's views were slightly skewed because he wasn't loved as a child.

Seriously, what the fuck?

[Sidoh]

I still think it's completely immoral to make any sort of judgement regarding the result of the baby.  If you've done studying on genetics, you'll probably have heard the phrase "nature over nurture," meaning that the genetic structure of a human being determines more of their personality than the way they are treated or raised.  It is unarguable that the parenting techniques have inherent impact on the result of the child, but it is wrong to conclude how the child will morph into an adult.

[CrAz3D]

 
Since people can't read....please stop debating.  I'm just trying to collect points so we can address everything at one time.

Also, Quik, I didn't say I was against women's rights, I said I was against "women's right to choose", HUGE difference.

[CrAz3D]

SO far I've collected these points (from here & vL forums)

FOR Abortion:
-Spares child of being unloved/unwanted
-Woman's right to choose
-Fetus can't think/reason/function as we can...it only has potential to become one of 'us'
-It doesn't matter

AGAINST Abortion:
-Child can't fufil potential
-Morality of killing
-Psychological effects of mother



Anyone else have anything they'd like to add before it does go to a debate?

[deadly7]

..We are x86 forums.