Jesus in Canada or just some crazy dude that heals people???

[CrAz3D]

http://www.greatmystery.org/newsletters/van_jfthoi_adam.html

Pretty crazy, watchin the thing on ABC Primetime right now about him healing some Afghanistan Vet that had his head split open with an axe & was supposed to be in a coma forever I believe.

[Joe]

This ought to show you unfaithful kiddies.

[leet_muffin]

...Joe, please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Rasputin His story = much more... interesting, mystical, bizarre, amazing.. and just overall, Russian. Please note: He, in a way, overthrew the Russian Orthodoxy (among the most strict froms of Christianity), but lemme' guess; he was a soldier of Satan?

[Sidoh]

This ought to show you unfaithful kiddies.

Let me clarify: you think this man is proof that Christianity is true?  You do realize that almost every other religion could benefit from claiming that one man can heal physical ailments of another, right?  I skimmed through the article (including a Ctrl + F) and was unable to find the word "Christian" in there anywhere.

I find it amusing that you are claiming false idols are advocates for Christianity.

[rabbit]

So maybe Jews were right and Jesus was a fraud!

[iago]

I find it amusing that you are claiming false idols are advocates for Christianity.

Haha, that's exactly what I was going to say.  This guy is more likely proof AGAINST Christianity. 

[CrAz3D]

I find it amusing that you are claiming false idols are advocates for Christianity.

Haha, that's exactly what I was going to say.  This guy is more likely proof AGAINST Christianity. 

mmmmmm, I wouldnt say that, I'd just say that he (if its true) is proof of people having "powers"

[iago]

I find it amusing that you are claiming false idols are advocates for Christianity.

Haha, that's exactly what I was going to say.  This guy is more likely proof AGAINST Christianity. 

mmmmmm, I wouldnt say that, I'd just say that he (if its true) is proof of people having "powers"

Christianity says that people DON'T have powers, God does.  Jesus had powers because he was the son of God.  If some other fellow has them, then he's either:
a) Son of God
b) Son of Satan (anti-christ, anybody?)
c) Proof against christianity
d) A fraud

I tend towards (d). 

[CrAz3D]

uhm, in that case, I guess it is proof of God.  (if you want to limit it to those choices)

I dont think Jesus said he was Christian, just that he was the Son of God...Jesus was a Jew

[MyndFyre]

Christianity says that people DON'T have powers, God does.  Jesus had powers because he was the son of God.  If some other fellow has them, then he's either:

Uhh, no.  Reference: 1 Corinthians 12.

[iago]

uhm, in that case, I guess it is proof of God.  (if you want to limit it to those choices)

I dont think Jesus said he was Christian, just that he was the Son of God...Jesus was a Jew

It's not necessary for Jesus to be Christian to be the son of God.  But aren't all Christian religions based on Jesus?

Christianity says that people DON'T have powers, God does.  Jesus had powers because he was the son of God.  If some other fellow has them, then he's either:

Uhh, no.  Reference: 1 Corinthians 12.

Hmm, that's interesting.  However, it seems to me that when that says "healing powers", could it not be referring to doctors?  I would find it strange if that's actually saying that God arbitrarily grants people supernatural powers (miraculous powers are fine, since they aren't necessarily supernatural).

[CrAz3D]

uhm, in that case, I guess it is proof of God.  (if you want to limit it to those choices)

I dont think Jesus said he was Christian, just that he was the Son of God...Jesus was a Jew

It's not necessary for Jesus to be Christian to be the son of God.  But aren't all Christian religions based on Jesus?

Christianity says that people DON'T have powers, God does.  Jesus had powers because he was the son of God.  If some other fellow has them, then he's either:

Uhh, no.  Reference: 1 Corinthians 12.

Hmm, that's interesting.  However, it seems to me that when that says "healing powers", could it not be referring to doctors?  I would find it strange if that's actually saying that God arbitrarily grants people supernatural powers (miraculous powers are fine, since they aren't necessarily supernatural).

why cant healing be miraculous?

[iago]

Healing can be miraculous. 

But I don't think it can be supernatural, keeping with religion as I understand it. 

[CrAz3D]

Healing can be miraculous. 

But I don't think it can be supernatural, keeping with religion as I understand it. 

If healing can be miraculous & God grants miraculous powers then maybe this guy is like a real prophet

[Rule]

It's probably best to wait on more substantial proof of his powers, rather than assuming he has these powers and debating about their possible impact on various religions.  This is of course, not new at all.  How many people have claimed to have super-natural powers, with success stories to back up their claims?

[CrAz3D]

It's probably best to wait on more substantial proof of his powers, rather than assuming he has these powers and debating about their possible impact on various religions.  This is of course, not new at all.  How many people have claimed to have super-natural powers, with success stories to back up their claims?

thousands

[iago]

It's probably best to wait on more substantial proof of his powers, rather than assuming he has these powers and debating about their possible impact on various religions.  This is of course, not new at all.  How many people have claimed to have super-natural powers, with success stories to back up their claims?

Well, I didn't read the article, nor do I know anything about the guy.  But it's still interesting to discuss what supernatural powers could mean. 

[rabbit]

X-Men is real!!  DUN DUN DUN!!!

[Kaleeko]

My opinion:

Strange things happen all the time. A lot of these things, we can't explain. Some things are faked, and some things really do happen, and we don't know why. And it's absolutely useless trying to explain  how when we don't have the capacity to formulate such answers. At least, not right now, and probably not in the near future. There's going to be people trying to explain all the occurences on the planet, no one can stop them, I certainly won't try. But I won't join them. (At least, not the very extraordinary "miracles" that happen.)

[Sidoh]

I'm pretty sure I can explain events like this: remarkable coincidence.

[CrAz3D]

I'm pretty sure I can explain events like this: remarkable coincidence.

but how can you explain multiple remarkable coincidences?
he can "read their aura" & see what is wrong with people...but he doesnt always see everything wrong with them

[iago]

So can Criss Angel and David Blaine, but they don't claim any super-natural powers.  They're just extremely good at reading people's faces, and extremely charismatic. 

[Sidoh]

but how can you explain multiple remarkable coincidences?

You manage each of them individually.  They're bound to fail at point point or another.

It's fully possible for someone to walk strait through a wall.  I think it's much less remarkable that someone is 'cured' of some disease by 'someone touching them,' or something to that effect.

I think most of this stuff is like the placebo effect.  People think they've been cured, so their attitude is much more positive regarding their health.  They'll probably start doing more normal things, which is good for recovery.

he can "read their aura" & see what is wrong with people...but he doesnt always see everything wrong with them

In my opinion, he's absolutely full of shit.  But hey... you can believe this garbage all you want.

[CrAz3D]

but how can you explain multiple remarkable coincidences?

You manage each of them individually.  They're bound to fail at point point or another.

It's fully possible for someone to walk strait through a wall.  I think it's much less remarkable that someone is 'cured' of some disease by 'someone touching them,' or something to that effect.

I think most of this stuff is like the placebo effect.  People think they've been cured, so their attitude is much more positive regarding their health.  They'll probably start doing more normal things, which is good for recovery.

he can "read their aura" & see what is wrong with people...but he doesnt always see everything wrong with them

In my opinion, he's absolutely full of shit.  But hey... you can believe this garbage all you want.

I'm way skeptical & non-believing too, I'm just arguing "why cant he be fo reals"

[AntiVirus]

It's probably best to wait on more substantial proof of his powers, rather than assuming he has these powers and debating about their possible impact on various religions.  This is of course, not new at all.  How many people have claimed to have super-natural powers, with success stories to back up their claims?

QFT

I'd wait before jumping on the bandwagon.

[Sidoh]

I'm way skeptical & non-believing too, I'm just arguing "why cant he be fo reals"

Because it defies thet laws of known physics.  People don't have mystical forces irradiating from their hands that kills cancerous cells.

[CrAz3D]

I'm way skeptical & non-believing too, I'm just arguing "why cant he be fo reals"

Because it defies thet laws of known physics.  People don't have mystical forces irradiating from their hands that kills cancerous cells.

which would mean that (if he really does heal people) he has "powers" from God or he himself is God or whatever

[iago]

I'm way skeptical & non-believing too, I'm just arguing "why cant he be fo reals"

Because it defies thet laws of known physics.  People don't have mystical forces irradiating from their hands that kills cancerous cells.

which would mean that (if he really does heal people) he has "powers" from God or he himself is God or whatever

Or he's a phoney. 

There's a $1,000,000 reward for anybody who can prove, beyond reasonable doubt (in a scientific, observable environment), that he has supernatual powers.  Nobody has claimed that reward for a reason. 

[d&q]

J'aime les petits garcons.

Unless we meet him and see proof with our own eyes, I don't think there is any definite answer. Our answer ties directly into our belief(or not) in God and his supernatural cool ways.

J'aime tuer et manger les enfants innocents. Je les leurre secretement dans ma taniere et je dechire hors leurs intenstines tandis qu'ils sont vivants. Je cuis les restes de ma evisceration sanglante, et puis je bronze la carcasse de decomposition.

[Rule]

J'aime les petits garcons.

Unless we meet him and see proof with our own eyes, I don't think there is any definite answer. Our answer ties directly into our belief(or not) in God and his supernatural cool ways.

J'aime tuer et manger les enfants innocents. Je les leurre secretement dans ma taniere et je dechire hors leurs intenstines tandis qu'ils sont vivants. Je cuis les restes de ma evisceration sanglante, et puis je bronze la carcasse de decomposition.

So, the punchline is that when you speak or think in French you turn into a homosexual pedophile and cannibal?

[Joe]

I'm way skeptical & non-believing too, I'm just arguing "why cant he be fo reals"

Because it defies thet laws of known physics.  People don't have mystical forces irradiating from their hands that kills cancerous cells.

You're a Christian, right?

[rabbit]

Joe, all that says is that some woman went through menopause and it happened to stop when she touched Jesus' robes (again a coincidence).

[Joe]

That was a bad example. These are better.

EDIT -
Also, as far as defying the laws of physics, do you believe that Peter and Jesus were able to walk on water?

[leet_muffin]

Ive walked on water before. It doesnt require much when its frozen over.

[MyndFyre]

Ive walked on water before. It doesnt require much when its frozen over.

That's walking on ice.  I don't think the boat would have been able to make it very far if there was ice.

[d&q]

So, the punchline is that when you speak or think in French you turn into a homosexual pedophile and cannibal?

Basically.

[Sidoh]

Also, as far as defying the laws of physics, do you believe that Peter and Jesus were able to walk on water?

This man isn't Jesus, he doesn't support Jesus and he's not the spawn of Jesus.

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

[CrAz3D]

Also, as far as defying the laws of physics, do you believe that Peter and Jesus were able to walk on water?

This man isn't Jesus, he doesn't support Jesus and he's not the spawn of Jesus.

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

maybe he is the son of another god of another religion

[Blaze]

So, the punchline is that when you speak or think in French you turn into a homosexual pedophile and cannibal?

Basically.

While I was reading this I was thinking "What the hell is this man talking about?  This has less to do with the topic then any other x86 post.".

[Joe]

Also, as far as defying the laws of physics, do you believe that Peter and Jesus were able to walk on water?

This man isn't Jesus, he doesn't support Jesus and he's not the spawn of Jesus.

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

If he's not a Christian then I quickly rest my case that the healing came from God.

[Sidoh]

If he's not a Christian then I quickly rest my case that the healing came from God.

You're like.. a noob Christian, aren't you?

Search for verses on false prophets.

[Joe]

L2reed nub. <3

I was saying that if he was a Christian he'd be given the gift of healing through prayer.

[rabbit]

And if he wasn't a Christian, why the hell would God choose him as a vessel for healing?  Your religion sucks.

[leet_muffin]

And if he wasn't a Christian, why the hell would God choose him as a vessel for healing?  Your religion sucks.

Joe = Crushed.

[Sidoh]

L2reed nub. <3

I was saying that if he was a Christian he'd be given the gift of healing through prayer.

Take your own advice.  I didn't see anything in the original article about him being Christian... guess what that means?

[Joe]

And if he wasn't a Christian, why the hell would God choose him as a vessel for healing?  Your religion sucks.

Exactly why I rest my point.

Take your own advice.  I didn't see anything in the original article about him being Christian... guess what that means?

That I didn't read the article.

[leet_muffin]

Take your own advice.  I didn't see anything in the original article about him being Christian... guess what that means?

That I didn't read the article.

Which leads to the next question: Have you read the Bible?

[Sidoh]

That I didn't read the article.

Then don't go claiming he's some advocate for Christianity... that is asinine in nearly every possible way.

[Joe]

I was simply saying that the laws of physics can be broken and that healing isn't always a placebo.

[d&q]

Omfg! The laws can never be broken! That's why they're laws! If supernatural occurences have actually happened, I would think it would work in some way as to not destroy the Laws as we know it.

[iago]

I was simply saying that the laws of physics can be broken and that healing isn't always a placebo.

If the laws of physics can't be broken, then how does God perform miracles?  God and Physics don't quite get along. 

[rabbit]

A la Intelligent Design.  We don't understand everything in the universe, Joe.  It's possible that God is just a being on a higher plane of existence (ie: an 8th dimensional life form), which would allow it to do things that 3rd dimensional life forms (ie: us) would interpret as "miraculous", because we can't really experience 8 physical dimensions.

So, my point is, he is not a prophet.  He is not an 8th dimensional being.  He is a person.  It's coincidence.  What I'm saying is that we don't know how the universe works, so it doesn't really matter.

[Sidoh]

I was simply saying that the laws of physics can be broken and that healing isn't always a placebo.

I think that God controls the Universe in ways possible through destiny.  He doesn't reach his hand in and break the laws of Physics.  When he set the Universe in motion, he made every last, inconceivable event destined to happen.

Omfg! The laws can never be broken! That's why they're laws! If supernatural occurences have actually happened, I would think it would work in some way as to not destroy the Laws as we know it.

Hehe, that's why I believe in what I've posted above.

So, my point is, he is not a prophet.  He is not an 8th dimensional being.  He is a person.  It's coincidence.  What I'm saying is that we don't know how the universe works, so it doesn't really matter.

You shouldn't make such objective statements about such subjective issues.

[rabbit]

Give me evidence he is anything more than human.

[Sidoh]

Give me evidence he is anything more than human.

Give me evidence that he is anything less than the son of God.

[iago]

Give me evidence he is anything more than human.

Give me evidence that he is anything less than the son of God.

The base assumption would be that he's a human, just like his parents are human and everybody else is human.  If you want to assert that he has any super-natural powers, then the burden of proof is on you. 

Plus, it's impossible to prove that somebody doesn't have supernatural powers.  Can you prove that I can't shoot lightening out of my ass?

[Sidoh]

The base assumption would be that he's a human, just like his parents are human and everybody else is human.  If you want to assert that he has any super-natural powers, then the burden of proof is on you. 

The "base assumption" is subjective.  I don't have to adopt such logic.

Plus, it's impossible to prove that somebody doesn't have supernatural powers.  Can you prove that I can't shoot lightening out of my ass?

HAHAHAHA.

It's also impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the mirracles Jesus performed where factual.  Faith closes that gap.

[iago]

It's possible to prove that somebody has supernatural powers, though. 

If there's no proof that Jesus did, and you believe it without evidence, then that's blind faith, not faith.  You can't believe something solely because it's written down, it also has to make sense and be logical.

[Sidoh]

It's possible to prove that somebody has supernatural powers, though. 

Not from word of mouth and ancient scrolls saying he did.

If there's no proof that Jesus did, and you believe it without evidence, then that's blind faith, not faith.  You can't believe something solely because it's written down, it also has to make sense and be logical.

There's also no proof that he didn't.  Faith is defined as believing in something that has little or no logical reason.  I'm unaware of any other sort of faith for this subject.  I believe in it because I have faith that what the Bible is composed of is factual, not because I've logically concluded that it is factual.

[Tuberload]

Christianity says that people DON'T have powers, God does.  Jesus had powers because he was the son of God.  If some other fellow has them, then he's either:
a) Son of God
b) Son of Satan (anti-christ, anybody?)
c) Proof against christianity
d) A fraud

I tend towards (d). 

Christianity does state that people are given divine talents and abilities (this could be translated into powers). Some of our talents are without repentance [meaning that we do not have to change our ways and come to Christ], and others are given to us by the authority of Christ our Lord and the Father. Prophetic abilities, the ability to pray for ones healing [God ultimately heals the person in the end, but at the request of an authorized believer], divine visions, my new found understanding and knowledge of the word [whether you choose to believe it or not] could all be considered powers. Some of us are here to set the way for the coming of the Lord, others to mislead and steal from the Lord.

There are also false prophets, and antichrist, which will perform miracles on behalf of the Evil one. Satan is in control of this world, and he knows that half truths are more powerful than full blown lies, so it only makes sense that he would heal people in an attempt to lead people away from the Lord.

The prophecies however have not been fulfilled, and when the Lord returns to this world you will know it. May God have mercy on our souls?

[Tuberload]

If any of you feel up to it, go to this man and ask him he he believes in Jesus Christ, does he believe that he is our Lord, and does he believe that he is coming back. If he does then he is from God, and if he does not than he is not.

[Tuberload]

I was simply saying that the laws of physics can be broken and that healing isn't always a placebo.

If the laws of physics can't be broken, then how does God perform miracles?  God and Physics don't quite get along. 

God created this world and all the rules that apply to it, so it only makes sense that he alone has the power to break those rules if he should so choose, doesn't it?

[Sidoh]

God created this world and all the rules that apply to it, so it only makes sense that he alone has the power to break those rules if he should so choose, doesn't it?

Yes, but I don't really believe that he ever chooses to do so, especially after the ascension of Christ.

[rabbit]

It's possible to prove that somebody has supernatural powers, though. 

Not from word of mouth and ancient scrolls saying he did.

According to the Jews, Jesus was a master of propaganda turning mortals away from the righteous path.  It's all dependent on who's ancient scrolls and word of mouth you choose to follow.

[AntiVirus]

It's possible to prove that somebody has supernatural powers, though. 

Not from word of mouth and ancient scrolls saying he did.

According to the Jews, Jesus was a master of propaganda turning mortals away from the righteous path.  It's all dependent on who's ancient scrolls and word of mouth you choose to follow.

I'd have to say that they have been pretty well punished for that, too.

[CrAz3D]

I'd have to say that they have been pretty well punished for that, too.

always comes back to bite you in the ass...oye

[Sidoh]

According to the Jews, Jesus was a master of propaganda turning mortals away from the righteous path.  It's all dependent on who's ancient scrolls and word of mouth you choose to follow.

That is no sort of proof.

[leet_muffin]

I'd have to say that they have been pretty well punished for that, too.

always comes back to bite you in the ass...oye

Hahahah. Thats hilarious.

[AntiVirus]

I'd have to say that they have been pretty well punished for that, too.

always comes back to bite you in the ass...oye

Hahahah. Thats hilarious.

Hilariously true.

[Except it isn't all that funny.]

[iago]

I'm way skeptical & non-believing too, I'm just arguing "why cant he be fo reals"

Because it defies thet laws of known physics.  People don't have mystical forces irradiating from their hands that kills cancerous cells.

which would mean that (if he really does heal people) he has "powers" from God or he himself is God or whatever

Or he's a phoney. 

There's a $1,000,000 reward for anybody who can prove, beyond reasonable doubt (in a scientific, observable environment), that he has supernatual powers.  Nobody has claimed that reward for a reason. 

I dug up the link: http://randi.org/research/index.html

As yet, nobody has claimed the $1,000,000.  Nobody has even passed the preliminary application..

[leet_muffin]

I dug up the link: http://randi.org/research/index.html

As yet, nobody has claimed the $1,000,000.  Nobody has even passed the preliminary application..

Remember that one movie... Men in Black. With the little memory eraser stick things.. He obviously has one of those.

[AntiVirus]

I dug up the link: http://randi.org/research/index.html

As yet, nobody has claimed the $1,000,000.  Nobody has even passed the preliminary application..

Remember that one movie... Men in Black. With the little memory eraser stick things.. He obviously has one of those.

That has got to be it!!!  That's the only logical explination!

[warz]

Can you prove that I can't shoot lightening out of my ass?

It may feel like it after all those penises you take up it.

[Camel]

This thread is 3 years old?

[Joe]

At least he quoted the best post ever.

[iago]

Yeah, the post where I used a valid but incorrect spelling of "lightning". Way to dredge up the past mistakes!