I am just curious

[Tuberload]

Who here actually believes in God?

I am not necessarily trying to spark a 'debate', but if any of you feel compelled, feel free to post whatever may be coming to mind.

[CrAz3D]

why not make a poll?

(Yes)

[Kaleeko]

I'm pretty agnostic, but I'm more or less convinced there is something out there. I just refuse to put a name on it. I'm only 17. I've got a lot more time to spend on the planet figuring out what exactly I believe. I'm not in a hurry to settle my beliefs. It might create a more sound faith if I did, but people that are very set in their religions do tend to not be very open to other religious beliefs. (Tend meaning it is a stereotype, there certainly are people out there that are religious and aren't "crude" to people who believe something else.)

But, yes. I believe in God. Just not in any firm set beliefs pertaining to the idea of God.

[MyndFyre]

Yes

[skip]

Yes.

[Sidoh]

Yes.

[Tuberload]

I'm pretty agnostic, but I'm more or less convinced there is something out there. I just refuse to put a name on it. I'm only 17. I've got a lot more time to spend on the planet figuring out what exactly I believe. I'm not in a hurry to settle my beliefs. It might create a more sound faith if I did, but people that are very set in their religions do tend to not be very open to other religious beliefs. (Tend meaning it is a stereotype, there certainly are people out there that are religious and aren't "crude" to people who believe something else.)

But, yes. I believe in God. Just not in any firm set beliefs pertaining to the idea of God.

That is good that you at least believe in something, because it means that you are probably destined to experience "spiritual awakening" sometime in your life on this planet. Please keep in mind that it does not necessarily mean that you will conform to a specific religion (such as: Catholicism or Buddhism) but you will have very firm beliefs. This will also lead to your overall happiness, and well-being. I hope that God will someday open your eyes to that which is really him.

[ZeroX]

I personally feel that there MIGHT be a higher power out there. But until he makes himself known, I will just stick to that when I die I will come back as a tampon.

[dark_drake]

Yes.

[leet_muffin]

I'm pretty agnostic, but I'm more or less convinced there is something out there. I just refuse to put a name on it. I'm only 17. I've got a lot more time to spend on the planet figuring out what exactly I believe. I'm not in a hurry to settle my beliefs. It might create a more sound faith if I did, but people that are very set in their religions do tend to not be very open to other religious beliefs. (Tend meaning it is a stereotype, there certainly are people out there that are religious and aren't "crude" to people who believe something else.)

But, yes. I believe in God. Just not in any firm set beliefs pertaining to the idea of God.

I, for the most part, agree. However, I do not necessarily believe in a god. Yes, lowercase 'g', that is how I feel about it. I do believe there maybe some ruling creature, or something similar, but the existance of a solitary being, given powers to do what he wishes... no. Or even most anything similar, no.

[wires]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

[Joe]

I personally feel that there MIGHT be a higher power out there. But until he makes himself known, I will just stick to that when I die I will come back as a tampon.

I think when someone came, raised people from the dead, cured the people with terminal illnesses, and when killed for it raised Himself from the dead and forgave us for killing him was pretty obvious that He was making himself known, but to each his own beliefs.

Yes.

[Sidoh]

I, for the most part, agree. However, I do not necessarily believe in a god. Yes, lowercase 'g', that is how I feel about it. I do believe there maybe some ruling creature, or something similar, but the existance of a solitary being, given powers to do what he wishes... no. Or even most anything similar, no.

It is illiterate to decapitalize the name or reference of a diety.

[leet_muffin]

It is illiterate to decapitalize the name or reference of a diety.

I think when someone came, raised people from the dead, cured the people with terminal illnesses, and when killed for it raised Himself from the dead and forgave us for killing him was pretty obvious that He was making himself known, but to each his own beliefs.

Yes.

...Joe... You didn't capitalize himself 2nd time around.. [REMOVED] heathen.


Sidoh: I see it not as a reference to a specific deity.

[Reminder: please refrain from using profanity in this discussion or you will be removed from it entirely. -Tuberload]

[Blaze]

Crappy topic title, but No.

I believe in the possiblity of being a god, I just don't believe in one specificly.  I sure hope I phrased that right, or I'm going to get semi-flamed.  =-o

[iago]

Sort of. 

I don't beleive in any sort of God that you'd get in a religious sense, but I do think that there is more to the Universe than physical substance. 

[Sidoh]

Sidoh: I see it not as a reference to a specific deity.

It is a reference to a diety.  In this particular topic, we're discussing God: an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent being.  That is a diety.  I don't care if you don't believe in Him; we are discussing a diety.

[Joe]

No it's not. A god is as much as a proper noun as man is. "God", with a capital g, refers to the Christian god (most of the time).

Example of non-proper noun:
The head of the Christian church is a god.

Example of proper noun:
Jesus is God.

[leet_muffin]

No it's not. A god is as much as a proper noun as man is. "God", with a capital g, refers to the Christian god (most of the time).

Example of non-proper noun:
The head of the Christian church is a god.

Example of proper noun:
Jesus is God.

Or any specific god of any specific religion. I did not specify either.

[MyndFyre]

No it's not. A god is as much as a proper noun as man is. "God", with a capital g, refers to the Christian god (most of the time).

Example of non-proper noun:
The head of the Christian church is a god.

Example of proper noun:
Jesus is God.

God is capitalized in the same ways that "mom" and "dad" are capitalized.  When you are addressing them or referring to a specific deity, it is appropriate to capitalize.

"My god is Vishnu."
"Vishnu, my God...."

[Sidoh]

Sorry, my mistake.  I don't know what I was thinking.

Or any specific god of any specific religion. I did not specify either.

It doesn't matter, though.  It's evident that we're talking about a specific god.

Who here actually believes in God?

Tuberload didn't say 'a god,' he said "God," indicating that he is refering to a speicifc deity.  Judging from reading a few of Tuberloads posts and knowing that Christian deity is generally referred to as "God," I quickly concluded he was speaking of the Christian god.

I suppose you could retract and say you were making an incidental statement, but I don't think it much matters.  We're not talking about 'a god,' we're talking about "God." ;P

[ZeroX]

I personally feel that there MIGHT be a higher power out there. But until he makes himself known, I will just stick to that when I die I will come back as a tampon.

I think when someone came, raised people from the dead, cured the people with terminal illnesses, and when killed for it raised Himself from the dead and forgave us for killing him was pretty obvious that He was making himself known, but to each his own beliefs.

Yes.

There is no physical proof that Jesus Christ was a person walking on this earth. I belive that he was a person and probally was a great man but, the stuff the bible says you just got take into heart is mostly a fanasty. He turned water into wine? I mean that is the pun of every joke out there.

[Joe]

The way I believe it, the letters, gospels and prophecies(sp?) of the New Testament are all completely true. The Torah (books of Moses), and the prophecies of Isaiah are true. As for the rest, I don't know if it's history recorded or stories of how to follow God in certain situations.

Also, there is physical proof that someone was branded with a crown of thorns and crucified in the Shroud of Turin. Decide for yourself if it was Jesus or not, but all the facts (except carbon dating his body, but that ascended into heaven and disapeared) fall into place.

[iago]

Also, there is physical proof that someone was branded with a crown of thorns and crucified in the Shroud of Turin. Decide for yourself if it was Jesus or not, but all the facts (except carbon dating his body, but that ascended into heaven and disapeared) fall into place.

There is physical proof that lots of people (tens of thousands?  More?) were given the crown of thorns and crucified, then buried in a shroud (you aren't crucified in a shroud, and there's no way to identify a shroud as the "Shroud of Turin".  But big deal, the Romans crucified slaves that tried to escape, and theives, and just about everybody else who pissed them off. 

Interestingly: the Romans did NOT crucify (or even hate) people from most other religions.  If you wanted to worship your own god or God, that was fine.  The only reason they eventually started hating Christians is because Christians were running around declaring that their God was better and Rome's gods suck and everybody else was wrong.  The Romans took exception to their intolerance.  But in general, Romans loved other religions. 

And incidentally, if Jesus was destined for heaven, and his body disappeared as a result, why don't ordinary people who go to heaven have their bodies disappeared?  That doesn't seem to make sense to me.

[rabbit]

Joe, several letters have conflicting stories about Jesus' crucifiction, so they can't all be true, which means that some of them are false, which makes me doubt all of them.  Also, were you there?  There is no proof anything in the Bible is true or false.

And yes, the Romans loved everyone in their empire until the Christians came.  When the Christians came, they said "you suck" so the Romans killed them.

Anyway, I'm agnostic.

And when did Tubey turn into a fortune cookie oO?

[iago]

"You will face challenges today"

I fully believe that there was a guy named Jesus, and he probably did some good stuff.  Then he was crucified, I wouldn't doubt that, the Romans were way into crucifiction.  Besides that, I doubt much happened. 

[Tuberload]

I personally feel that there MIGHT be a higher power out there. But until he makes himself known, I will just stick to that when I die I will come back as a tampon.

Unfortunately without complete faith in that which you do not see, when he comes back it will be to late.

[Tuberload]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

[Tuberload]

Crappy topic title, but No.

I believe in the possiblity of being a god, I just don't believe in one specificly.  I sure hope I phrased that right, or I'm going to get semi-flamed.  =-o

As a matter of opinion, I think the topic served its purpose well. Curiosity is one of the fundamental behaviors of the flesh and it has allowed this conversation to take place without preemptive thoughts forming in your minds before you even read what it is that I have to say.

I personally will do my best to keep all flames from entering this topic. I also hope that someday God will open your eyes to that which is him.

[Tuberload]

There is physical proof that lots of people (tens of thousands?  More?) were given the crown of thorns and crucified, then buried in a shroud (you aren't crucified in a shroud, and there's no way to identify a shroud as the "Shroud of Turin".  But big deal, the Romans crucified slaves that tried to escape, and theives, and just about everybody else who pissed them off.

This was at the time, the worst, punishment one could receive for his crimes. Christ, the son of God and man, walked blamelessly in the eyes of God. He walked in righteousness, and did everything that was asked of him. He also died for our sins, in the worst way imaginable, even though he did nothing to deserve such a fate. The point is that he suffered for our sins, and all who believe in him shall be forgiven of their sins. We are no longer bound to the laws of the Old Testament, but we have entered into a new covenant with Christ.

Interestingly: the Romans did NOT crucify (or even hate) people from most other religions.  If you wanted to worship your own god or God, that was fine.  The only reason they eventually started hating Christians is because Christians were running around declaring that their God was better and Rome's gods suck and everybody else was wrong.  The Romans took exception to their intolerance.  But in general, Romans loved other religions.

And this promotes good or evil? We were all given free will, and we all (good and evil) have a role to play in this world. Christianity at its fundamental doctrines state that we are to love everyone as ourselves, believe and love the one true God, and be lowly and meek people. We are not to boast, so I do not think our ancestors went around stating that our God is the best and the rest suck. They simply went around and taught what was given to them by divine inspiration, and God did the rest. You are either meant to see Him for what he is or you are not.

And incidentally, if Jesus was destined for heaven, and his body disappeared as a result, why don't ordinary people who go to heaven have their bodies disappeared?  That doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Human bodies do not disappear because the Day of Judgment has not arrived. When Christ was raised from the dead, people from the ancient world were raised and they entered Heaven. We on the other hand have not reached our divine appointment, and thus our bodies remain in this world.

[Tuberload]

Joe, several letters have conflicting stories about Jesus' crucifiction, so they can't all be true, which means that some of them are false, which makes me doubt all of them.  Also, were you there?  There is no proof anything in the Bible is true or false.

And yes, the Romans loved everyone in their empire until the Christians came.  When the Christians came, they said "you suck" so the Romans killed them.

Anyway, I'm agnostic.

And when did Tubey turn into a fortune cookie oO?

No the four Gospels (Mathew, Mark, Luke, John) present in the Bible all tell of the events and promises surrounding the life and death of Jesus from a different perspective. Mathew was mainly directed towards the Jews, Mark talked about Jesus’ Ministry, Luke was an exact historical reference, and off the top of my head I cannot remember exactly what John relates to but if there is interest I could look it up.

As many of you know, I was at one time, one of the most confrontational and negative minds present in this community. I have only come to accept Christ as my savior about two months ago. With that being said you can take my new outlook and attitude towards life as you will. You will either see it for that which it really is or you will continue to be blind towards the subject. This was all meant to be, and I just pray that you are all able to see the truth someday.

[iago]

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

That's a good thing to hear. 

I have already stated that I don't believe in the Christian god.  In my life, that is non-negotiable.  But keep it in mind. 

I love Christianity, as a religion.  It teaches goodness and forgiveness and love of the fellow man.  Then 10 commandments are great, and something that everybody ought to live life by.  In that respect, I think that Christianity is great for the community and world as a whole, and that it does a lot of good in the world, even thought I don't believe in it. 

Catholicism, on the other hand, I take great exception to.  Catholicism takes stories from the bible and interprets them in the way that benefits the Church.  They also make up new facts and stories to support their Church.  People who are strong catholics believe very strongly in the Church and in what the Church teaches, but they often seem to miss the point: they don't have a strong belief in the God.  They believe in the structure and following the rules and everything, but they don't actually have faith in the God.  For that reason, I think that Catholosicm is bad and dangerous, though perhaps not by intent. 

[Tuberload]

That's a good thing to hear. 

I have already stated that I don't believe in the Christian god.  In my life, that is non-negotiable.  But keep it in mind. 

I love Christianity, as a religion.  It teaches goodness and forgiveness and love of the fellow man.  Then 10 commandments are great, and something that everybody ought to live life by.  In that respect, I think that Christianity is great for the community and world as a whole, and that it does a lot of good in the world, even thought I don't believe in it.

Catholicism, on the other hand, I take great exception to.  Catholicism takes stories from the bible and interprets them in the way that benefits the Church.  They also make up new facts and stories to support their Church.  People who are strong catholics believe very strongly in the Church and in what the Church teaches, but they often seem to miss the point: they don't have a strong belief in the God.  They believe in the structure and following the rules and everything, but they don't actually have faith in the God.  For that reason, I think that Catholosicm is bad and dangerous, though perhaps not by intent. 

Yes and this is why the different factions are futile, because people are not really doing what they are supposed to. Everything will come naturally over time, by means of the Spirit if you are a true Christian. Preachers are only meant to encourage, and give advice to believers, nothing else. Catholicism is not intentionally bad, but it does not do what God wants them to do. Everybody is so caught up in the original laws of the Old Testament, but we are not able to live by these laws and God knows it. Christ was born, and died for our sins, freeing us from these laws. If you believe in Christ with all of your heart you will naturally (instinctively) start to live your life the way God always intended. We are all subject to sin, and lusts of the flesh. Belief in Christ and faith alone is all that can save us. From that point on God will do everything else for us, all we have to do is remain loyal.

My testimony: I am a recovering methamphetamine addict. I was an intravenous user at that (meaning I stuck a needle into my arm). I was violent, negative, and pissed off at the world. I would run around, gacked out of my mind, and rob industrial areas, people I didn’t know, and on rare occasions towards the end I even started robbing people who were once friends. I pushed away what little family I still had, and I even turned my back on my own daughter. All I could see in this world was negativity, so I figured why not fight for my piece of the pie. I could never keep any friends, because it was just a matter of time before I would find something wrong with them and tell them about it. I could not stop cheating on the only girl in this world that has really been there for me, and was the mother of my child. I have done just about every drug on the market today. Despite all the God given talents and abilities I possessed, I still turned my back on him. By the grace of God, I beat two counts of Assault With a Deadly Weapon 2nd and only got charged with Weapons Carrying and Handling. Just recently I served a small amount of time on a warrant issued for a TMVWOP 2nd (Taking a Motor Vehicle Without Owners Permission). I have various Malicious Mischief, Theft, Assault, MIP’s charges on my record as well. While in jail I decided to pick up, and honestly start reading the bible for the first time. After a week of this I full heartedly accepted Christ as my savior and immediately I got this feeling throughout my body that was better than any hit of dope I had ever done. From that point on I have been completely dedicated to the Lord, and just about every area of my life has changed in about two months. All I did was take a chance with something I could not see, and now nothing anything can say will ever lead me to believe God is not real. Was it easy at first, no, but because of my diligence and perseverance I am now starting to see God for that which he really is.

In the end it all comes down to this, we are either going to see God for that which he really is or we will not. It is not my job to force you to believe. I am only here to encourage, and point you in the right direction. You have to do the rest.

[rabbit]

Tub, before I start reply, I would just like to say: please edit and/or use "Insert Quote" when posting.  That is all.

John wrote to unbelievers.

My first question is this: if God gave Man free will, why would He punish those who choose not to believe in Him or His son?  That is not free will, that is "worship me and my son or go to hell".  That is a God I cannot believe in.

My second question is: not really a question.  Christians slayed those who disagreed.  Remember the incident with the first 10 commandments?  Moses went up, and half his followers started praying to a golden cow statue.  Moses was then ordered by God to mercilessly slay all those who had anything to do with the statue.  That is pretty much saying "if you don't worship God, you will be stabbed in the throat", which is close enough to saying "God rocks, your religion sucks".

And finally (I do not mean to be offensive or anything here, please don't get too mad): What would have happened if you picked up the Q'uran or the Torah instead of the Bible?  Or maybe the Ramadan, or possibly a Buddhist doctrine or the Book of Kama Sutra?  It sounds like you latched on to something because you were in jail.

[Tuberload]

Tub, before I start reply, I would just like to say: please edit and/or use "Insert Quote" when posting.  That is all.

I do use quotes, and I do edit my posts. I just choose to post a separate reply, when I am replying to a separate person. I like doing things this way, and it does not bother me that you may do things differently.

John wrote to unbelievers.

All four Gospels are directed towards unbelievers from a different perspective, so I fail to see what you mean by this.

My first question is this: if God gave Man free will, why would He punish those who choose not to believe in Him or His son?  That is not free will, that is "worship me and my son or go to hell".  That is a God I cannot believe in.

“Believe in God and Christ, or go to Hell” would better describe it, but yes, I suppose this is a choice we all have to make. The benefits of believing are also present on this world as well. It’s not as if you only receive the gift of eternal life by believing.

My second question is: not really a question.  Christians slayed those who disagreed.  Remember the incident with the first 10 commandments?  Moses went up, and half his followers started praying to a golden cow statue.  Moses was then ordered by God to mercilessly slay all those who had anything to do with the statue.  That is pretty much saying "if you don't worship God, you will be stabbed in the throat", which is close enough to saying "God rocks, your religion sucks".

All of this happened before Christ came to earth, so the ancients were not Christians. They could not be Christian because they did not follow the examples of Christ. I do not remember things happening exactly as you describe, so I will have to get back to you on this one.

And finally (I do not mean to be offensive or anything here, please don't get too mad): What would have happened if you picked up the Q'uran or the Torah instead of the Bible?  Or maybe the Ramadan, or possibly a Buddhist doctrine or the Book of Kama Sutra?  It sounds like you latched on to something because you were in jail.

One of the biggest changes in my attitude, as of late, is that I do not get offended or mad. If I would have picked up one of those books, it is plausible that I would have done with them as I did with every other book. Toss it aside and continue to live a miserable life. The point of my testimony was that nothing I myself ever did changed my life for the better, and after a simple act of faith everything about me was changed. I have latched onto many things, but this is the only thing that has not abandoned me. That is all the farther I am going to take it. Perhaps on a later date I can elaborate more on the different religious doctrines in comparison to the Bible.

[skip]

Honestly, religious debates can go on forever and ever. It's basically, someone points out a "flaw" in the Bible and someones contradicts what they say. A common characteristic of skeptics, agnostics, and atheists are, they ask boat loads of questions that criticize Christianity and discredit it with them, even though they themselves do not have answers to the essential questions of life. To me, it seems rather pointless to try and argue with someone in such a state. Instead, just begin to pray for the person.

Incidentally, I, myself am a devout Christian.

[rabbit]

Athiests are weird though.  I don't have the answers to the essential questions of life because I didn't create life.

Mathew wrote mainly directed towards the Jews, Mark wrote for the sake of non-Christians (or even people who didn't know the Old Testament so well), Luke wrote in chronological historical reference, and not necessarily targeted any specific group, and John wrote specifically targeting unbelievers of Christ.

Anyway, I never said I was agnostic.  I have a "modified" belief as a Friend.  I follow my religion wholey (sp?), but I do not believe in everything I am told.  And as per your praying for others, good for you.  If your religion or belief structure provides ways to do non-violent good for others (whether it may or may not work), I say go for it.

[leet_muffin]

Sorry, my mistake.  I don't know what I was thinking.

Or any specific god of any specific religion. I did not specify either.

It doesn't matter, though.  It's evident that we're talking about a specific god.

Who here actually believes in God?

Tuberload didn't say 'a god,' he said "God," indicating that he is refering to a speicifc deity.  Judging from reading a few of Tuberloads posts and knowing that Christian deity is generally referred to as "God," I quickly concluded he was speaking of the Christian god.

I suppose you could retract and say you were making an incidental statement, but I don't think it much matters.  We're not talking about 'a god,' we're talking about "God." ;P

In that case, the answer is no, absolutely not; I do not believe in the Christian god.

[Tuberload]

Honestly, religious debates can go on forever and ever. It's basically, someone points out a "flaw" in the Bible and someones contradicts what they say. A common characteristic of skeptics, agnostics, and atheists are, they ask boat loads of questions that criticize Christianity and discredit it with them, even though they themselves do not have answers to the essential questions of life. To me, it seems rather pointless to try and argue with someone in such a state. Instead, just begin to pray for the person.

Incidentally, I, myself am a devout Christian.

You are correct that it is pointless to argue with a person in such a state, but posting that, which contradicts what they are saying, may be beneficial to someone else reading the topic. So it seems that even though they can not answer the question themselves, there is a point to answering it for them. [Titus 2:15(AMP)] “Tell [them all] these things. Urge (advise, encourage, warn) and rebuke with full authority. Let no one despise or disregard or think little of you [conduct yourself and your teaching so as to command respect].”

From this point I will pray for them, and hope that my words can be seen by those that are passively reading. Possibly sparking some interest, and leading them to spiritual awakening. If the accuser cannot continue on questioning in a sensible fashion, his questions will go unanswered.

I am glad to hear you're a devout Christian though.

[Tuberload]

Mathew wrote mainly directed towards the Jews, Mark wrote for the sake of non-Christians (or even people who didn't know the Old Testament so well), Luke wrote in chronological historical reference, and not necessarily targeted any specific group, and John wrote specifically targeting unbelievers of Christ.

So pretty much what I said in this reply:

No the four Gospels (Mathew, Mark, Luke, John) present in the Bible all tell of the events and promises surrounding the life and death of Jesus from a different perspective. Mathew was mainly directed towards the Jews, Mark talked about Jesus’ Ministry, Luke was an exact historical reference, and off the top of my head I cannot remember exactly what John relates to but if there is interest I could look it up.

I do however appreciate the clarification that pertains to the Gospel of John.

Anyway, I never said I was agnostic.  I have a "modified" belief as a Friend.  I follow my religion wholey (sp?), but I do not believe in everything I am told.  And as per your praying for others, good for you.  If your religion or belief structure provides ways to do non-violent good for others (whether it may or may not work), I say go for it.

I did not think that you were agnostic, based on the knowledge present in your replies. I would however like to say that I would consider myself Spiritual before Religious, because none of my beliefs come from a preacher. I have gone to a physical Church one time since I became a believer. All of the knowledge and wisdom I possess comes from God himself through the Holy Spirit. He guides me in my studies, and speaks for me when the time arises.

I am not here to discredit anyone’s beliefs, but only to edify my own.

[rabbit]

The way you speak of how you practice your religion sounds more like the Friends' form (anyone may commune with the Spirit) rather than a Christian/Jewish form (where only certain people can commune [preachers, rabbis, etc...]).  Hm.

[Tuberload]

The way you speak of how you practice your religion sounds more like the Friends' form (anyone may commune with the Spirit) rather than a Christian/Jewish form (where only certain people can commune [preachers, rabbis, etc...]).  Hm.

We commune with the God, and the Spirit aids us in this. We are all called to prayer (conversations with God), and we are all (true Christians) baptized with the Spirit. Perhaps some Jewish (not all Jews believe in Christ) think that they are the only ones able to speak to God, but it is certainly not so with true Christians. I am part of a Christian fellowship, I just am not confined to one specific physical Church (be it Catholic, or Baptist). The Church, as far as Christianity is concerned, is the entire body of Christ. That is me and all of my fellow believers belong to the Church of Christ.

[wires]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

[Sidoh]

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

According to the Bible, the only two things you need for salvation are repentance and belief in Christ.  If you are not repentant for your sin, you will not be redeemed.

[skip]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

Well, bibically, it does matter how you live your life. If you truly believe Christ died for your sins and you are so thankful/sorrowful (which leads to the acceptance of Christ into your life) for it, why would you continue to commit the same sins that Christ had to die for? I'm not saying that once you become a Christian, you are automatically sinless. However, the moment you become a Christian, you should strive to fight off the constant temptation and sin.

Additionally, Christ is as far from sin as possible.

[AntiVirus]

I don't know anymore.  I mean, I believe in him, but.......  I don't know.

[wires]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

Well, bibically, it does matter how you live your life. If you truly believe Christ died for your sins and you are so thankful/sorrowful (which leads to the acceptance of Christ into your life) for it, why would you continue to commit the same sins that Christ had to die for? I'm not saying that once you become a Christian, you are automatically sinless. However, the moment you become a Christian, you should strive to fight off the constant temptation and sin.

Additionally, Christ is as far from sin as possible.

I'm not the best person at wording things, however what I'm trying to say is that I agree with Tuberload that most of my life has stayed the same even though I believe in God.  It'd probably be the same if I didn't believe in God.

Everyone sins even if they don't know that they have, nobody is perfect.

[rabbit]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

Well, bibically, it does matter how you live your life. If you truly believe Christ died for your sins and you are so thankful/sorrowful (which leads to the acceptance of Christ into your life) for it, why would you continue to commit the same sins that Christ had to die for? I'm not saying that once you become a Christian, you are automatically sinless. However, the moment you become a Christian, you should strive to fight off the constant temptation and sin.

Additionally, Christ is as far from sin as possible.

If everyone accepted Christ and never sinned, then Jesus died for nothing.

[Sidoh]

If everyone accepted Christ and never sinned, then Jesus died for nothing.

Incorrect.  Jesus died for the sins of all, not for the ones who won't recieve salvation.

As I already mentioned, salvation requires:
 -- True belief in Jesus Christ as the son of God.
 -- Absolute repentance of all of your sins

If everyone was sinless, Jesus would have died for nothing.

[wires]

If everyone was sinless, Jesus would have never died.

[skip]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

Well, bibically, it does matter how you live your life. If you truly believe Christ died for your sins and you are so thankful/sorrowful (which leads to the acceptance of Christ into your life) for it, why would you continue to commit the same sins that Christ had to die for? I'm not saying that once you become a Christian, you are automatically sinless. However, the moment you become a Christian, you should strive to fight off the constant temptation and sin.

Additionally, Christ is as far from sin as possible.

I'm not the best person at wording things, however what I'm trying to say is that I agree with Tuberload that most of my life has stayed the same even though I believe in God.  It'd probably be the same if I didn't believe in God.

Everyone sins even if they don't know that they have, nobody is perfect.

Haha, don't worry about it, I suck at wording things, too. Do you just believe in God or are you Christian? There is a misconception that if you believe in the Christian God, you are Christian, however, that is not the case, once you recieve salvation, then are you a Christian. If you claim you are a Christian and your life does not begin to change, then I have doubts about whether or not that what you claim is true or not.

@rabbit: When you repent your sins, you are acknowledging that you have sinned. You don't sin and just say, "Oh, Jesus died for my sins, so I don't need to bother to repent."
Since Christ Jesus died for our sins, God, the father, looks at us sinless. Jesus, basically, made us a bridge for us to enter the Kingdom of Heaven when he died for us.

[rabbit]

I meant if nobody ever sinned, not if they sinned and said "O Jesus is my savior, so I can do whatever I want".  Sheesh.

[trust]

I do.

[MyndFyre]

If everyone accepted Christ and never sinned, then Jesus died for nothing.

You have a logical error.

Christ died -> Forgave all sins for those who believed -> No sinners -> Christ died for nothing?

Your premise is faulty.

[Kaleeko]

If everyone accepted Christ and never sinned, then Jesus died for nothing.

You have a logical error.

Christ died -> Forgave all sins for those who believed -> No sinners -> Christ died for nothing?

Your premise is faulty.

Mainly because there is absolutely no way for humans not to sin. Sin is "turning away from God". Something that people cannot help but do, despite how hard they try. Any attempt to think that someone *can* make a difference in their salvation is called "works righteousness". While some people believe it's possible, my understanding is that it only brings people further from God, because once you start relying on yourself instead of God, you leave yourself open to lose your salvation.

[MyndFyre]

Mainly because there is absolutely no way for humans not to sin. Sin is "turning away from God". Something that people cannot help but do, despite how hard they try. Any attempt to think that someone *can* make a difference in their salvation is called "works righteousness". While some people believe it's possible, my understanding is that it only brings people further from God, because once you start relying on yourself instead of God, you leave yourself open to lose your salvation.

Well, I don't believe that it's possible to "lose" your salvation (which is a worthy topic to split into its own thread). 

The real crux of the matter, I think, is human pride.

Human pride causes people to think they know better for themselves than God.  They know their lives better than God.  They know what's good better than God.

Jesus said the most important two things were to love God and to love others, and that *all* of the rest of the law was derived from those.  Love in the way that the Bible instructs is incompatible with pride.

[rabbit]

The real crux of the matter, I think, is human pride.

Human pride causes people to think they know better for themselves than God.

That is why Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

[skip]

Mainly because there is absolutely no way for humans not to sin. Sin is "turning away from God". Something that people cannot help but do, despite how hard they try. Any attempt to think that someone *can* make a difference in their salvation is called "works righteousness". While some people believe it's possible, my understanding is that it only brings people further from God, because once you start relying on yourself instead of God, you leave yourself open to lose your salvation.

Well, I don't believe that it's possible to "lose" your salvation (which is a worthy topic to split into its own thread). 

The real crux of the matter, I think, is human pride.

Human pride causes people to think they know better for themselves than God.  They know their lives better than God.  They know what's good better than God.

Jesus said the most important two things were to love God and to love others, and that *all* of the rest of the law was derived from those.  Love in the way that the Bible instructs is incompatible with pride.

You can lose your salvation. My pastor mentioned this in one of his messages. I believe if you truly say you don't need God, you would lose it.

I think a major thing preventing people is the fact that people don't think they are that sinful, so thus, not needing God.

[MyndFyre]

You can lose your salvation. My pastor mentioned this in one of his messages. I believe if you truly say you don't need God, you would lose it.

You'll forgive me if I don't accept your pastor as authoritative?

[leet_muffin]

You can lose your salvation. My pastor mentioned this in one of his messages. I believe if you truly say you don't need God, you would lose it.

You'll forgive me if I don't accept your pastor as authoritative?

I will honor you for it. =)

[skip]

You can lose your salvation. My pastor mentioned this in one of his messages. I believe if you truly say you don't need God, you would lose it.

You'll forgive me if I don't accept your pastor as authoritative?

Of course I will!

So if we couldn't lose our salvarion, most people would recieve their salvation, then continue to live their own life after that. IE: rarely coming to church, never praying, not reading the Bible, etc. And yet we can still go to Heaven?

[d&q]

We might not all deserve an eternity in heaven, but I don't think too many people on this world deserve an eternity of torture.

[Sidoh]

So if we couldn't lose our salvarion, most people would recieve their salvation, then continue to live their own life after that. IE: rarely coming to church, never praying, not reading the Bible, etc. And yet we can still go to Heaven?

You're Christian, right?  Salvation requires: a) The unquestionable belief in Jesus Christ as our savior, and b) Repentance of all sins.

The Bible urges us to attend church and refresh our memories of the scripture because turning away from the religion as a whole becomes much easier as you detatch yourself from activities that practice your beliefs.

According to Christianity, salvation is not based on merrit.

We might not all deserve an eternity in heaven, but I don't think too many people on this world deserve an eternity of torture.

Like I said, salvation--or, conversely, damnation--is not based on merrit.

[d&q]

lol@merrit. 

So if I didn't believe in Jesus as my savior(if I was hindu or something), I would therefore not recieve salvation, and be damned to hell? That doesn't sound fair.

[Sidoh]

lol@merrit. 

So if I didn't believe in Jesus as my savior(if I was hindu or something), I would therefore not recieve salvation, and be damned to hell? That doesn't sound fair.

QQ

[rabbit]

lol@merrit. 

So if I didn't believe in Jesus as my savior(if I was hindu or something), I would therefore not recieve salvation, and be damned to hell? That doesn't sound fair.

Well no duh.  The first Commandment is "Thou shalt not have any other god before me".

[skip]

So if we couldn't lose our salvarion, most people would recieve their salvation, then continue to live their own life after that. IE: rarely coming to church, never praying, not reading the Bible, etc. And yet we can still go to Heaven?

You're Christian, right?  Salvation requires: a) The unquestionable belief in Jesus Christ as our savior, and b) Repentance of all sins.

Yeah, I understand that. However, sometimes we fall away from God. I say this from experience. The moment you recieve your salvation and the moment you die, do you never expect yourself to fall away?

And, what does "QQ" mean? lol.

[Sidoh]

Yeah, I understand that. However, sometimes we fall away from God. I say this from experience. The moment you recieve your salvation and the moment you die, do you never expect yourself to fall away?

And, what does "QQ" mean? lol.

Ok

QQ is sort of internet slang for "Cry more."  It's a cry face Q_Q

[d&q]

lol@merrit. 

So if I didn't believe in Jesus as my savior(if I was hindu or something), I would therefore not recieve salvation, and be damned to hell? That doesn't sound fair.

Well no duh.  The first Commandment is "Thou shalt not have any other god before me".

I mean like, what if you have never been exposed to Christianity? Or have been exposed to it by the wrong people.

[leet_muffin]

So, like, all the Africans that never have one of those missionary things come and greet them, and therefore have no idea about Christianity... They all go to hell? Cool.

[rabbit]

Exactly.  Well, not in my religion.

[Sidoh]

So, like, all the Africans that never have one of those missionary things come and greet them, and therefore have no idea about Christianity... They all go to hell? Cool.

The Bible says that those who are saved are filled with the Holy Spirit, and will seek out the gospel.

[leet_muffin]

God hates black people. So does Bush. Bush is God.

[Sidoh]

[Armin]

I'm pretty agnostic, but I'm more or less convinced there is something out there. I just refuse to put a name on it. I'm only 17. I've got a lot more time to spend on the planet figuring out what exactly I believe. I'm not in a hurry to settle my beliefs. It might create a more sound faith if I did, but people that are very set in their religions do tend to not be very open to other religious beliefs. (Tend meaning it is a stereotype, there certainly are people out there that are religious and aren't "crude" to people who believe something else.)

But, yes. I believe in God. Just not in any firm set beliefs pertaining to the idea of God.

I love you. Those have been my exact thoughts for like the past year.

[rabbit]

And she thinks I'm creepy?  Sheesh.

[Kaleeko]

And she thinks I'm creepy?  Sheesh.

Rofl. But you /are/ creepy.