I am just curious

[Tuberload]

Joe, several letters have conflicting stories about Jesus' crucifiction, so they can't all be true, which means that some of them are false, which makes me doubt all of them.  Also, were you there?  There is no proof anything in the Bible is true or false.

And yes, the Romans loved everyone in their empire until the Christians came.  When the Christians came, they said "you suck" so the Romans killed them.

Anyway, I'm agnostic.

And when did Tubey turn into a fortune cookie oO?

No the four Gospels (Mathew, Mark, Luke, John) present in the Bible all tell of the events and promises surrounding the life and death of Jesus from a different perspective. Mathew was mainly directed towards the Jews, Mark talked about Jesus’ Ministry, Luke was an exact historical reference, and off the top of my head I cannot remember exactly what John relates to but if there is interest I could look it up.

As many of you know, I was at one time, one of the most confrontational and negative minds present in this community. I have only come to accept Christ as my savior about two months ago. With that being said you can take my new outlook and attitude towards life as you will. You will either see it for that which it really is or you will continue to be blind towards the subject. This was all meant to be, and I just pray that you are all able to see the truth someday.

[iago]

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

That's a good thing to hear. 

I have already stated that I don't believe in the Christian god.  In my life, that is non-negotiable.  But keep it in mind. 

I love Christianity, as a religion.  It teaches goodness and forgiveness and love of the fellow man.  Then 10 commandments are great, and something that everybody ought to live life by.  In that respect, I think that Christianity is great for the community and world as a whole, and that it does a lot of good in the world, even thought I don't believe in it. 

Catholicism, on the other hand, I take great exception to.  Catholicism takes stories from the bible and interprets them in the way that benefits the Church.  They also make up new facts and stories to support their Church.  People who are strong catholics believe very strongly in the Church and in what the Church teaches, but they often seem to miss the point: they don't have a strong belief in the God.  They believe in the structure and following the rules and everything, but they don't actually have faith in the God.  For that reason, I think that Catholosicm is bad and dangerous, though perhaps not by intent. 

[Tuberload]

That's a good thing to hear. 

I have already stated that I don't believe in the Christian god.  In my life, that is non-negotiable.  But keep it in mind. 

I love Christianity, as a religion.  It teaches goodness and forgiveness and love of the fellow man.  Then 10 commandments are great, and something that everybody ought to live life by.  In that respect, I think that Christianity is great for the community and world as a whole, and that it does a lot of good in the world, even thought I don't believe in it.

Catholicism, on the other hand, I take great exception to.  Catholicism takes stories from the bible and interprets them in the way that benefits the Church.  They also make up new facts and stories to support their Church.  People who are strong catholics believe very strongly in the Church and in what the Church teaches, but they often seem to miss the point: they don't have a strong belief in the God.  They believe in the structure and following the rules and everything, but they don't actually have faith in the God.  For that reason, I think that Catholosicm is bad and dangerous, though perhaps not by intent. 

Yes and this is why the different factions are futile, because people are not really doing what they are supposed to. Everything will come naturally over time, by means of the Spirit if you are a true Christian. Preachers are only meant to encourage, and give advice to believers, nothing else. Catholicism is not intentionally bad, but it does not do what God wants them to do. Everybody is so caught up in the original laws of the Old Testament, but we are not able to live by these laws and God knows it. Christ was born, and died for our sins, freeing us from these laws. If you believe in Christ with all of your heart you will naturally (instinctively) start to live your life the way God always intended. We are all subject to sin, and lusts of the flesh. Belief in Christ and faith alone is all that can save us. From that point on God will do everything else for us, all we have to do is remain loyal.

My testimony: I am a recovering methamphetamine addict. I was an intravenous user at that (meaning I stuck a needle into my arm). I was violent, negative, and pissed off at the world. I would run around, gacked out of my mind, and rob industrial areas, people I didn’t know, and on rare occasions towards the end I even started robbing people who were once friends. I pushed away what little family I still had, and I even turned my back on my own daughter. All I could see in this world was negativity, so I figured why not fight for my piece of the pie. I could never keep any friends, because it was just a matter of time before I would find something wrong with them and tell them about it. I could not stop cheating on the only girl in this world that has really been there for me, and was the mother of my child. I have done just about every drug on the market today. Despite all the God given talents and abilities I possessed, I still turned my back on him. By the grace of God, I beat two counts of Assault With a Deadly Weapon 2nd and only got charged with Weapons Carrying and Handling. Just recently I served a small amount of time on a warrant issued for a TMVWOP 2nd (Taking a Motor Vehicle Without Owners Permission). I have various Malicious Mischief, Theft, Assault, MIP’s charges on my record as well. While in jail I decided to pick up, and honestly start reading the bible for the first time. After a week of this I full heartedly accepted Christ as my savior and immediately I got this feeling throughout my body that was better than any hit of dope I had ever done. From that point on I have been completely dedicated to the Lord, and just about every area of my life has changed in about two months. All I did was take a chance with something I could not see, and now nothing anything can say will ever lead me to believe God is not real. Was it easy at first, no, but because of my diligence and perseverance I am now starting to see God for that which he really is.

In the end it all comes down to this, we are either going to see God for that which he really is or we will not. It is not my job to force you to believe. I am only here to encourage, and point you in the right direction. You have to do the rest.

[rabbit]

Tub, before I start reply, I would just like to say: please edit and/or use "Insert Quote" when posting.  That is all.

John wrote to unbelievers.

My first question is this: if God gave Man free will, why would He punish those who choose not to believe in Him or His son?  That is not free will, that is "worship me and my son or go to hell".  That is a God I cannot believe in.

My second question is: not really a question.  Christians slayed those who disagreed.  Remember the incident with the first 10 commandments?  Moses went up, and half his followers started praying to a golden cow statue.  Moses was then ordered by God to mercilessly slay all those who had anything to do with the statue.  That is pretty much saying "if you don't worship God, you will be stabbed in the throat", which is close enough to saying "God rocks, your religion sucks".

And finally (I do not mean to be offensive or anything here, please don't get too mad): What would have happened if you picked up the Q'uran or the Torah instead of the Bible?  Or maybe the Ramadan, or possibly a Buddhist doctrine or the Book of Kama Sutra?  It sounds like you latched on to something because you were in jail.

[Tuberload]

Tub, before I start reply, I would just like to say: please edit and/or use "Insert Quote" when posting.  That is all.

I do use quotes, and I do edit my posts. I just choose to post a separate reply, when I am replying to a separate person. I like doing things this way, and it does not bother me that you may do things differently.

John wrote to unbelievers.

All four Gospels are directed towards unbelievers from a different perspective, so I fail to see what you mean by this.

My first question is this: if God gave Man free will, why would He punish those who choose not to believe in Him or His son?  That is not free will, that is "worship me and my son or go to hell".  That is a God I cannot believe in.

“Believe in God and Christ, or go to Hell” would better describe it, but yes, I suppose this is a choice we all have to make. The benefits of believing are also present on this world as well. It’s not as if you only receive the gift of eternal life by believing.

My second question is: not really a question.  Christians slayed those who disagreed.  Remember the incident with the first 10 commandments?  Moses went up, and half his followers started praying to a golden cow statue.  Moses was then ordered by God to mercilessly slay all those who had anything to do with the statue.  That is pretty much saying "if you don't worship God, you will be stabbed in the throat", which is close enough to saying "God rocks, your religion sucks".

All of this happened before Christ came to earth, so the ancients were not Christians. They could not be Christian because they did not follow the examples of Christ. I do not remember things happening exactly as you describe, so I will have to get back to you on this one.

And finally (I do not mean to be offensive or anything here, please don't get too mad): What would have happened if you picked up the Q'uran or the Torah instead of the Bible?  Or maybe the Ramadan, or possibly a Buddhist doctrine or the Book of Kama Sutra?  It sounds like you latched on to something because you were in jail.

One of the biggest changes in my attitude, as of late, is that I do not get offended or mad. If I would have picked up one of those books, it is plausible that I would have done with them as I did with every other book. Toss it aside and continue to live a miserable life. The point of my testimony was that nothing I myself ever did changed my life for the better, and after a simple act of faith everything about me was changed. I have latched onto many things, but this is the only thing that has not abandoned me. That is all the farther I am going to take it. Perhaps on a later date I can elaborate more on the different religious doctrines in comparison to the Bible.

[skip]

Honestly, religious debates can go on forever and ever. It's basically, someone points out a "flaw" in the Bible and someones contradicts what they say. A common characteristic of skeptics, agnostics, and atheists are, they ask boat loads of questions that criticize Christianity and discredit it with them, even though they themselves do not have answers to the essential questions of life. To me, it seems rather pointless to try and argue with someone in such a state. Instead, just begin to pray for the person.

Incidentally, I, myself am a devout Christian.

[rabbit]

Athiests are weird though.  I don't have the answers to the essential questions of life because I didn't create life.

Mathew wrote mainly directed towards the Jews, Mark wrote for the sake of non-Christians (or even people who didn't know the Old Testament so well), Luke wrote in chronological historical reference, and not necessarily targeted any specific group, and John wrote specifically targeting unbelievers of Christ.

Anyway, I never said I was agnostic.  I have a "modified" belief as a Friend.  I follow my religion wholey (sp?), but I do not believe in everything I am told.  And as per your praying for others, good for you.  If your religion or belief structure provides ways to do non-violent good for others (whether it may or may not work), I say go for it.

[leet_muffin]

Sorry, my mistake.  I don't know what I was thinking.

Or any specific god of any specific religion. I did not specify either.

It doesn't matter, though.  It's evident that we're talking about a specific god.

Who here actually believes in God?

Tuberload didn't say 'a god,' he said "God," indicating that he is refering to a speicifc deity.  Judging from reading a few of Tuberloads posts and knowing that Christian deity is generally referred to as "God," I quickly concluded he was speaking of the Christian god.

I suppose you could retract and say you were making an incidental statement, but I don't think it much matters.  We're not talking about 'a god,' we're talking about "God." ;P

In that case, the answer is no, absolutely not; I do not believe in the Christian god.

[Tuberload]

Honestly, religious debates can go on forever and ever. It's basically, someone points out a "flaw" in the Bible and someones contradicts what they say. A common characteristic of skeptics, agnostics, and atheists are, they ask boat loads of questions that criticize Christianity and discredit it with them, even though they themselves do not have answers to the essential questions of life. To me, it seems rather pointless to try and argue with someone in such a state. Instead, just begin to pray for the person.

Incidentally, I, myself am a devout Christian.

You are correct that it is pointless to argue with a person in such a state, but posting that, which contradicts what they are saying, may be beneficial to someone else reading the topic. So it seems that even though they can not answer the question themselves, there is a point to answering it for them. [Titus 2:15(AMP)] “Tell [them all] these things. Urge (advise, encourage, warn) and rebuke with full authority. Let no one despise or disregard or think little of you [conduct yourself and your teaching so as to command respect].”

From this point I will pray for them, and hope that my words can be seen by those that are passively reading. Possibly sparking some interest, and leading them to spiritual awakening. If the accuser cannot continue on questioning in a sensible fashion, his questions will go unanswered.

I am glad to hear you're a devout Christian though.

[Tuberload]

Mathew wrote mainly directed towards the Jews, Mark wrote for the sake of non-Christians (or even people who didn't know the Old Testament so well), Luke wrote in chronological historical reference, and not necessarily targeted any specific group, and John wrote specifically targeting unbelievers of Christ.

So pretty much what I said in this reply:

No the four Gospels (Mathew, Mark, Luke, John) present in the Bible all tell of the events and promises surrounding the life and death of Jesus from a different perspective. Mathew was mainly directed towards the Jews, Mark talked about Jesus’ Ministry, Luke was an exact historical reference, and off the top of my head I cannot remember exactly what John relates to but if there is interest I could look it up.

I do however appreciate the clarification that pertains to the Gospel of John.

Anyway, I never said I was agnostic.  I have a "modified" belief as a Friend.  I follow my religion wholey (sp?), but I do not believe in everything I am told.  And as per your praying for others, good for you.  If your religion or belief structure provides ways to do non-violent good for others (whether it may or may not work), I say go for it.

I did not think that you were agnostic, based on the knowledge present in your replies. I would however like to say that I would consider myself Spiritual before Religious, because none of my beliefs come from a preacher. I have gone to a physical Church one time since I became a believer. All of the knowledge and wisdom I possess comes from God himself through the Holy Spirit. He guides me in my studies, and speaks for me when the time arises.

I am not here to discredit anyone’s beliefs, but only to edify my own.

[rabbit]

The way you speak of how you practice your religion sounds more like the Friends' form (anyone may commune with the Spirit) rather than a Christian/Jewish form (where only certain people can commune [preachers, rabbis, etc...]).  Hm.

[Tuberload]

The way you speak of how you practice your religion sounds more like the Friends' form (anyone may commune with the Spirit) rather than a Christian/Jewish form (where only certain people can commune [preachers, rabbis, etc...]).  Hm.

We commune with the God, and the Spirit aids us in this. We are all called to prayer (conversations with God), and we are all (true Christians) baptized with the Spirit. Perhaps some Jewish (not all Jews believe in Christ) think that they are the only ones able to speak to God, but it is certainly not so with true Christians. I am part of a Christian fellowship, I just am not confined to one specific physical Church (be it Catholic, or Baptist). The Church, as far as Christianity is concerned, is the entire body of Christ. That is me and all of my fellow believers belong to the Church of Christ.

[wires]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

[Sidoh]

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

According to the Bible, the only two things you need for salvation are repentance and belief in Christ.  If you are not repentant for your sin, you will not be redeemed.

[skip]

Yes.  However I don't believe in what many denominations teach, especially things that are clearly stated in the Bible.

You should not align yourself with any specific denomination other than that of Christ’s Ministry, often times referred to as Christianity. Factions within the Church (assembly of believers, not necessarily a building) lead to futility, and are not what has been taught to us. You will however naturally [thanks to the Spirit] start to live your life according to the divine words of wisdom found inside the Bible, if you whole heartedly devout your life to Christ. This does not however mean that you will live a boring, uneventful life, which has been portrayed by much of society. The way I dress, the types of music I listen too, the things I like to do for fun has, for the most part, stayed the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord. The only real difference is I no longer have conflict of conscious going on inside of me, and this has lead to my overall happiness and well-being.

Yes, I agree.  I don't think it matters how you live your life as long as you believe in Christ like you've said.  Many people would disagree, especially people at my church who are total hypocrites.

Well, bibically, it does matter how you live your life. If you truly believe Christ died for your sins and you are so thankful/sorrowful (which leads to the acceptance of Christ into your life) for it, why would you continue to commit the same sins that Christ had to die for? I'm not saying that once you become a Christian, you are automatically sinless. However, the moment you become a Christian, you should strive to fight off the constant temptation and sin.

Additionally, Christ is as far from sin as possible.