Girl, 11, PREGNANT

[CrAz3D]

Atleast she isn't getting an Abortion.  I atleast respect that.  But getting pregnant at her age was the dumbest thing anyone could ever do.  Good job dipshit.

I'd rather see her get an abortion than bring up a child the same way she was brought up.  "You know it's never gonna end, the same ol' cycle just starts again...."

I don't think we should kill someone to solve this problem.  We should educate her on how to be a better mother.

Take the kid away.

This is why I support abortion (unfortunately)...that kid will grow up in a bad environment eventually to most likely become not a great addition to society.

[Sidoh]

This is why I support abortion (unfortunately)...that kid will grow up in a bad environment eventually to most likely become not a great addition to society.

Who are you to base the life of another on probability?

What if, while preganent with you, your mother said to your father: "You know, we aren't that financially stable at the moment.  This will probably result in poor environment to raise a child and he'll grow into a poor addition to society.  I think we should have an abortion."?

What if everyone believed what you did: that we should base the life of someone who's unable to decide for themselves (yet) on probability?  I'm not saying its normally a good foundation to practice, but not when you're dealing with something as sensitive as a life.  This world is too arbitrary to say 'This child will amount to nothing.'  You have no way of saying that with any degree of certainty.

Have you ever heard the saying "Nature over nurture?"

[CrAz3D]

1) People are going to have abortions whether or not they are illegal...it'd be safer for everyone if it is just legal
2) People suck
3) Its probable that the kid won't be loved etc, why not play the odds?  Life obviously doesn't matter to someone considering an abortion to begin with

[Sidoh]

1) People are going to have abortions whether or not they are illegal...it'd be safer for everyone if it is just legal

People are going to murder whether or not it is illegal.  Does that mean that murder should be legal so there is no penality?

2) People suck

Again: don't base life on probability or generalization.

3) Its probable that the kid won't be loved etc, why not play the odds?  Life obviously doesn't matter to someone considering an abortion to begin with

It's also possible he's the kid that will persevere though his troubled times and flourish in his accomplishments and efforts.  I don't think it should matter to anyone other than the person at reference if the life matters or not.

[Joe]

Go Sidoh! Woo.

[CrAz3D]

1) People are going to have abortions whether or not they are illegal...it'd be safer for everyone if it is just legal

People are going to murder whether or not it is illegal.  Does that mean that murder should be legal so there is no penality?

2) People suck

Again: don't base life on probability or generalization.

3) Its probable that the kid won't be loved etc, why not play the odds?  Life obviously doesn't matter to someone considering an abortion to begin with

It's also possible he's the kid that will persevere though his troubled times and flourish in his accomplishments and efforts.  I don't think it should matter to anyone other than the person at reference if the life matters or not.

I agree with you totally...which is what I don't believe abortion is right.  But I would compromise & support it just because people suck & its also a form of population control.


In the end, I figure compromises have to be made & there are other things I'd like to us to accomplish before we set out to stop abortions.

[Newby]

Joe: Oh my gosh, look at this. Some girl got pregnant at age 11.
Trina: Well how do you know if that's true?

Hehe.

Who.. Wait.. uh... 100% who the fuck cares? Joe, no more people you know, kk.

/signed. Joe, you're the reason we should allow abortion up until age 10.

Abortion = God. It's killing and saving the parents' lives from having to put up with raising a kid they're not ready for, and the baby was barely old enough to remember what was up.

[Sidoh]

I agree with you totally...which is what I don't believe abortion is right.  But I would compromise & support it just because people suck & its also a form of population control.

People don't suck.  Overly malevolent people suck, but that doesn't mean that every child that is aborted would have been a bad person.  I totally ackowledge the present probability that the child would have been, but that is inseparable with the inherant possibility that the child could have been a prodigdy.  They could have been a leader.  They could have been someone who changes the face of the Earth.

Genocide is a form of population control.  Does that make it right?

In the end, I figure compromises have to be made & there are other things I'd like to us to accomplish before we set out to stop abortions.

Not resisting abortion doesn't mean you have to support it.  I'm totally against it, but I could never see myself marching around the sidewalks of a hospital carrying signs reading "MURDERERS."

[Rule]

They could have been a leader.  They could have been someone who changes the face of the Earth.

...well aren't they special?

Not resisting abortion doesn't mean you have to support it.  I'm totally against it, but I could never see myself marching around the sidewalks of a hospital carrying signs reading "MURDERERS."

So you support the idea of not legislating on abortion, but personally have a moral objection to abortion? 

[MyndFyre]

So you support the idea of not legislating on abortion, but personally have a moral objection to abortion? 

That implies actively being against legislation.  I would not do such a thing.  Similarly, while I think that government has no place in telling homosexuals that they can't marry, I'm not going to go out and actively protest against legislation against gay marriage.

[Rule]

That implies actively being against legislation. 

No it doesn't.  Just because you have a belief (or in otherwords you support a position), doesn't mean you're going to march out into the world and start actively protesting.  You support not legislating on homosexual marriage, since you

think that government has no place in telling homosexuals that they can't marry.

You just don't feel strongly enough about it to spend your day holding protest signs.  This is probably because you have a moral objection to homosexual marriage that counterbalances your more intellectual position that the government shouldn't get involved.

[iago]

Sidoh, if you're going to make the, "the baby could be beneficial to society" argument, then we also have to outlaw condoms and force people to have sex as much as possible.  Why?  Because each baby they don't have may benefit society.  So not aboring a baby because it might benefit society is useless to surmise. 

Now the problem is, the core argument here is being overlooked as it always is in abortion cases: is an unborn baby alive?  People tend to ignore that and preach morality and all that fun stuff, which doesn't further the argument on abortion.

So, the only real problem we have here is AntiVirus's statement, calling abortion "murder".  When we kill cows for food, we don't call that murder (unless you're PETA, but that's different), because the animals aren't human.  So the question becomes, is the unborn fetus a human?

I don't think anybody can answer that.  It depends on your definition of human.  Sure it "becomes" human, but so does sperm and we don't outlaw maturbation.  So, when does a human, by definition, become human? 

Legally, the answer is after the first trimester.  Is that the appropriate cut-off point? 

[deadly7]

I'd say until a body forms inside the womb (a full body) it's not human, but that's me.

[iago]

but that's me.

And that's the problem with abortion arguments.  Nobody can even properly define a human, and nobody agrees on when the human emerges. 

That's why the abortion question is, at the moment, unanswerable.

[CrAz3D]

Sidoh, if you're going to make the, "the baby could be beneficial to society" argument, then we also have to outlaw condoms and force people to have sex as much as possible.  Why?  Because each baby they don't have may benefit society.  So not aboring a baby because it might benefit society is useless to surmise. 

As discussed at the vL forums, sperm does not have the same potential for life.  Sperm/egg forming human > just sperm.
& you couldn't make people have MORE sex...that'd be against nature.


My thing is still that people suck.
Also, if I was severley handicapped I wouldn't want to go through life like that, screw it, bring on the next one.