Hm, we only have 8 planets now.

[Joe]

Yup. As of August 24th '06, Pluto officially isn't a planet, failing to meet the third condition of a planet's definition: "It must have cleared the neighborhood around its orbit. This means nothing of comparable mass may orbit near the planet. (While the phrase "comparable mass" sounds vague, there's no comparison between the eight planets and Pluto. The Earth is more than a million times as massive as any near-Earth asteroid. Pluto is only about 20 times as massive as Orcus, which has a similar orbit.)"

Not too big of a change, although it'll take some time to get used to not saying "Pluto" as you finish reciting the planets. Poor Pluto.

Makes you wonder, though, if there is alien life forms, if they're saying stuff like this about the earth. We're definately not a dwarf by any standard, but say someone lives on our moon (in this circumstance, the moon landing was shot in a studio, etc etc). Perhaps they think the earth is the sun or something. Or perhaps we're wrong. NASA just proved themselves wrong. Hm.

[CrAz3D]

aww, Pluto was discovered by a dude from here.

His daughter was a teacher at my elementary school & always talked about it to classes, it was cool.

[zorm]

Yup. As of August 24th '06, Pluto officially isn't a planet, failing to meet the third condition of a planet's definition: "It must have cleared the neighborhood around its orbit. This means nothing of comparable mass may orbit near the planet. (While the phrase "comparable mass" sounds vague, there's no comparison between the eight planets and Pluto. The Earth is more than a million times as massive as any near-Earth asteroid. Pluto is only about 20 times as massive as Orcus, which has a similar orbit.)"

Not too big of a change, although it'll take some time to get used to not saying "Pluto" as you finish reciting the planets. Poor Pluto.

Makes you wonder, though, if there is alien life forms, if they're saying stuff like this about the earth. We're definately not a dwarf by any standard, but say someone lives on our moon (in this circumstance, the moon landing was shot in a studio, etc etc). Perhaps they think the earth is the sun or something. Or perhaps we're wrong. NASA just proved themselves wrong. Hm.

NASA didn't make the decision, perhaps try reading the article before rambling mindlessly next time?

[rabbit]

Didn't only 10% of the IAU vote on this?

[iago]

Although Pluto isn't a full planet anymore, it's still a "Dwarf Planet", which we can only assume means that Dwarfs live there. 

Anyway, I think that our next order of business is to convince them to rename "Pluto" to "Yuggoth".  Anybody with me?

[Rule]

NASA didn't make the decision, perhaps try reading the article before rambling mindlessly next time?

No kidding.  Not even counting the retarded speculation at the end, his post makes no sense.

Yup. As of August 24th '06, Pluto officially isn't a planet, failing to meet the third condition of a planet's definition: "It must have cleared the neighborhood around its orbit. This means nothing of comparable mass may orbit near the planet. (While the phrase "comparable mass" sounds vague, there's no comparison between the eight planets and Pluto. The Earth is more than a million times as massive as any near-Earth asteroid. Pluto is only about 20 times as massive as Orcus, which has a similar orbit.)"

1) So if the 8 planets aren't comparable to Pluto, then nothing of comparable mass orbits near Pluto, and so condition three is met by Pluto.
2) If we just assume you're an idiot and ignore what you have in ellipses, wouldn't Neptune also not be a planet by the same condition you described?

As an aside, I think this "third condition" is really stupid.  If Mars managed to get pushed so that it's orbit intersects Earth's, would both Earth and Mars no longer be planets?

[Armin]

What does this mean for Mickey Mouse's dog, Pluto?

[Furious]

Although Pluto isn't a full planet anymore, it's still a "Dwarf Planet", which we can only assume means that Dwarfs live there. 

Anyway, I think that our next order of business is to convince them to rename "Pluto" to "Yuggoth".  Anybody with me?

Dwarves?

[Joe]

Furious owned iago.

I read the Wikipedia article on it, when looking at the top 50 wikipedia articles for the past month. I didn't read a news article on it, but I saw recent information on a Wikipage.

[iago]

Although Pluto isn't a full planet anymore, it's still a "Dwarf Planet", which we can only assume means that Dwarfs live there. 

Anyway, I think that our next order of business is to convince them to rename "Pluto" to "Yuggoth".  Anybody with me?

Dwarves?

Depends.  Tokien wrote several pages at the beginning of LoTR dedicated to "elves" vs "elfs" and "dwarves" vs "dwarfs".  Or maybe it was the beginning of The Hobbit, but I don't think so.  Either way, they're both valid spellings, according to Tolkien, and he chose one of the other (I forget which) for no other reason than consistancy. 

[MyndFyre]

Makes you wonder, though, if there is alien life forms, if they're saying stuff like this about the earth. We're definately not a dwarf by any standard, but say someone lives on our moon (in this circumstance, the moon landing was shot in a studio, etc etc). Perhaps they think the earth is the sun or something. Or perhaps we're wrong. NASA just proved themselves wrong. Hm.

I really don't understand why this would make you wonder about aliens.  In fact, I don't really understand the thought process you just described (perhaps there wasn't one).  

[Joe]

I was saying, if there's intelligent life out there, maybe they're thinking these same things about us. IE, we believe we revolve around the sun, and we call it a star. If there are moon men, perhaps they think they revolve around the earth, and that it's a star. A really funky one that only gives light from weird angles. And the other planets, to them, are other stars. I just think it's kind of cool.

[iago]

A really funky one that only gives light from weird angles.

Just for trivia, the Earth reflects to the moon the equivalent light that 9 of our moons would reflect on earth.  So imagine a clear night with a full moon -- on the moon, it would be 9x as bright.  Just saying

[Warrior]

I was saying, if there's intelligent life out there, maybe they're thinking these same things about us. IE, we believe we revolve around the sun, and we call it a star. If there are moon men, perhaps they think they revolve around the earth, and that it's a star. A really funky one that only gives light from weird angles. And the other planets, to them, are other stars. I just think it's kind of cool.

What the hell....somewhere an Astronomy teacher is crying right now.

[iago]

I was saying, if there's intelligent life out there, maybe they're thinking these same things about us. IE, we believe we revolve around the sun, and we call it a star. If there are moon men, perhaps they think they revolve around the earth, and that it's a star. A really funky one that only gives light from weird angles. And the other planets, to them, are other stars. I just think it's kind of cool.

What the hell....somewhere an Astronomy teacher is crying right now.

Why, exactly?  Everything he said is factually correct, as far as I can tell..

[Warrior]

I was saying, if there's intelligent life out there, maybe they're thinking these same things about us. IE, we believe we revolve around the sun, and we call it a star. If there are moon men, perhaps they think they revolve around the earth, and that it's a star. A really funky one that only gives light from weird angles. And the other planets, to them, are other stars. I just think it's kind of cool.

What the hell....somewhere an Astronomy teacher is crying right now.

Why, exactly?  Everything he said is factually correct, as far as I can tell..

That is so incredibly retarded, who the hell thinks like that. Astronomy teachers usually teach valuable information not babble on about their rendition of the how the universe works.

[iago]

I was saying, if there's intelligent life out there, maybe they're thinking these same things about us. IE, we believe we revolve around the sun, and we call it a star. If there are moon men, perhaps they think they revolve around the earth, and that it's a star. A really funky one that only gives light from weird angles. And the other planets, to them, are other stars. I just think it's kind of cool.

What the hell....somewhere an Astronomy teacher is crying right now.

Why, exactly?  Everything he said is factually correct, as far as I can tell..

That is so incredibly retarded, who the hell thinks like that. Astronomy teachers usually teach valuable information not babble on about their rendition of the how the universe works.

I don't think that he's giving any rendition on how he thinks the universe works.  He was giving a, "wouldn't it be interesting if...." scenario, about how aliens might feel about our star.  Not the deepest thought, but I don't think he even attempts to put forward any facts or even any opinions. 

[Sidoh]

Why, exactly?  Everything he said is factually correct, as far as I can tell..

Not really.  Assuming they think they revolve around "the star" Earth makes no sense to me.  A star is a sphere of burning gas, which Earth is not.  Giving a word a totally different, unaccepted definition makes a statement pretty false, if you ask me.

[iago]

Why, exactly?  Everything he said is factually correct, as far as I can tell..

Not really.  Assuming they think they revolve around "the star" Earth makes no sense to me.  A star is a sphere of burning gas, which Earth is not.  Giving a word a totally different, unaccepted definition makes a statement pretty false, if you ask me.

So the possibility that moon-men might consider earth to be a star is a false?  How can an opinion be incorrect?

[MyndFyre]

I was saying, if there's intelligent life out there, maybe they're thinking these same things about us. IE, we believe we revolve around the sun, and we call it a star. If there are moon men, perhaps they think they revolve around the earth, and that it's a star. A really funky one that only gives light from weird angles. And the other planets, to them, are other stars. I just think it's kind of cool.

What the hell....somewhere an Astronomy teacher is crying right now.

Why, exactly?  Everything he said is factually correct, as far as I can tell..

Because he's assuming they would have the same definitions as we.  If they called the earth a star and the sun a planet, to us, the earth is still a planet and the sun still a star.  It's just word trivialities and semantic crap.

[Rule]

It's just word trivialities and semantic crap.

Right up your alley then.

[Sidoh]

So the possibility that moon-men might consider earth to be a star is a false?  How can an opinion be incorrect?

Because the definition of a star is objective; opinions have nothing to do with it.

[iago]

So the possibility that moon-men might consider earth to be a star is a false?  How can an opinion be incorrect?

Because the definition of a star is objective; opinions have nothing to do with it.

Aliens wouldn't necessarily have the same definition, and I think that was his point.  They might consider the Earth the same way we consider the Sun/a Star. 

I don't think aliens' opinion of earth is objective at all, unltil we meet aliens and ask them. 

[Rule]

So the possibility that moon-men might consider earth to be a star is a false?  How can an opinion be incorrect?

Because the definition of a star is objective; opinions have nothing to do with it.

Aliens wouldn't necessarily have the same definition, and I think that was his point.  They might consider the Earth the same way we consider the Sun/a Star. 

I don't think aliens' opinion of earth is objective at all, unltil we meet aliens and ask them. 

So you're saying his point was that aliens might happen to use the English word "star," and give it a completely different definition.   Seems like rather meaningless speculation...

I could interpret his post to be saying, "aliens might have a completely different perspective of our solar system than we do," but it's hard to interpolate anything subtle or non-obvious from what was wrriten.

[iago]

So you're saying his point was that aliens might happen to use the English word "star," and give it a completely different definition.   Seems like rather meaningless speculation...

I could interpret his post to be saying, "aliens might have a completely different perspective of our solar system than we do," but it's hard to interpolate anything subtle or non-obvious from what was wrriten.

I can agree with that.  It still doesn't make him wrong, technically, just useless.  And I think I said that

[Joe]

Why, exactly?  Everything he said is factually correct, as far as I can tell..

Not really.  Assuming they think they revolve around "the star" Earth makes no sense to me.  A star is a sphere of burning gas, which Earth is not.  Giving a word a totally different, unaccepted definition makes a statement pretty false, if you ask me.

In my said theory, star simply means the center of the universe to them, for clarification.

[Rule]

Why, exactly?  Everything he said is factually correct, as far as I can tell..

Not really.  Assuming they think they revolve around "the star" Earth makes no sense to me.  A star is a sphere of burning gas, which Earth is not.  Giving a word a totally different, unaccepted definition makes a statement pretty false, if you ask me.

In my said theory, star simply means the center of the universe to them, for clarification.

Can you explain why they're using English?

[Sidoh]

Aliens wouldn't necessarily have the same definition, and I think that was his point.  They might consider the Earth the same way we consider the Sun/a Star. 

I don't think aliens' opinion of earth is objective at all, unltil we meet aliens and ask them. 

Then the word "star" becomes meaningless, which is exactly what I was saying.  Just because two words are pronounced the same way in two different languages doesn't mean that they have the same meaning behind them.

Opinions are never objective, but that isn't the point of what I'm attempting to say.  The definition of a star is objective.  The definition behind the word we use to represent the definition is objective.  Sure, you can choose any arbitrary sequence of communication methods to accomplish this, but that doesn't mean that two matching ways in two different languages should have the same definition.  It's a burning sphere of gas.  Words mean nothing if their definitions aren't considered.  If two words in two different languages are pronounced in the same way but have totally different definitions, what's the point of comparing them for the sake of definition?

The alien may say: "The Earth is our *star*," but according to our definition of a star, "a celestial body of hot gases that radiates energy derived from thermonuclear reactions in the interior," we would not agree, so we either assume that a) The aliens are incorrect because they are ignorant and are unable to determine that the Earth is not a burning ball of gas or b) The aliens have a different definition for the word "star."  If b) is true, we can also assume that they have another word to represent our definition of "star."

This is such a useless argument.

In my said theory, star simply means the center of the universe to them, for clarification.

The sun is not the center of "our" universe.  It is the center of our solar system, which is not even close to a universe.  It never was the center and never will be.  If the "center of the universe" even existed (I don't think it does), it would be the same point in space from every vantage point.

Can you explain why they're using English?

Haha, exactly why I said the argument I'm having with iago is dumb.  haha.