No Vista for Europe unless they cooperate

[Newby]

http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3631041

PWNED!

[Warrior]

LOL JESUS CHRIST, THANK YOU MICROSOFT.

[Armin]

Haha, I love these kinds of stories. Person A tries to control Person B, then Person B comes out and blackmails Person A.

[iago]

Awesome!  I hope that happens, I could totally see Europeans embracing Linux or other free alternatives.  After all, Europeans are all about freedom, it seems

[MyndFyre]

Awesome!  I hope that happens, I could totally see Europeans embracing Linux or other free alternatives.  After all, Europeans are all about freedom, it seems

Doubtful. But you can keep dreaming.

[Warrior]

Awesome!  I hope that happens, I could totally see Europeans embracing Linux or other free alternatives.  After all, Europeans are all about freedom, it seems

More like, they'll wait a year or two until the EU backs down and Europe will end up getting Vista SP1. It would hurt more to do a Europe wide ban on Windows, that would shit on Europe.

[Blaze]

Awesome!  I hope that happens, I could totally see Europeans embracing Linux or other free alternatives.  After all, Europeans are all about freedom, it seems

More like, they'll wait a year or two until the EU backs down and Europe will end up getting Vista SP1. It would hurt more to do a Europe wide ban on Windows, that would shit on Europe.

They could ship later on for an overpriced amount and sell it for a lot.  It would help Linux too in the time they don't sell it, it's like a win-win!

[iago]

Awesome!  I hope that happens, I could totally see Europeans embracing Linux or other free alternatives.  After all, Europeans are all about freedom, it seems

More like, they'll wait a year or two until the EU backs down and Europe will end up getting Vista SP1. It would hurt more to do a Europe wide ban on Windows, that would shit on Europe.

That's assuming they break down.  There are plenty of alternatives, many of which I consider superior.  It's like the metric system: sure it'll take a few years to get used to the overall change, but in the long-run it would be a huge improvement. 

But there isn't much chance of that happening.  More likely they'll come to a compromise.  But I can dream!

[rabbit]

Yeah I still don't get why we use the fucked up Imperial system :\

[Warrior]

Awesome!  I hope that happens, I could totally see Europeans embracing Linux or other free alternatives.  After all, Europeans are all about freedom, it seems

More like, they'll wait a year or two until the EU backs down and Europe will end up getting Vista SP1. It would hurt more to do a Europe wide ban on Windows, that would shit on Europe.

That's assuming they break down.  There are plenty of alternatives, many of which I consider superior.  It's like the metric system: sure it'll take a few years to get used to the overall change, but in the long-run it would be a huge improvement. 

But there isn't much chance of that happening.  More likely they'll come to a compromise.  But I can dream!

I think they will, the European Union isn't being very fair. They arn't even TELLING Microsoft what to do to fix Vista, basically they're giving a vague description and telling them to deal with it. I think it's Microsoft that has the cards here, not the EU. What can Microsoft lose from a Europe loss? Vista isn't going to account for ALL of it's sales and Microsoft doesnt get all of it's sales from Vista.

So let's say Microsoft bans Vista from Europe for 1 year. The amount of money lost would be probably less than 1/3rd of their annual earnings for Windows. Would it hurt? Sure it'd sting a little.

I'm all for stopping abusive monopolies but not when you dont tell them what to do to comply. The EU told MS to remove WMP from XP and they did with XP version N (or something).

This will probably end up being a PR war with Microsoft making the EU look like a big bully and the EU eventually either easing up and telling MS what's wrong or the EU completely complying.

For example, how many home users (outside of technical people) view Microsoft as the "Bad guy". Most people in my family think that Microsoft produces great products so I don't think that the EU is winning an y popularity contests with the general public anytime soon.

[iago]

I think they will, the European Union isn't being very fair. They arn't even TELLING Microsoft what to do to fix Vista, basically they're giving a vague description and telling them to deal with it. I think it's Microsoft that has the cards here, not the EU. What can Microsoft lose from a Europe loss? Vista isn't going to account for ALL of it's sales and Microsoft doesnt get all of it's sales from Vista.

So let's say Microsoft bans Vista from Europe for 1 year. The amount of money lost would be probably less than 1/3rd of their annual earnings for Windows. Would it hurt? Sure it'd sting a little.

I'm all for stopping abusive monopolies but not when you dont tell them what to do to comply. The EU told MS to remove WMP from XP and they did with XP version N (or something).

This will probably end up being a PR war with Microsoft making the EU look like a big bully and the EU eventually either easing up and telling MS what's wrong or the EU completely complying.

For example, how many home users (outside of technical people) view Microsoft as the "Bad guy". Most people in my family think that Microsoft produces great products so I don't think that the EU is winning an y popularity contests with the general public anytime soon.

I'm curious what they mean by being given a 'vague description'.  The article is very vague about it, ironically. 

What losses can they incur, you ask?

Imagine if they never ship Vista to Europe.  Europe will be stuck with older versions of Windows which won't be maintained forever.  As their maintenance comes to an end, governments first and eventually people will be forced to look outside of Microsoft for products.  They will gradually move to Mac, Unix, and Linux.  Do you realize what an influx of millions of people would do to Linux?  Linux is BASED on the idea of community and people helping each other.  Millions of people would improve that immensly.  The quality of Windows declines with more users (vulnerabilities are more damaging, etc) while Linux improves with more users.  So I think that the free software world would see a huge improvement.  I suspect that more people in North America and Asia would follow suit.  Who knows?

[Warrior]

I think they will, the European Union isn't being very fair. They arn't even TELLING Microsoft what to do to fix Vista, basically they're giving a vague description and telling them to deal with it. I think it's Microsoft that has the cards here, not the EU. What can Microsoft lose from a Europe loss? Vista isn't going to account for ALL of it's sales and Microsoft doesnt get all of it's sales from Vista.

So let's say Microsoft bans Vista from Europe for 1 year. The amount of money lost would be probably less than 1/3rd of their annual earnings for Windows. Would it hurt? Sure it'd sting a little.

I'm all for stopping abusive monopolies but not when you dont tell them what to do to comply. The EU told MS to remove WMP from XP and they did with XP version N (or something).

This will probably end up being a PR war with Microsoft making the EU look like a big bully and the EU eventually either easing up and telling MS what's wrong or the EU completely complying.

For example, how many home users (outside of technical people) view Microsoft as the "Bad guy". Most people in my family think that Microsoft produces great products so I don't think that the EU is winning an y popularity contests with the general public anytime soon.

I'm curious what they mean by being given a 'vague description'.  The article is very vague about it, ironically. 

What losses can they incur, you ask?

Imagine if they never ship Vista to Europe.  Europe will be stuck with older versions of Windows which won't be maintained forever.  As their maintenance comes to an end, governments first and eventually people will be forced to look outside of Microsoft for products.  They will gradually move to Mac, Unix, and Linux.  Do you realize what an influx of millions of people would do to Linux?  Linux is BASED on the idea of community and people helping each other.  Millions of people would improve that immensly.  The quality of Windows declines with more users (vulnerabilities are more damaging, etc) while Linux improves with more users.  So I think that the free software world would see a huge improvement.  I suspect that more people in North America and Asia would follow suit.  Who knows?

I don't like the idea of Linux and probably never will, but if worse comes to worse Linux would probably gain some foothold if in the years (Remember Microsoft has a pretty long OS maintenence timeline) Vista or it's sucesssor is still not released. I think either Microsoft or EU will break as a result of this.

Additionally:

Meanwhile, four British members of the European Parliament wrote to the commission, urging it not to risk putting "European companies at a competitive disadvantage" by forcing another standoff with Microsoft

Source: http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060908-074032-4757r

Ouch.

[MyndFyre]

I'm curious what they mean by being given a 'vague description'.  The article is very vague about it, ironically. 

What losses can they incur, you ask?

Imagine if they never ship Vista to Europe.  Europe will be stuck with older versions of Windows which won't be maintained forever.  As their maintenance comes to an end, governments first and eventually people will be forced to look outside of Microsoft for products.  They will gradually move to Mac, Unix, and Linux.  Do you realize what an influx of millions of people would do to Linux?  Linux is BASED on the idea of community and people helping each other.  Millions of people would improve that immensly.  The quality of Windows declines with more users (vulnerabilities are more damaging, etc) while Linux improves with more users.  So I think that the free software world would see a huge improvement.  I suspect that more people in North America and Asia would follow suit.  Who knows?

I don't think that the "free software" mentality would really be able to last in the broader market.  Companies won't want to compile using GNU licensing, as is fairly apparent (you have the free software people, and then you have the non-free software people who use things like BSD or commercial license).  Intellectual property is too important for companies to just surrender their rights by going with "free" software.

MySQL is the only company that seem to have that under control, but I don't have any data on their marketshare or how they enforce it.  Do they sue entities that use MySQL for commercial purposes without a valid license?

[iago]

I don't think that the "free software" mentality would really be able to last in the broader market.  Companies won't want to compile using GNU licensing, as is fairly apparent (you have the free software people, and then you have the non-free software people who use things like BSD or commercial license).  Intellectual property is too important for companies to just surrender their rights by going with "free" software.

MySQL is the only company that seem to have that under control, but I don't have any data on their marketshare or how they enforce it.  Do they sue entities that use MySQL for commercial purposes without a valid license?

I don't see how using Linux would threaten a company's intellectual property in any way.  Just because I write a document on Linux doesn't mean I have to share it.  Just because I write a program that uses PHP/MySQL, doesn't mean I have to share it.  Using the tools is different than creating derivative works.  If I modify MySQL and turn it into a different program, then I can get in trouble. 

I can understand why some companies would be wary of using GNU tools.  That's fine, they can use FreeBSD or OpenBSD or whatever if they want to.  They can even use Mac for desktop systems.  I think that Windows not being sold in Europe would encourage development of better office tools and anything else that Linux is lacking to be as usable in an office environment as Windows.  But that's just me

[Warrior]

I really don't think anything can match Office 12, although I do think that OO is a good alternative to those not needing the power of Office 12. It's a great suite and I've used it numerous times for projects when I didnt have Office installed.