John Kerry: What a ... I dunno

[CrAz3D]

Kerry calls troops stupid:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061031/ap_on_go_pr_wh/white_house_kerry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

Kerry calls it a botched joke:

I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq.

The troops' response:



Personally, I'm not sure.  Maybe it was a lame jab at Bush, maybe not.  I think saying that Bush didn't study/make an effort to be smart is a stretch, but whatever.
People say crazy things, either way wouldn't really surprise me.

[iago]

On my first read, and subsequent reads, it sounded to me like he was making fun of Bush.  Bush got the country stuck in Iraq, the troops didn't.

[CrAz3D]

On my first read, and subsequent reads, it sounded to me like he was making fun of Bush.  Bush got the country stuck in Iraq, the troops didn't.

When you listen to what he said & take it just as-is, he is obviously knocking the troops.  Otherwise, yeah, if you read what was supposed to be his script/speech he is poking at Bush.

Maybe its a Freudian slip & he really believes it?

[SNiFFeR]

On my first read, and subsequent reads, it sounded to me like he was making fun of Bush.  Bush got the country stuck in Iraq, the troops didn't.

I agree.

[iago]

On my first read, and subsequent reads, it sounded to me like he was making fun of Bush.  Bush got the country stuck in Iraq, the troops didn't.

When you listen to what he said & take it just as-is, he is obviously knocking the troops.  Otherwise, yeah, if you read what was supposed to be his script/speech he is poking at Bush.

Maybe its a Freudian slip & he really believes it?

Maybe he said it wrong, but there's no way a Bush supporter can hold THAT against somebody -- Bush is the king of saying the wrong thing.

[CrAz3D]

On my first read, and subsequent reads, it sounded to me like he was making fun of Bush.  Bush got the country stuck in Iraq, the troops didn't.

When you listen to what he said & take it just as-is, he is obviously knocking the troops.  Otherwise, yeah, if you read what was supposed to be his script/speech he is poking at Bush.

Maybe its a Freudian slip & he really believes it?

Maybe he said it wrong, but there's no way a Bush supporter can hold THAT against somebody -- Bush is the king of saying the wrong thing.

Agreed.
But I bet it takes alot of look away from Foley

[Hitmen]

While I tend to lean just a tad liberal, and I really don't care what he said, I hope it really affects the guy's political career. He's just not exactly the kind of guy I want representing my state in the senate. Either is Kennedy, for that matter. Douchebags.

[trust]

Sure Bush has made slipups but it's usually a mispronunciation or something, he doesn't call those out there dying for our country stupid.

[iago]

Sure Bush has made slipups but it's usually a mispronunciation or something, he doesn't call those out there dying for our country stupid.

Read what Kerry said.  He didn't say that either, at least, not on purpose.  If he did come off that way (I'm at work, can't view the video), then I doubt it was intentional. 


But Hitmen is right, though -- Kerry sucks at life.  The democrats need somebody good if they want any respect. 

[trust]

What Kerry actually said was:

"You know, education..if you make the most of it, study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart...you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."

[iago]

What Kerry actually said was:

"You know, education..if you make the most of it, study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart...you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."

So that's not at all saying that "dumb people get stuck in Iraq", he said "you can do well if you don't get stuck in Iraq" -- all that seems to say is that the troops in Iraq aren't given a fair chance, which doesn't seem so bad. 

How did you and Crazed have different quotes?  Like I said, I didn't watch anything, so I don't know exactly what he said.. are those two different parts?

[trust]

Wait did you not read what I put? Kerry said "[if you don't do well in school], you get stuck in Iraq." It's cause and effect, those who don't do well in school end up in the military. It's essentially calling our military men and women uneducated.

What CrAz3D put in his quote (as shown by the bold title) is what Kerry's script said, and was what he was SUPPOSED to read. His supposed intention was to make fun of Bush, calling him uneducated and getting us "stuck in Iraq" due to his lack of education. It's funny that way as well, seeing as Kerry did worse at Yale than Bush.

[rabbit]

They are both fucktards, so I don't care much.  I want a president who didn't graduate from Yale/Harvard/etc... because his daddy has far too much money.  I want someone who graduated cause they were smart.

[iago]

Wait did you not read what I put? Kerry said "[if you don't do well in school], you get stuck in Iraq." It's cause and effect, those who don't do well in school end up in the military. It's essentially calling our military men and women uneducated.

Yes, I did read it.  And no, that's not what he said.  Correct me if I'm wrong here, but he said, according to your quote, "[.....] you can do well.. if you don't get stuck in Iraq" and NOT, "if you don't do well, you'll get stuck in Iraq".  Or am I missing something else?  It seems to me that, in what you're saying, you're moving the "if" to the other half of the sentence, reversing the cause/effect.

What CrAz3D put in his quote (as shown by the bold title) is what Kerry's script said, and was what he was SUPPOSED to read. His supposed intention was to make fun of Bush, calling him uneducated and getting us "stuck in Iraq" due to his lack of education. It's funny that way as well, seeing as Kerry did worse at Yale than Bush.

Ah, ok.  But I disagree with his intention.  It sounded to me like he was making fun of Bush for getting the young people stuck in Iraq.  "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq." -- the soldiers didn't get themselves stuck in Iraq, Bush got them stuck in Iraq. The "us" is a very important word in that sentence.

[CrAz3D]

I think trust's quote is a bit off...

But yeah, supposedly he was just knocking Bush, which is low but not as low as knocking the troops.  What confuses me is why even is even talking.  He isn't up for any election.  He can't be helping get other people elected since he lost the presidential race (& also sucks at speaking, obviously more so than Bush does).
Kerry, wow.


As far as people from ivy leagues that just got through because they had money, I'd like to see a hardcore America dude become president.  Just a regular dude that has the work ethic to get stuff done right.

[Rule]

But Hitmen is right, though -- Kerry sucks at life.  The democrats need somebody good if they want any respect. 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Edit: Also, most of you suck at logical reasoning, and that's why you're so easily manipulated by political spin.  He said if you don't do well in school you're more likely to get stuck in Iraq (I just watched the video), (which I'm sure is true from the statistics), and further, this does not imply that those in Iraq did not do well in school.  THINK ABOUT IT.

[dark_drake]

As far as people from ivy leagues that just got through because they had money, I'd like to see a hardcore America dude become president.  Just a regular dude that has the work ethic to get stuff done right.

That is virtually impossible in our wonderful system.

[trust]

I think trust's quote is a bit off...

It's not, I typed it while watching the video.

iago: Watch the video, it's clear where the if lies.

[CrAz3D]

But Hitmen is right, though -- Kerry sucks at life.  The democrats need somebody good if they want any respect. 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Edit: Also, most of you suck at logical reasoning, and that's why you're so easily manipulated by political spin.  He said if you don't do well in school you're more likely to get stuck in Iraq (I just watched the video), (which I'm sure is true from the statistics), and further, this does not imply that those in Iraq did not do well in school.  THINK ABOUT IT.

Either way, it sounds bad.

"The troops in Iraq suck @ school"
"People that suck @ school join the army"
Both sound bad.

[MyndFyre]

So that's not at all saying that "dumb people get stuck in Iraq", he said "you can do well if you don't get stuck in Iraq" -- all that seems to say is that the troops in Iraq aren't given a fair chance, which doesn't seem so bad. 

No, he said "if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."  That means, if you don't make it in the "educated" world, you get stuck in Iraq.

[rabbit]

But Hitmen is right, though -- Kerry sucks at life.  The democrats need somebody good if they want any respect. 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Edit: Also, most of you suck at logical reasoning, and that's why you're so easily manipulated by political spin.  He said if you don't do well in school you're more likely to get stuck in Iraq (I just watched the video), (which I'm sure is true from the statistics), and further, this does not imply that those in Iraq did not do well in school.  THINK ABOUT IT.

Either way, it sounds bad.

"The troops in Iraq suck @ school"
"People that suck @ school join the army"
Both sound bad.

He was trying to say "those not fortunate enough to have their parents pay the way through Yale have a higher enlistment rate, and thus usually end up in Iraq."

[trust]

* OG Trust points out that both Bush 41 and Bush 43, and even Kerry were in the service.

(All were Yale graduates and in the same fraternity (Skull and Bones))

[CrAz3D]

But Hitmen is right, though -- Kerry sucks at life.  The democrats need somebody good if they want any respect. 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Edit: Also, most of you suck at logical reasoning, and that's why you're so easily manipulated by political spin.  He said if you don't do well in school you're more likely to get stuck in Iraq (I just watched the video), (which I'm sure is true from the statistics), and further, this does not imply that those in Iraq did not do well in school.  THINK ABOUT IT.

Either way, it sounds bad.

"The troops in Iraq suck @ school"
"People that suck @ school join the army"
Both sound bad.

He was trying to say "those not fortunate enough to have their parents pay the way through Yale have a higher enlistment rate, and thus usually end up in Iraq."

I know VERY few people who can afford Yale...they aren't in the service.  We dont usually end up in iraq

[leet_muffin]

Well, the Daily Show cleared everything up, and you're all correct. The script said (paraphrasing) If you don't go to school and get good grades and all that, you end up getting us stuck in Iraq, just ask president Bush. Obviously bashing Bush, not the troops. He said (paraphrasing) If you don't go to school and get good grades and all that, you end up stuck in Iraq. Obviously bashing troops, not Bush.

[iago]

So that's not at all saying that "dumb people get stuck in Iraq", he said "you can do well if you don't get stuck in Iraq" -- all that seems to say is that the troops in Iraq aren't given a fair chance, which doesn't seem so bad. 

No, he said "if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."  That means, if you don't make it in the "educated" world, you get stuck in Iraq.

That's neither in the quote that either Trust or Crazed posted... but ok

[MyndFyre]

So that's not at all saying that "dumb people get stuck in Iraq", he said "you can do well if you don't get stuck in Iraq" -- all that seems to say is that the troops in Iraq aren't given a fair chance, which doesn't seem so bad. 

No, he said "if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."  That means, if you don't make it in the "educated" world, you get stuck in Iraq.

That's neither in the quote that either Trust or Crazed posted... but ok

No?  I suggest you take another look at the quote that Trust posted.  So you don't have to return to page 1, here it is:

What Kerry actually said was:

"You know, education..if you make the most of it, study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart...you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."

Emphasis added. 

[iago]

"You know, education..if you make the most of it, study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart...you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."

Emphasis added. 

Well, that gets tricky.  The way it's stated makes no sense (I don't think?), so you have to sort of modify the sentence to make sense. 

I dropped the 'you' without thinking, getting "you can do well, if you don't get stuck in Iraq".

I suppose you can extend the second you to 'yourself' making it, "you can do well, if you don't get yourself stuck in Iraq" -- although that is still ambiguous.  It still doesn't sound like he's saying that you're dumb if you get stuck in Iraq, at least to me.  It sounds like he's putting down the Iraq war, for sure, but not necessarily calling people there dumb.  But it's fairly ambiguous, I can see it being taken either way by either side.

[disco]

I, for one, am choosing to interpret this quote as blatant racism against the Iraqi people! 

Although it is an effective "stay in school" slogan, I can see the D.A.R.E. sponsored commercials now...

Go to college, get an education, end up here:



But drop out of highschool, and end up here:

[trust]

iago, just watch the video.

[CrAz3D]

"You know, education..if you make the most of it, study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart...you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."

Emphasis added. 

Well, that gets tricky.  The way it's stated makes no sense (I don't think?), so you have to sort of modify the sentence to make sense. 

I dropped the 'you' without thinking, getting "you can do well, if you don't get stuck in Iraq".

I suppose you can extend the second you to 'yourself' making it, "you can do well, if you don't get yourself stuck in Iraq" -- although that is still ambiguous.  It still doesn't sound like he's saying that you're dumb if you get stuck in Iraq, at least to me.  It sounds like he's putting down the Iraq war, for sure, but not necessarily calling people there dumb.  But it's fairly ambiguous, I can see it being taken either way by either side.

iago, you know you're just lookin for stuff to pick at. 
Everyone else has acknowledged Kerry said something that makes him look like a complete fool, not that he isn't of course.  Also, I believe most people have accepted that it might have been a failed attempt at a distasteful joke (especially considering Bush did better than Kerry in school & beat Kerry in the presidential election)

[iago]

iago, you know you're just lookin for stuff to pick at. 
Everyone else has acknowledged Kerry said something that makes him look like a complete fool, not that he isn't of course.  Also, I believe most people have accepted that it might have been a failed attempt at a distasteful joke (especially considering Bush did better than Kerry in school & beat Kerry in the presidential election)

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to defend Kerry.  I don't care about him.  I just don't see anything bad from the quotes I've seen.  Like I said, at worst, it's ambiguous. 

It doesn't really matter, though.. this whole thing is pretty meaningless.  Why did you post it, again?  Most people here aren't even voting age, and this isn't going to change anybody's minds.

[trust]

It doesn't really matter, though.. this whole thing is pretty meaningless.  Why did you post it, again?  Most people here aren't even voting age, and this isn't going to change anybody's minds.

So? Government affects everybody. I don't think posting a new blue screen is interesting, nor do I think it affects me. Most people here probably don't care, and they probably won't care after looking at it...but you still posted it.

[rabbit]

The blue screen thread is in his personal forum.  If you don't want to see iago's personal opinions, don't go there.  The General forum is for general stuff.  Besides, it doesn't matter what Kerry said.  He's a douchebag.  End of story.

[trust]

The blue screen thread is in his personal forum.  If you don't want to see iago's personal opinions, don't go there.  The General forum is for general stuff.  Besides, it doesn't matter what Kerry said.  He's a douchebag.  End of story.

Point taken. So, in that case, I don't care about the size of his databases. I'm pretty sure most people agree that it's not really important and it probably doesn't affect them that much. So, wait, why did he post it again?

The point is just because people here can't vote doesn't mean it shouldn't be posted. I don't care about the majority of the computer related stuff posted here, but I still visit. iago probably doesn't care about the political stuff, but he still visits.

[Hitmen]

I think this whole thing is just a GOP rally cry for the support of ignorant people. Anyone with half a brain, even the president of this country, knows exactly what Kerry was trying to say. While I've said before in this thread I think Kerry is a douche, I do not think he would ever insult this country's troops. He served in Vietnam. He knows what it's like to be thrown into something like that. Does bush? Nope. I do not know where the hell he believes it is his right to accuse a veteran of insulting the troops when it was obviously a jab at him. If it made him cry and he felt the need to lash out, great, but putting words into his mouth is not the right way to go about it.

[trust]

I don't think any words were put into his mouth, seeing as how he actually said it. Regardless of what was meant to be said, it was said. I understand that he meant to make a jab at our Commander in Chief (which in my opinion is just as bad) but the point is it isn't OK to say things like that. It's just like when George Allen called that guy a Macacca. It was a joke, but it was still offensive and he's still receiving backlash for it which could hurt him in the midterm elections and in the presidential election.

Furthermore Kerry's intended remarks were just as unfounded. Bush was a veteran as well, not to mention Kerry's schoolmate. Bush was educated at one of the most prestigious high schools in the world, and at the top two colleges in the country (Yale and later Harvard, which he switched to for grad school as Yale was too liberal for his liking.) And even past that, Kerry has no room to talk as he performed worse in school than Bush.

[iago]

It's not that I don't want anything about politics.  It's often interesting (or depressing). 

But I don't care if Kerry insulted the troops, intentionally or accidentally.  And I don't think too many others would, either. 

If he insulted the troops, it was an accident.  And like I said originally, Bush is the king of saying things by accident!

And incidentally, being educated at a prestigious school doesn't make somebody smarter or better, it means that they were richer (unless they had a scholarship, but I don't think that counts).  But I suspect that's a wholly different topic...

[CrAz3D]

Agreed Bush has made up some odd stuff, but nothing like this.

Also, that Kerry would make a joke about Bush's intelligence is amusing simply because Bush did better in school.
So I guess if you fail to navigate the educational system you get (us) stuck in Iraq then you must suck at life if you lose the presidency to a person who failed to navigate the educational system.

[trust]

Plus Kerry was on the Senate advisory council for Iraq (during the WMD investigation.) So I guess, in essence, he got us stuck there too?

Somebody should make him some waffles.

[rabbit]

Kerry does not deserve waffles.