Microsoft Firefox Professional??

[Killer360]

What the hell?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/14/ms_firefox/

http://www.msfirefox.com/download-microsoft-firefox.html
 

[rabbit]

ROFL!!  The first one says

Microsoft has made some improvements to the product, and the new features offered to Firefox fans include:
[...]
Tabbed browsing
[...]
Delete browsing history

BAHAHA!!

[Joe]

I almost thought this was legit.. LOL.

[Killer360]

Edit:

Lawl, yeah.

[Joe]

No, it's some guy trying to make microsoft uncool.

[Killer360]

No, it's some guy trying to make microsoft uncool.

Which is a good thing. 

[Miamiandy]

No, it's some guy trying to make microsoft uncool.

Microsoft was cool to begin with??

[Warrior]

No, uncool companies own 95% of the operating system world.

On a better note: What browser does the download link actually download? IE7?

[Joe]

Yeah, IE7.

[Miamiandy]

At least they got it right, IE7 is blatantly copying firefox.

BTW, did any of you hear the fact that after the release of Firefox 2.0, Microsoft sent Mozilla a rather bleak looking congratulatory cake. I'll post a link to the article as soon as I can find where it was again...

[Sidoh]

At least they got it right, IE7 is blatantly copying firefox.

BTW, did any of you hear the fact that after the release of Firefox 2.0, Microsoft sent Mozilla a rather bleak looking congratulatory cake. I'll post a link to the article as soon as I can find where it was again...

Why didn't those bastards send Opera a cake after Opera 90.2 was released?

[Miamiandy]

I dunno. But I found the link.

http://fredericiana.com/2006/10/24/from-redmond-with-love/

[MyndFyre]

At least they got it right, IE7 is blatantly copying firefox.

Yeah, god, businesses and hobbyist programmers should absolutely *never* use software ideas that the market has show to approve of or that have proven popular.   

Guess you're trying to demonstrate that you're an idiot right off the starting line?

[Miamiandy]

I'm not saying they shouldn't use successful ideas, I'm saying that they should add some creativity there so it doesn't appear to be quite a blatant copy.

[Chavo]

Oh, you mean like putting the tabs on the bottom instead of the top?  There's only so much creativity you can put into a simple idea...

[Joe]

I personally don't think that IE7 is a blantant copy of Firefox, although it does have a lot of the features. It's still IE enough to make he download and run Firefox over Vista, though.

[Miamiandy]

Or maybe do what firefox did in the first place which was come up with a new idea to impleament instead of just stealing them all from other companies' successes.

[Sidoh]

I'm not saying they shouldn't use successful ideas, I'm saying that they should add some creativity there so it doesn't appear to be quite a blatant copy.

Look at three tabbed browsers, ie: opera, firefox, mozila.  See much difference?  They're clearly sending spies to copy one companies ideas, but who?!  I say opera.  It's always the little guy.

[Miamiandy]

I know but if you compare IE to Firefox, they even stole some of Firefox's logos... Logos that were made for firefox. Not icons that were general for the object.

[Sidoh]

I know but if you compare IE to Firefox, they even stole some of Firefox's logos...

Somehow I doubt that.  Plus, it's not like it makes a difference...

[Chavo]

I'm not saying they shouldn't use successful ideas, I'm saying that they should add some creativity there so it doesn't appear to be quite a blatant copy.

Look at three tabbed browsers, ie: opera, firefox, mozila.  See much difference?  They're clearly sending spies to copy one companies ideas, but who?!  I say opera.  It's always the little guy.

lol, fucking spies

[Miamiandy]

It doesn't make a difference but the rss feed logo was what was stolen. The one Firefox uses was made by them for RSS. It wasn't universal until Firefox made it so

[Sidoh]

It doesn't make a difference but the rss feed logo was what was stolen. The one Firefox uses was made by them for RSS. It wasn't universal until Firefox made it so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS_(file_format)

It seems to be their official logo... what's wrong with implementing standards?  I thought we'd all agreed Microsoft needed more of that.  If they make IE8 W3C compliant, will you whine because they copied Opera?

[Miamiandy]

In December 2005, the Microsoft IE team and Outlook team announced in their blogs that they will be adopting the feed icon first used in the Mozilla Firefox browser , effectively making the orange square with white radio waves the industry standard for both RSS and related formats such as Atom. Also in February 2006, Opera Software announced they too will add the orange square in their next release of Opera 9.

That idea is perfectly reasonable I understand.Copying a logo to make it universal.

But when IE7 implemented tabbed browsing it works EXACTLY like firefox's does. Right down to the keyboard shortcuts.

[Sidoh]

That idea is perfectly reasonable I understand.Copying a logo to make it universal.

But when IE7 implemented tabbed browsing it works EXACTLY like firefox's does. Right down to the keyboard shortcuts.

Again, what's wrong with making things standard?  Doing stupid things like that to make a program "unique" is dumb.  It sort of reminds me of the color codes they used for PS/2 ports for a while.  Gateway did their own thing, dell had their own combination, etc.  It was like a rainbow!  It didn't work very well.

I think making key shortcuts standard is a really good idea.

[MyndFyre]

But when IE7 implemented tabbed browsing it works EXACTLY like firefox's does. Right down to the keyboard shortcuts.

Like what, Ctrl+Tab?  You realize that Ctrl+Tab has been the *Windows* shortcut for switchiing windows *within* one program since Windows 3.0, right?  On any Windows program that could be considered MDI, Ctrl+Tab has been the standard for switching MDI children.

Also, and this is just an FYI, Firefox was released to 1.0 in November, 2004.  Microsoft Visual Studio was already using the tabbed browsing paradigm for 2 years in the source code editor.  Firefox must have copied Visual Studio!   

You're not making your case, I hope you realize.  As unTactical pointed out, there's nothing wrong with reimplementing features (otherwise there wouldn't be such a thing as an open-source movement, where not only features but the code behind features is copied), especially when they have proven to work in the past.  It's an insult to anyone who has ever written software and taken inspiration from someone else's work that you say that they shouldn't "copy" features from other things.

Or maybe do what firefox did in the first place which was come up with a new idea to impleament instead of just stealing them all from other companies' successes.

You're right, they didn't implement an HTML browser, they didn't include RSS (which was not a Mozilla-developed standard), they didn't include support for XML....
 

[Warrior]

Just so you know, Mozilla and Microsoft collaborated on their browsers (FF 2.0 and IE7.0) in things like RSS Feeds in Windows Vista, the RSS icon, Anti Phishing Filters, etc..

If you want more information watch some of the Channel9 interviews with the IE7 team.

[Miamiandy]

I'm all for standards. But, Microsoft prides itself in setting them. They picture themselves the leaders. They are finally realizing they don't own all by realizing that others can do decent stuff too.

Microsoft sending a congratulations cake seems more like Microsoft is thinking themselves as the leader again. The cake gives the appearance of them being asses, giving them a cake congratulating them.

[Sidoh]

I'm all for standards. But, Microsoft prides itself in setting them. They picture themselves the leaders. They are finally realizing they don't own all by realizing that others can do decent stuff too.

Microsoft sending a congratulations cake seems more like Microsoft is thinking themselves as the leader again. The cake gives the appearance of them being asses, giving them a cake congratulating them.

Microsoft prides themselves in setting standards?  I think that's a fallable assumption -- especially when you're applying it to something like this.  You whine when Microsoft implements some stupid alternative standard, but you whine when they conform to the norm?  That seems pretty silly.

You're speculating.  Maybe they were sincere when they sent the cake.  It was stupid anyway... I don't see how it implies that anyone is rubbing their nose in someone elses' face.

[Warrior]

I'm all for standards. But, Microsoft prides itself in setting them. They picture themselves the leaders. They are finally realizing they don't own all by realizing that others can do decent stuff too.

Microsoft sending a congratulations cake seems more like Microsoft is thinking themselves as the leader again. The cake gives the appearance of them being asses, giving them a cake congratulating them.

Microsoft prides themselves in setting standards?  I think that's a fallable assumption -- especially when you're applying it to something like this.  You whine when Microsoft implements some stupid alternative standard, but you whine when they conform to the norm?  That seems pretty silly.

You're speculating.  Maybe they were sincere when they sent the cake.  It was stupid anyway... I don't see how it implies that anyone is rubbing their nose in someone elses' face.

I thought of the cake as a nice gesture and expected something of the like. Really you should read the videos to see how closely they collaborated.

just FYI: This isn't aimed at Sidoh, I'm just quoting him and building on his points.

[Joe]

In December 2005, the Microsoft IE team and Outlook team announced in their blogs that they will be adopting the feed icon first used in the Mozilla Firefox browser , effectively making the orange square with white radio waves the industry standard for both RSS and related formats such as Atom. Also in February 2006, Opera Software announced they too will add the orange square in their next release of Opera 9.

That idea is perfectly reasonable I understand.Copying a logo to make it universal.

But when IE7 implemented tabbed browsing it works EXACTLY like firefox's does. Right down to the keyboard shortcuts.

Are you going to tell me that Ctrl+T doesn't make sense for new tab? In fact, Safari just plain pissed me off with whatever they used (Alt+T or whatever). It's too hard to remember. Besides, I don't see you saying that Firefox copied MS Word with the shortcut for Ctrl+S being to save something.

Note: I'm not trying to show support to IE7 - I just want the arguments against it to be good!

[Miamiandy]

I guess keyboard shortcuts were a bad example. But as a whole when I first saw IE7 it appeared to me to be just a slightly lacking version of Firefox. That is to say, firefox without all the extensions that I have and such. I'm personally going to stick with firefox.

[Sidoh]

I guess keyboard shortcuts were a bad example. But as a whole when I first saw IE7 it appeared to me to be just a slightly lacking version of Firefox. That is to say, firefox without all the extensions that I have and such. I'm personally going to stick with firefox.

No one is trying to convince you to use IE7 or even that IE7 is a good browser.  That is pretty much irrelevant to the argument...

[Miamiandy]

Here is a quote from a reliable source. "IE7 is bullshit."

[Sidoh]

Here is a quote from a reliable source. "IE7 is bullshit."

Again, the quality of the product is completely irrelevant to the argument.  If you want to bash on it, at least provide some more viable reasoning.

[Miamiandy]

It is a now just a lame copy of Firefox. It just tired to copy firefox. However, it is a insufficient copy. It is lacking and Firefox is by far better. It has more options and the ability to add plug ins to make it more customizable to your pleasure. As well as themes.

[Chavo]

 

For the record, I'm a Firefox user.

[Sidoh]

It is a now just a lame copy of Firefox. It just tired to copy firefox. However, it is a insufficient copy. It is lacking and Firefox is by far better. It has more options and the ability to add plug ins to make it more customizable to your pleasure. As well as themes.

Okay, maybe if I put it in bold letters you'll get it:

No one is arguing that IE7 is a better internet browser than FireFox.

The fact is, though, the majority of the people who use the internet use Internet Explorer.  If Microsoft improves the product, they should be commended, not bad mouthed because they could have done better.

[Chavo]

Maybe if you use pi to graph it....

[Sidoh]

LOL

[Miamiandy]

The reason why internet explorer is the most used program is only because it comes with windows. Though for some reason, some people have internet explorer on a Mac. Go figure.

[Sidoh]

The reason why internet explorer is the most used program is only because it comes with windows. Though for some reason, some people have internet explorer on a Mac. Go figure.

Thank you for endowing us with your wisdom.  </sarcasm>

Everyone knows that.  I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, but at the moment, it's not much of anything, it seems.

[MyndFyre]

It is a now just a lame copy of Firefox. It just tired to copy firefox. However, it is a insufficient copy. It is lacking and Firefox is by far better. It has more options and the ability to add plug ins to make it more customizable to your pleasure. As well as themes.

Plugins you say?  Weird, I have plugins for IE... Acrobat, Flash, the IE Developer Toolbar...

[Miamiandy]

Plugins were refering to user customized stuff like, fireftp, fasterfox, google previer, forecastfox, tab catalog, gmail manager, IE Tab, All-in-One Sidebar, and others. And also, custom themes to appeal to the user such as noia or walnut.

[Warrior]

Plugins were refering to user customized stuff like, fireftp, fasterfox, google previer, forecastfox, tab catalog, gmail manager, IE Tab, All-in-One Sidebar, and others. And also, custom themes to appeal to the user such as noia or walnut.

Look into IE7 Addons, Microsoft even has an official community site.

[Chavo]

Now you've really done it.  The Microsoft zealots have awaken! 

[Miamiandy]

Look into IE7 Addons, Microsoft even has an official community site.

Look, Firefox has an official community site in addition to dozens of unofficial ones. I've noticed that most people who are avid computer users who actually know somewhat what they are doing all use Firefox.

[deadly7]

Now you've really done it.  The Microsoft zealots have awaken! 

Wow, I blew a gasket figuring out why that sounded terribly wrong. 

It's ok Miamiandy, Warrior won't bite... that much.

[Miamiandy]

I not worried about any bites. Microsoft makes nice stuff. They are just diversifying too much. So far, that everything is lacking in one way or another. Vista delayed is one example. If they hadn't been so focused on the xbox 360 maybe it would have come out on time.

[dark_drake]

I not worried about any bites. Microsoft makes nice stuff. They are just diversifying too much. So far, that everything is lacking in one way or another. Vista delayed is one example. If they hadn't been so focused on the xbox 360 maybe it would have come out on time.

Unless you're immune to rabies, you better be worried about being bitten by Warrior.

[Sidoh]

I not worried about any bites. Microsoft makes nice stuff. They are just diversifying too much. So far, that everything is lacking in one way or another. Vista delayed is one example. If they hadn't been so focused on the xbox 360 maybe it would have come out on time.

They're a multibillion dollar corporation... I think they have the resources to focus on more than one thing.

[MyndFyre]

Look, Firefox has an official community site in addition to dozens of unofficial ones.

Really, that's special.  So Firefox has plugins and IE has plugins.... Clearly Firefox is superior on this account!

[rabbit]

Look, Firefox has an official community site in addition to dozens of unofficial ones.

Really, that's special.  So Firefox has plugins and IE has plugins.... Clearly Firefox is superior on this account!

Well duh!

[Miamiandy]

Most of IE plugins are made by corporations while most of Firefox plugins are made by users.

[Chavo]

Most of IE plugins are made by corporations while most of Firefox plugins are made by users.

?

ok?  You aren't doing a very good job of convincing anyone of.....anything

[MyndFyre]

Most of IE plugins are made by corporations while most of Firefox plugins are made by users.

That tells me corporations think that IE is worth investing time and money in.

[Miamiandy]

That tells you that only corporations find use in IE. Corporations make plugins for BOTH firefox and IE. While the users make plugins mainly only for Firefox.

[Chavo]

Man are you digging yourself a hole.  You really should take my hints and figure out what exactly you are trying to prove.

[Sidoh]

Man are you digging yourself a hole.  You really should take my hints and figure out what exactly you are trying to prove.

You're not the only one who's been suggesting that!  Well worded.  I wonder if he was a grave digger in a past life.

[Miamiandy]

I'll stop. I'll stop. One can never win something that is partially a matter of an opinion.

[Chavo]

We don't even know what you are trying to win!

[dark_drake]

Our respect?

[Miamiandy]

I dunno. I was refering to the argument of whether or not microsoft took stuff from firefox etc. which changed to which is better etc. I'll just stop arguing.

[MyndFyre]

Just as an aside, being not really relevant to the argument logically, but I find it humorous that you seem to be so anti-Microsoft-web-product yet you're using Frontpage to make your website....

[Miamiandy]

True, I am a bit lazy. Didn't feel like making the site from scratch. The site is just for one purpose anyway. It was recommended that I make one by a counselor to help me get into college.

[Sidoh]

True, I am a bit lazy. Didn't feel like making the site from scratch. The site is just for one purpose anyway. It was recommended that I make one by a counselor to help me get into college.

I'm sure there are superior open source products, though.

[Miamiandy]

Yea, but I had MS frontpage since I had the full version of MS office with the main stuff +visio,publisher, frontpage, etc.

[Sidoh]

Yea, but I had MS frontpage since I had the full version of MS office with the main stuff +visio,publisher, frontpage, etc.

I thought they were inferior, not just expensive.

I'm joking around with you, but I seriously don't understand what you're trying to prove...

[Miamiandy]

Forget everything I said here? I don't want to prove anything anymore.

[Warrior]

I think you need to just give IE7 a chance. Don't think of it as "Copying" so much as evolution.

I congratulate Microsoft on IE7 yet I still have emailed and left comments telling them it isn't enough. It's good their taking a positive role in keeping the browser secure but they need to stop thinking they set standards and start following the already made ones.

Things like: IE7 not having a download manager, (default)inline searching, and have a counter intuitive interface is something that makes Microsoft look bad. Really, a company with resources considerably less than Microsoft seems to include all of this, why can't Microsoft?

I feel better now atleast that a majority of people will soon be rid of IE6.

[Sidoh]

Forget everything I said here? I don't want to prove anything anymore.

After what, five pages of discussion? 

[Miamiandy]

One last thing, look at the top right corner of firefox. They have the search bar. They promote searching other places. Microsoft only promotes searching MSN/Live.

[Warrior]

One last thing, look at the top right corner of firefox. They have the search bar. They promote searching other places. Microsoft only promotes searching MSN/Live.

Odd, I use Google as my search bar provider in IE7. Maybe it's just you?

[Miamiandy]

I meant that firefox has many companies that allow it to have an all in one search bar.

[Sidoh]

I meant that firefox has many companies that allow it to have an all in one search bar.

I'm sure that there's a toolbar for IE that has similar functionality... who cares?

[MyndFyre]

I meant that firefox has many companies that allow it to have an all in one search bar.

Oh, I see:

(See attachment)

[Newby]

Unless I'm mistaken, only x86 members can see attachments...

[MyndFyre]

Unless I'm mistaken, only x86 members can see attachments...

According to my research, you're mistaken.