Watch Out Newby (High-school alcohol tests)

[iago]

The school system is not a legal setting.
Their rules are only rules, not law.
A school enforcing rules outside of the classroom is something like a business firing people because they're not religious (or because they are religious).

That's great. But last time I checked, underage drinking isn't a rule, it's a law.

There are too many minors who have access to alcohol. How many people here have never touched alcohol till they're 18 (or 21, whatever)? I'd gamble that there are very few, so at some point, somebody has to start enforcing these laws, or kids grow up accustomed to breaking laws, which is never a good thing.

[CrAz3D]

The school system is not a legal setting.
Their rules are only rules, not law.
A school enforcing rules outside of the classroom is something like a business firing people because they're not religious (or because they are religious).

That's great. But last time I checked, underage drinking isn't a rule, it's a law.

...sometimes.
So long as your parents give it to you I'm pretty sure its legal (so long as you're not smashed...cause then that'd be child neglect/abuse I think).

Also, one would think that our justice system is supposed to enforce the laws...since they're laws and all.  Schools let law enforcement deal with kids breaking the law on campus (drugs, guns, whatever).

[Newby]

You got in a car (trunk, even) with a drunk driver. You could have easily been removed from the gene pool in that situation.

Drunk people are stupid. Kids are stupid. The combination is lethal.

I am not denying that. Had I been removed, life would have kept moving on.

[iago]

...sometimes.
So long as your parents give it to you I'm pretty sure its legal (so long as you're not smashed...cause then that'd be child neglect/abuse I think).

Then perhaps the school should phone the parents and ask them if they gave the alcohol to their child?

Also, one would think that our justice system is supposed to enforce the laws...since they're laws and all.  Schools let law enforcement deal with kids breaking the law on campus (drugs, guns, whatever).

The justice system needs to catch them somehow, and whatever they're currently doing obviously isn't working. They need to crack down on teenage crime, big time. You don't want people to get accustomed to breaking the law, otherwise they won't stop when they grow up. "It's a stupid law anyway" -- can justify pretty much any crime, and I'm sure it seems like a great justification at the time.

I am not denying that. Had I been removed, life would have kept moving on.

But kids are naturally stupid. They'll drink and they'll do drugs if they don't think they'll get caught. And when they do, some will die in car crashes, and others will freeze to death on their doorstep, and others will drown in a shallow pond behind their house (those last 2 have both happened recently in Winnipeg). If you can't depend on parents to enforce laws, somebody should.

[CrAz3D]

1) I dont think that the schools should be testing for alcohol like that.  We need to return to being a society of responsible persons, we're entirely too reliant upon the government to be our mommy & hold our hand.

2) What about the kids that have parents that let them drink?  Should we just disregard the notion of privacy in our private lives for the higher morality of society?

3)

[iago]

1) I dont think that the schools should be testing for alcohol like that.  We need to return to being a society of responsible persons, we're entirely too reliant upon the government to be our mommy & hold our hand.

When was society responsible again? While it was killing the Indians? Burning witches? Enslaving blacks? People aren't naturally responsible, that's why the government has to step in with laws to protect people from themselves/each other.

2) What about the kids that have parents that let them drink?  Should we just disregard the notion of privacy in our private lives for the higher morality of society?

While you're under 18, yes. Before you're an adult, you are legally the responsibility of somebody else, whether it be parents or teachers.

3)

That, I can agree with.

[CrAz3D]

Personally responsible...I should've been more clear.

...it is legal for parents to give kids booze...this has been stated before.

[dark_drake]

They are talking about the principle of the thing (they aren't showing up drunk, AFAIK).  Being tested by your school to see if you got hammered Friday night is an invasion of privacy.

I don't think a single kid in my school that was tested for drugs showed up to school high, but they still tested them.  The only person I can remember here bitching about drug tests was Gamesnake.

The problem I see here is that far too many people think it's acceptable to break a law that they deem inconvenient. What other laws will a person deem inconvenient as he gets older? Really, the way I see it is if one law can be deemed unimportant, any law can be.

1) I dont think that the schools should be testing for alcohol like that.  We need to return to being a society of responsible persons, we're entirely too reliant upon the government to be our mommy & hold our hand.

I think we need to be a society of responsible persons. Unfortunately, not very many people are being very responsible about following the laws in this country.  People need to be held accountable for their actions. However, minors drink, think it's great, and learn absolutely nothing; that's why they need to be punished.

2) What about the kids that have parents that let them drink?  Should we just disregard the notion of privacy in our private lives for the higher morality of society?

The parents will tell the school/law enforcement that they allowed their child to drink.  Seriously, though, how many times have your parents been with you giving you the alcohol to make it legal? I really think that the school has this right; they're trying to protect the students. 

[CrAz3D]

When I was little my dad gave me beer occasionally.  Wine at dinner sometimes.
Never drunk though, that'd be abuse.

The schools are just perpetuating the problem of Big Broher.

[trust]

While it's the schools right, I think this is kind of dumb.

[Towelie]

I'd gamble that there are very few, so at some point, somebody has to start enforcing these laws, or kids grow up accustomed to breaking laws, which is never a good thing.

Could you tell me how they could enforce this law without invading the privacy of people's lives?

[iago]

I'd gamble that there are very few, so at some point, somebody has to start enforcing these laws, or kids grow up accustomed to breaking laws, which is never a good thing.

Could you tell me how they could enforce this law without invading the privacy of people's lives?

I already said, if you're under 18  you don't deserve privacy. You're under the care of either parents or guardians or teachers or something. Whoever's looking after you should have every right to invade your "privacy" -- when you grow up, and you're in charge of yourself, then you should have privacy.

[iago]

The schools are just perpetuating the problem of Big Broher.

Not "Big Brother", "Big Parent" -- and like I said, parents have every right to look after their children.

[Towelie]

I'd gamble that there are very few, so at some point, somebody has to start enforcing these laws, or kids grow up accustomed to breaking laws, which is never a good thing.

Could you tell me how they could enforce this law without invading the privacy of people's lives?

I already said, if you're under 18  you don't deserve privacy. You're under the care of either parents or guardians or teachers or something. Whoever's looking after you should have every right to invade your "privacy" -- when you grow up, and you're in charge of yourself, then you should have privacy.

Ok, that is your parent's responsibility. I am saying how can they enforce it through the GOVERNMENT? That is the only way it will be fully enforced.

[Quik]

So, iago.. I'm somewhat curious. Do you support the enforcing of this purely, as your arguement states, because there is too much underage lawbreaking? Are you trying to say that older generations never broke laws, and since society has deteriorated so far as letting high school students drink alcohol on weekends, we need to do something extreme like this?