Microsoft vs The Free World

[iago]

....ideas are built off of, not patented. You credit the discoverer (as the Platonists would say) or the inventor (so the Formalists would say). But you don't fucking patent it. I really do dislike business -.- but I do admit to being ignorant about it and that my thoughts on business may consequentially change.

Legally, you can't patent ideas, either. However, in the 80's, some stupid US court ruled that it was ok to patent algorithms/software. Possibly one of the worst decisions ever made.

[Joe]

Microsoft stole the ability for a window to overlap another window from Apple. I'm not even joking. Look at Windows 1.

Wrong. Yet again.

I'm almost with whoever it was you were debating with in the OT forum. Where's your citation?

Here's mine:

[Newby]

Here's mine:
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Windows1screen.png[/img]

That's not overlapping. As far as I can tell, you can see the bottom of the top window and top of the bottom window clearly.

Also, where's your source that Apple had this before? And that a GUI for UNIX didn't have it before Apple?

[Warrior]

Microsoft stole the ability for a window to overlap another window from Apple. I'm not even joking. Look at Windows 1.

Wrong. Yet again.

I'm almost with whoever it was you were debating with in the OT forum. Where's your citation?

Here's mine:

Windows 2.0 (as ruled by a Federal Court) had licensed code from Apple (in which Microsoft was deeply involved in pre-Windows).
In fact, Windows stemmed from the fact that Apple did not want to make an agreement with Microsoft who wrote applications for the Mac.

In fact, without Microsoft, Mac would never have had the productivity suites to make it a contender in corporate Markets.

It was ruled that the Mac user interface was an idea (and an obvious one at that) which could not be copyrighted.

Moving on to the bigger issue, despite patents Microsoft could not have stolen code is played an active part in writing. It had licensed it for Windows 1.x and was ruled that it was licensed for 2.x as well.

As an outcome of that lawsuite, Apple then lost the ability to claim any sort of ownership over overlapping Windows.

Are you done being a smartass yet?

[Warrior]

LOL... like Microsoft didn't steal from Apple

What have they stolen from Apple?

?

I'd like to see some solid proof here.

Sorry, first time checking this thread since I posted.

(1) Apple made the first GUI (http://imrl.usu.edu/OSLO/technology_writing/004_003.htm)
(2) MS ripped off Netscape in IE
(3) I believe MS just made an iTunes equivalent, which many people are complaining about

Besides, only in the corporate world are there such things as "patents". In academia, ideas are built off of, not patented. You credit the discoverer (as the Platonists would say) or the inventor (so the Formalists would say). But you don't fucking patent it. I really do dislike business -.- but I do admit to being ignorant about it and that my thoughts on business may consequentially change.

I really don't care about Microsoft taking ideas from Apple... what I do care about is when Microsoft sues others for taking ideas from them, when MS does the same...

Read the post I directed at Joe as well.

[Joe]

Apple's GUI was made first. Also, look at this:

iPod came before the Zune.

iTunes came before the advanced versions of Windows Media Player, which exibit the same features.

OS X's UI came before Aero, which exhibits the same sort of 3-D look ad feel.

iTunes' Music Store came before Microsoft's Music Store.

.Mac came before Live.

Am I missing anything?

EDIT -
I'm not sure how much these are related since I did very minimal Mac programming, but Cocoa came before .NET, and if I remember correctly it supports both the C and J families.

Also, how am I a smartass for advocating against you? You get angry far too easily to be any fun to debate with. If you honestly think I'm trying to make you look like a moron, you're wrong -- I'm trying to make you realize my point.

[Warrior]

Apple's GUI was made first. Also, look at this:

And? Who has the marketshare now? Ok.

iPod came before the Zune.

Don't compare an iPod to a Zune. The Zune is leaps ahead of it in terms of useability (especially in the user interface)

iTunes came before the advanced versions of Windows Media Player, which exibit the same features.

iTunes was PURCHASED from another company dipshit.

OS X's UI came before Aero, which exhibits the same sort of 3-D look ad feel.

Aero prototypes were shown off before at WinHEC (and doing better features) than Aqua(with Quartz3D/Extreme/Bullshit).
Aero was doing 3D when Aqua was just compositing the desktop then blitting it with fancy effects.

iTunes' Music Store came before Microsoft's Music Store.

I'm sure there were Music stores before iTunes.

.Mac came before Live.

Live sucks, but it doesn't suck as hard as .Mac. Also, Live is not one specific entity, it's a new brand with an arch of "Web2.0" style applications for use on the Web. (This is more comparable to Google than .Mac to be honest)

Am I missing anything?

Some common sense.

[Joe]

Some common sense.

Ah, now I remembered why I never get into debates with you.

[Warrior]

Some common sense.

Ah, now I remembered why I never get into debates with you.

Because you'll always lose. Remember than next time.

[Ender]

I think Joe put up a cogent and potentially winning argument.

[Warrior]

I think Joe put up a cogent and potentially winning argument.

and I think you're wrong.

I'm still waiting for a legitimate instance where Microsoft stole from Apple..

And I'm waiting..
and waiting..

Apple wasn't the first to have any of the features you listed, they didn't innovate on anything. They have had evolutionary steps during the lifetime of Aqua. It's the same for anything (Beryl/Aero/Xgl/Compiz/Whatever) all have evolutionary steps in useability and feature-sets.

Really, there is no way to argue against that.

[Ender]

I think Joe put up a cogent and potentially winning argument.

and I think you're wrong.

I think I was under Jesus's influence when I said that.

[Warrior]

I think Joe put up a cogent and potentially winning argument.

and I think you're wrong.

I think I was under Jesus's influence when I said that.

Then why would you side with Joe? He's going to hell for premarital sex.

[Ender]

I just wanted to use the word "cogent". Haven't used that in a while.

[Warrior]

fair enough.