Are We Eating vL?

[rabbit]

Aside from iago and MyndFyre, we seem to be eating a bunch of vL goers.  Skywing posts here more than at vL, and Rule has been posting a lot too.  Now I'm seeing a bunch of posts by LordNevar, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are other people who are mostly vL at least looking at our boards...

[Newby]

Shrug. I dabble between both; normally there is more general activity here.

[CrAz3D]

I Don't Know.  It Sure Does Seem That Many People From vL Have Come Here.

[MyndFyre]

I Don't Know.  It Sure Does Seem That Many People From vL Have Come Here.

It Sure Seems That Your Post Quality Has Decreased Concurrently With Your Capitalization Of Every Word.

[CrAz3D]

I Don't Know.  It Sure Does Seem That Many People From vL Have Come Here.

It Sure Seems That Your Post Quality Has Decreased Concurrently With Your Capitalization Of Every Word.

It was because the title was all capitalized, but then I realize the title part after I posted.

[trust]

I stopped going to vL awhile ago. I only post here and a lacrosse forum now.

[Joe]

vL forums have been increasingly unmoderated and.. dare I say.. StealthBot-ish lately.

[abc]

I check both, but mainly post here.

[Warrior]

LordNevar? I see LordVader

[iago]

vL is sort of the forum that we spawned off of.

Lately I've been reading both with about the same frequency, but there's a lot less riff-raff here.

The thing is, one of the first things we decided (after e1 ) is that having static leaders is not a good idea. People might start disliking them, or they might become inactive. Also, I don't really like the concept of ownership. A clan, to me, is a group of friends, and nobody owns it. So we decided on democratic elections for leaders.

If you look at our initial leaders, you'll see something like me, Krazed, and Tuberload. Both of them go through long periods of inactivity. Tuberload because he has a lot going on in real life, and Krazed because he has a short attention span. And it's possible that, at some point, I'll be unable to fulfill my duties as leader for whatever reason.

Now, as I said earlier, vL has more riff-raff. This is largely because the leaders have other things to do besides look after a clan. They work, they have (presumably) social lives, they don't have the time that they used to to run the forum. That's fine, it happens. But the result is that people (for example, Topaz) can operating with impunity.

There is a downside, however. Grok, Adron, and Skywing are historical figures on Battle.net, and their clan was what it is because they're the leaders (for the most part). vL simply wouldn't work under our style. So you're sort of left with a forum that slowly decays as no leader can take responsibility.

I feel bad for "taking" members to x86, though. This clan was never supposed to compete with anybody (except, perhaps, e1 ). When I created d2backstab.com, it was for the sole reason of protesting policies of scbackstab.com. However, when I joined/created[1] x86, it was because I didn't know of any group with the ideals I wanted. vL was elitest, and e1 was run by a power hungry dictator. Well, not quite that bad, but I didn't like how e1 was being run. I didn't feel the members were given enough say, which is why I went for the democratic style.

And by the way, I'm very proud of what x86 has become. Almost everybody here is great, and although we have some occasional disagreements, it's a strong group and I enjoy coming here immensly.


[1] Technically, Newby and darkness created it, but we didn't really become a real clan till I came on board. Go me!

[trust]

yay another thread full of pop shots at me. 

[iago]

yay another thread full of pop shots at me. 

Sorry, it's so hard to resist!

[Warrior]

What about that infamous AIM message!

Newby: "Hey war you should join x86!"

You know..after I took that fucking long as shit vb6 test to get into e1.
Goddamn that shit was long.

[rabbit]

LordNevar? I see LordVader

Shhhhh.......I made a mistake.

Either way, it's just lately that more people from vL are appearing.  As I said, Skywing posts here more than at vL.  WTF?

That testing thing was easy though.  It was tedious, but not too hard :\

[Warrior]

Well I mean, we do tend to have more technical discussiosn nowadays than vL.

Examples might be, Myndys UAC PDF
iagos blog postings
my eliteness

[Ender]

It's because Kaleeko goes here, duh.

[Joe]

And doesn't have PMS lasting for 28 days, like Topaz.

Ah, I love my kaleeko.

[Rule]

Grok, Adron, and Skywing are historical figures on Battle.net, and their clan was what it is because they're the leaders (for the most part).

Having been with vL since before it was created (), and observed how things have changed, I strongly disagree with this.  While Grok's leadership and commitment was for a long time the cornerstone of vL's success as a group, Skywing and Adron have been mediocre leaders at best.  They were not original leaders, and were handed the positions (despite what the members wanted) when they opened up, because they were who people saw as "leetest" at the time.  Skywing outright ignores members because he cannot handle internal issues properly, and he goes completely inactive for months at a time, while Adron just does whatever he pleases, freely abusing any power he has because his ego has been stroked to the point where he thinks he is the sacrosanct King of vL.  This is not to say they haven't been outstanding members in some ways, but they are a good example of why it's bad to hand responsibility and control over to people who didn't even really want it (for reasons other than "status"), or try for it, assuming things will go well because they have been successful in other regards.  Their (lack of) leadership, arrogance, poor coping skills, and privileged/elitest attitude is largely responsible for the negative changes we've seen over the years.

[trust]

while Adron just does whatever he pleases, freely abusing any power he has because his ego has been stroked to the point where he thinks he is the sacrosanct King of vL.

Well Adron is, with probably the exception of iago and MyndFyre, the most personable member of vL. In my opinion/experience anyway.

[Super_X]

Grok, Adron, and Skywing are historical figures on Battle.net, and their clan was what it is because they're the leaders (for the most part).

Having been with vL since before it was created (), and observed how things have changed, I strongly disagree with this.  While Grok's leadership and commitment was for a long time the cornerstone of vL's success as a group, Skywing and Adron have been mediocre leaders at best.  They were not original leaders, and were handed the positions (despite what the members wanted) when they opened up, because they were who people saw as "leetest" at the time.  Skywing outright ignores members because he cannot handle internal issues properly, and he goes completely inactive for months at a time, while Adron just does whatever he pleases, freely abusing any power he has because his ego has been stroked to the point where he thinks he is the sacrosanct King of vL.  This is not to say they haven't been outstanding members in some ways, but they are a good example of why it's bad to hand responsibility and control over to people who didn't even really want it (for reasons other than "status"), or try for it, assuming things will go well because they have been successful in other regards.  Their (lack of) leadership, arrogance, poor coping skills, and privileged/elitest attitude is largely responsible for the negative changes we've seen over the years.

When I read this, I detect a hint of jealousy. It may not have been intentional, but I think that you're being pasive aggressive towards those two for being there after you, then becomming the leaders.   Do you think you could have done any better, Rule?

[Rule]

When I read this, I detect a hint of jealousy. It may not have been intentional, but I think that you're being pasive aggressive towards those two for being there after you, then becomming the leaders.   Do you think you could have done any better, Rule?

I'd rather not speculate on whether I would have been better -- I've been inactive for long periods of time.  But I don't think I would have indulged my ego so much as to retain my position as leader while going inactive for months at a time and ignoring the clan and its members.  Also, I do not envy Adron or Skywing: I don't want the burden of indefinitely leading vL, though they seem to see it more as a feather in their cap than a duty. 

Also I think Arta is the most personable member.  However I did not intend to turn this into a thread to congratulate/criticize various vL members.

[Furious]

I came here not knowing many people - I talked to Trust, Sidoh and rabbit on BNET, but I didn't know anyone else.  The only reason I'm still here is because the community is very welcoming, everyone gives you a chance when you come here.  Regardless, I stopped going to vL quite some time ago,  it really seems like if you aren't in their little 'group' that you aren't welcome and it discourages people from going there IMO.

[abc]

Guys, Come on get real, they came because they saw me? pfft. 

[iago]

Having been with vL since before it was created (), and observed how things have changed, I strongly disagree with this.  While Grok's leadership and commitment was for a long time the cornerstone of vL's success as a group, Skywing and Adron have been mediocre leaders at best.  They were not original leaders, and were handed the positions (despite what the members wanted) when they opened up, because they were who people saw as "leetest" at the time.  Skywing outright ignores members because he cannot handle internal issues properly, and he goes completely inactive for months at a time, while Adron just does whatever he pleases, freely abusing any power he has because his ego has been stroked to the point where he thinks he is the sacrosanct King of vL.  This is not to say they haven't been outstanding members in some ways, but they are a good example of why it's bad to hand responsibility and control over to people who didn't even really want it (for reasons other than "status"), or try for it, assuming things will go well because they have been successful in other regards.  Their (lack of) leadership, arrogance, poor coping skills, and privileged/elitest attitude is largely responsible for the negative changes we've seen over the years.

Well, my history on Battle.net starts well into the period, so I really couldn't say much historically. I was just saying what I've observed. But despite the premise, we seem to agree on the conclusion, so that's good.

Also I think Arta is the most personable member.  However I did not intend to turn this into a thread to congratulate/criticize various vL members.

I really couldn't say who's the most personable member. Personally, I always got on best with Adron, Arta, and Zakath. Oh, and rule and Myndfyre

I came here not knowing many people - I talked to Trust, Sidoh and rabbit on BNET, but I didn't know anyone else.  The only reason I'm still here is because the community is very welcoming, everyone gives you a chance when you come here.  Regardless, I stopped going to vL quite some time ago,  it really seems like if you aren't in their little 'group' that you aren't welcome and it discourages people from going there IMO.

That's what we strive for. I tried hard not to alienate people. Even though clan members have the final say on issues in the end, I try not to alienate or discourage non-members. As long as they act respectible (ie, put some effort into posts, not just string together a bunch of words)

[rabbit]

The only reason I'm still here is because the community is very welcoming

GTFO 8D <3

I remember when I first got my member board, and it was at the bottom, and I was sad.  Now it's relatively close to the top.  Scary.  I'm just beginning to realize how big we are.

[Skywing]

I frequent the vL forums just as much as I do these (or most any other forum I visit on a semi-regular basis at least).  Posting frequency is a function of whether there are topics/posts interesting enough to post on since the last time I was there.

[ZeroX]

I frequent the vL forums just as much as I do these (or most any other forum I visit on a semi-regular basis at least).  Posting frequency is a function of whether there are topics/posts interesting enough to post on since the last time I was there.

In your defense. I have talk to you once a long time ago in the BNET support channel about an issue I was having with my BNSL and you were quite kind and not the person Rule portrays you as.

On the topic of vL not having activity I never knew any of you guys till x86 was just getting started up and one rogue member left and created .de "thats where I ment Warrior <3" Besides a select few I feel that this community is alot more, responsive? I posted in the world of warcraft board of vL about what realms you guys all play on, and didnt get a response for quite some time so I thought the community had die off and the site was there just for historical sakes.

[disco]

The vL forum never really seemed all that active to begin with, imo.  Maybe it's because I visit larger forums, or always just skimmed past all the boards between "The Media Motel" and "Thing-O-Rama ™" ( ) but even when I first heard about vl back in early '04 it didn't seem to be very hoppin.

Or maybe it's just cause I'm a noob who didn't hear about vL until early '04...

[iago]

I frequent the vL forums just as much as I do these (or most any other forum I visit on a semi-regular basis at least).  Posting frequency is a function of whether there are topics/posts interesting enough to post on since the last time I was there.

Ever since you mentioned "Show all unread posts" to me, I've been doing the same. It's quite a handy feature for skimming a forum.

[LordVader]

I frequent the vL forums just as much as I do these (or most any other forum I visit on a semi-regular basis at least).  Posting frequency is a function of whether there are topics/posts interesting enough to post on since the last time I was there.

Ever since you mentioned "Show all unread posts" to me, I've been doing the same. It's quite a handy feature for skimming a forum.

Another way you can do this is thru you're profile if you hit show posts it'll show you threads you recently posted in, and if you aren't subscribed directly to these posts it's a good way to quickly glance and see if you need to reply to something left open or unanswered etc.

[iago]

Well, here I want to see all threads, since it's my home forum. And at vL, I want to see all threads because I don't really post. But I know what you mean, and it's handy.

[AntiVirus]

I came here not knowing many people - I talked to Trust, Sidoh and rabbit on BNET, but I didn't know anyone else.  The only reason I'm still here is because the community is very welcoming, everyone gives you a chance when you come here.  Regardless, I stopped going to vL quite some time ago,  it really seems like if you aren't in their little 'group' that you aren't welcome and it discourages people from going there IMO.

Very true.  Except for the difference of people that brought me here, that is the exact same reason I am still here, why I became an actual** member of these forums, and why I left the vL forums.

** By actual I mean I am listed as a clan(?) member and have a say in what goes on around here.  I'm able to directly affect the community.

[Furious]

The vL forum never really seemed all that active to begin with, imo.  Maybe it's because I visit larger forums, or always just skimmed past all the boards between "The Media Motel" and "Thing-O-Rama ™" ( ) but even when I first heard about vl back in early '04 it didn't seem to be very hoppin.

Or maybe it's just cause I'm a noob who didn't hear about vL until early '04...

That's why you've never seen it *really* active.

[iago]

** By actual I mean I am listed as a clan(?) member and have a say in what goes on around here.

We like to let you think you have a say. But really, it's run by a select few, the Illuminati, who decide the results of all votes and elections. Sorry!

[deadly7]

We like to let you think you have a say. But really, it's run by a select few, the Illuminati, who decide the results of all votes and elections. Sorry!

I demand  to be let into this selective group or I'll call it a hate crime.

[Joe]

** By actual I mean I am listed as a clan(?) member and have a say in what goes on around here.

We like to let you think you have a say. But really, it's run by a select few, the Illuminati, who decide the results of all votes and elections. Sorry!

I love you!

But yeah, vL has gone downhill over the past year or two, while x86 has gone uphill. For example, I used to take all my serious questions (examples, the copyright thing and the HD copying) to vL, and now I wouldn't think twice about posting it here instead.

[iago]

If I have a very technical question, I still post it at vL. I tend to get better technical answers there, like about assembly or something.

[AntiVirus]

** By actual I mean I am listed as a clan(?) member and have a say in what goes on around here.

We like to let you think you have a say. But really, it's run by a select few, the Illuminati, who decide the results of all votes and elections. Sorry!

.... *cries*