Clan x86
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: CrAz3D on January 12, 2009, 05:51:24 pm
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anyone on it?
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Yes.
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likes/dislikes?
I'm setting up right now
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http://forum.x86labs.org/index.php/topic,13539.0.html
:)
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So this is the one replacing Vista? It seems like Microsoft does this a lot. They bring in some new Windows OS, and charge tons of money for it; it turns out to be pretty bad, and thereafter they replace it with a better one. I don't trust Microsoft, never really have.
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Vista wasn't bad. I like Vista better than any previous Windows versions. You can't blame Vista for running poorly on an old system when they're trying to create a 'new age' operating system. It sounds to me like Win7 takes Vista and just tailors it to correct what every complained about.
I'm going to install the 64-bit version tonight.
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Vista wasn't bad. I like Vista better than any previous Windows versions. You can't blame Vista for running poorly on an old system when they're trying to create a 'new age' operating system.
But at the same time, they authorized "vista compatible" stickers on everything that was new enough to have ram.
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true. i guess the average user doesn't really know much about ram, processor speed, etc.
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Is it worth using for my Windows partition? I'm trying to redo my OSes before I head back to school, and I'm not sure what to go with here. It's either XP or Windows7, I think. I don't really like Vista.
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Keep in mind that the Beta expires on August 1, 2009.
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(off topic) Anybody care if I merge this into the other Windows 7 thread?
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No.
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Keep in mind that the Beta expires on August 1, 2009.
Yeah, that's one of the things I was worried about. However, I'll probably have time over the summer to redo OSes again.
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Keep in mind that the Beta expires on August 1, 2009.
Yeah, that's one of the things I was worried about. However, I'll probably have time over the summer to redo OSes again.
7 over XP, def.
I assume there will be some work around by August, much like there was for the Vista betas.
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Is it worth using for my Windows partition? I'm trying to redo my OSes before I head back to school, and I'm not sure what to go with here. It's either XP or Windows7, I think. I don't really like Vista.
XP. Better program support, better driver support.
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I'm on Windows 7 now, and right away Ventrilo doesn't work properly. It also comes with IE8 which is pretty crappy. My sound board drivers don't work on Windows 7, either. (Not related to the Ventrilo issues) Other than that, it's pretty bad ass.
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The students at work installed this, and I was watching them for awhile (like, struggling to get a static ip :) ) -- it looks to me like all the things that annoyed me about Vista are still there.
Of course, I'm different from most people -- the things that annoy me aren't the same that annoyed most.
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Installing now.
If I don't post again for several weeks, it's most likely because I didn't survive.
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The students at work installed this, and I was watching them for awhile (like, struggling to get a static ip :) ) -- it looks to me like all the things that annoyed me about Vista are still there.
I think one would struggle to 'get' a static ip on any operating system :P
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Wtf @ removing quicklaunch? I live by quicklaunch! I have ~30 icons on my quicklaunch on this workstation (I have a full row on my taskbar dedicated to it), that's my favourite way to launch programs. :-o
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Wtf @ removing quicklaunch? I live by quicklaunch! I have ~30 icons on my quicklaunch on this workstation (I have a full row on my taskbar dedicated to it), that's my favourite way to launch programs. :-o
holy fuck... one of my friends freshman year did the same thing... weirdos.
I only use it for programs I constantly use and require a maximized window most of the time...
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Wtf @ removing quicklaunch? I live by quicklaunch! I have ~30 icons on my quicklaunch on this workstation (I have a full row on my taskbar dedicated to it), that's my favourite way to launch programs. :-o
Don't worry, it's easy to get back!
Just...
- Right-click the taskbar, choose Toolbars / New Toolbar
- In the folder selection dialog, enter the following string and hit OK:
%userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch - Turn off the “lock the taskbar” setting, and right-click on the divider. Make sure that “Show text” and “Show title” are disabled and the view is set to “small icons”.
Windows makes things simple!
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Wtf @ removing quicklaunch? I live by quicklaunch! I have ~30 icons on my quicklaunch on this workstation (I have a full row on my taskbar dedicated to it), that's my favourite way to launch programs. :-o
Don't worry, it's easy to get back!
Just...
- Right-click the taskbar, choose Toolbars / New Toolbar
- In the folder selection dialog, enter the following string and hit OK:
%userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch - Turn off the “lock the taskbar” setting, and right-click on the divider. Make sure that “Show text” and “Show title” are disabled and the view is set to “small icons”.
Windows makes things simple!
Microsoft really is a model of efficiency.
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Don't worry, it's easy to get back!
Just...
- Right-click the taskbar, choose Toolbars / New Toolbar
- In the folder selection dialog, enter the following string and hit OK:
%userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch - Turn off the “lock the taskbar” setting, and right-click on the divider. Make sure that “Show text” and “Show title” are disabled and the view is set to “small icons”.
Windows makes things simple!
/me waits for warrior to explain why this is ultimately the best way of doing things, and why Microsoft is, once again, a God for having thought of it.
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holy fuck... one of my friends freshman year did the same thing... weirdos.
I only use it for programs I constantly use and require a maximized window most of the time...
Haha, I use it for programs I don't use often, because programs I DO use often are normally running already. It's mostly a habit -- I've always done it and it's worked well. :)
That being said, Windows isn't my primary OS and hasn't been for a lot of years. I only use it for short periods (except at work).
Wtf @ removing quicklaunch? I live by quicklaunch! I have ~30 icons on my quicklaunch on this workstation (I have a full row on my taskbar dedicated to it), that's my favourite way to launch programs. :-o
Don't worry, it's easy to get back!
Just...
- Right-click the taskbar, choose Toolbars / New Toolbar
- In the folder selection dialog, enter the following string and hit OK:
%userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch - Turn off the “lock the taskbar” setting, and right-click on the divider. Make sure that “Show text” and “Show title” are disabled and the view is set to “small icons”.
Windows makes things simple!
I sense sarcasm, but that sounds to me like a perfectly reasonable way of doing something, bearing in mind that I'm a Slackware guy! :)
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In Windows 7, the Quick Launch functionality has been merged with the Task bar functionality.
Think about it, with prior versions, you had a set area for Quick Launch, then a set area for running Tasks, the space was being competed for by two answers to the same problem which could be condensed into one, and by having useless verbosity in the Taskbar (Text labels).
With Windows 7, all this is alleviated, and the Quick Launch functionality has even been extended to the point where you can pin types of Documents (Or Folders, or whatever) opened by the pinned Application, to the Application itself.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc189/brianshapiro/pinning_files.png)
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Wtf @ removing quicklaunch? I live by quicklaunch! I have ~30 icons on my quicklaunch on this workstation (I have a full row on my taskbar dedicated to it), that's my favourite way to launch programs. :-o
Don't worry, it's easy to get back!
Just...
- Right-click the taskbar, choose Toolbars / New Toolbar
- In the folder selection dialog, enter the following string and hit OK:
%userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch - Turn off the “lock the taskbar” setting, and right-click on the divider. Make sure that “Show text” and “Show title” are disabled and the view is set to “small icons”.
Windows makes things simple!
Microsoft really is a model of efficiency.
I don't see anything wrong with it, the functionality has been built into the Superbar. If you want UI redundancy, you will have to work for it.
Unless of course, you can name me how Quick Launch has some functionality that is lacking in the Superbar.
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Don't worry, it's easy to get back!
Just...
- Right-click the taskbar, choose Toolbars / New Toolbar
- In the folder selection dialog, enter the following string and hit OK:
%userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch - Turn off the “lock the taskbar” setting, and right-click on the divider. Make sure that “Show text” and “Show title” are disabled and the view is set to “small icons”.
Windows makes things simple!
/me waits for warrior to explain why this is ultimately the best way of doing things, and why Microsoft is, once again, a God for having thought of it.
Your statement does not make much sense to me, then again that's to be expected from statements made by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Whatsoever.
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It seems there is a great deal of confusion surrounding the Superbar, and it's to be expected.
To get more information about it, though it's hard to judge without using it first hand, you can go here (http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/01/15/windows-7-superbar-overview).
A video showing the Superbar and a lot of it's functionality can be found here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg6ltIZRw0)
After reading the article and watching the video, I'll be interesting to read your comments/criticisms about how the new Taskbar works. It's an interesting discussion.
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In Windows 7, the Quick Launch functionality has been merged with the Task bar functionality.
Think about it, with prior versions, you had a set area for Quick Launch, then a set area for running Tasks, the space was being competed for by two answers to the same problem which could be condensed into one, and by having useless verbosity in the Taskbar (Text labels).
With Windows 7, all this is alleviated, and the Quick Launch functionality has even been extended to the point where you can pin types of Documents (Or Folders, or whatever) opened by the pinned Application, to the Application itself.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc189/brianshapiro/pinning_files.png)
It seems to have the same annoying functionality as Mac, where the running/non-running icons share the same space. Is that always the case, or is it configurable? I have trouble telling which is running and which isn't (both on OS X and 7) -- I don't do well with shading and stuff like that.
Personally, I'd much prefer having a space reserved for running stuff, and another space reserved for programs I can run. As I said, I normally have 30+ icons on my quicklaunch, but I rarely have more than 2-3 programs running at once (I hate having a lot of stuff running, it makes me feel cluttered). It'd be incredibly annoying if running/stopped programs had to share the same space, I'd probably go back to putting all my programs on the desktop so I wouldn't have to look at them.
On a somewhat related note, what they ought to do is decouple Windows's interface from the OS itself, like Linux, and let people rip and replace the interface entirely. If I could replace the Vista/7 interface with XP's, I'd be far happier to use them. Better yet if I could use a stripped down theme like I do on Linux. I realize that it's possible to do this to some extent, but I don't think there's any good way.
And also, while idle with no programs open, and on a totally fresh install, ~300 - 400mb of RAM were in use. Is that normal?
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While yes, running/non-running programs are in the same region, WhoTF cares? There is no functional difference, and barely any aesthetic difference.
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It seems to have the same annoying functionality as Mac, where the running/non-running icons share the same space. Is that always the case, or is it configurable? I have trouble telling which is running and which isn't (both on OS X and 7) -- I don't do well with shading and stuff like that.
Well, if the Task is unpinned it won't stay on the Superbar after it's closed. That's obvious though.
Aside from that, you can tell which Applications are running by the border around the icon, and the fact that it has a hover color based on the icon RGB values on mouse over. That's something specific to running programs.
Another option is to enable text labels, then only running programs get text labels. Seems like good middle ground.
In my experience though, it has not been very difficult to tell which Applications are running.
Personally, I'd much prefer having a space reserved for running stuff, and another space reserved for programs I can run. As I said, I normally have 30+ icons on my quicklaunch, but I rarely have more than 2-3 programs running at once (I hate having a lot of stuff running, it makes me feel cluttered). It'd be incredibly annoying if running/stopped programs had to share the same space, I'd probably go back to putting all my programs on the desktop so I wouldn't have to look at them.
I'm not sure what you mean, you'd look at the icons on the Quick Launch regardless. If it really bothers you, you can set the Superbar to auto hide.
On a somewhat related note, what they ought to do is decouple Windows's interface from the OS itself, like Linux, and let people rip and replace the interface entirely. If I could replace the Vista/7 interface with XP's, I'd be far happier to use them. Better yet if I could use a stripped down theme like I do on Linux. I realize that it's possible to do this to some extent, but I don't think there's any good way.
Well Windows is such a general purpose Operating Systems, that while there are ways to do this (Shell replacements), they are not very prevalent, especially not on Windows 7.
And also, while idle with no programs open, and on a totally fresh install, ~300 - 400mb of RAM were in use. Is that normal?
Yes. Windows 7's memory manager is much smarter about allocating memory than Windows XP.
Windows 7 reserves memory for caching frequently used programs to make them load faster, the difference is really noticeable in a game like World of Warcraft where you're constantly loading zones. I forget exactly, but Vista was significantly faster at loading Zones than Windows XP was. A bit unscientific, but eh.
Now, bear in mind that just because the memory is in use does not mean that it's not accessible if need be. Unused memory in an Operating System is basically wasted memory.
The Windows memory allocator has a concept of memory pressure, that is, if the PC is strapped for memory and needs more, then the caching engine will release some of it's memory, the .NET Garbage Collector will be forced to collect memory more often, etc.
It's all pretty streamlined, I think it's a waste of time in this day and age to worry too much over readings like this. Unless there is a concrete slowdown noticed in the PC, or you start getting out of memory errors, there's generally nothing to worry about.
Now, this does not completely rule out the fact that a Windows component may be (by flawed design or otherwise) using up more memory than it should, as this is not memory that can be given up on demand like cached memory, but it's something to consider nonetheless.
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(http://www.neowin.net/images/uploaded/98_cheatsheat.png)
Some nice Windows hotkeys, some I just learned today. May help with productivity with the Superbar.
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Well, if the Task is unpinned it won't stay on the Superbar after it's closed. That's obvious though.
Aside from that, you can tell which Applications are running by the border around the icon, and the fact that it has a hover color based on the icon RGB values on mouse over. That's something specific to running programs.
Another option is to enable text labels, then only running programs get text labels. Seems like good middle ground.
In my experience though, it has not been very difficult to tell which Applications are running.
Maybe for most people they can tell right away, but it annoys me. I'm very fussy about how stuff looks and feels.
I'm not sure what you mean, you'd look at the icons on the Quick Launch regardless. If it really bothers you, you can set the Superbar to auto hide.
Autohide is eww.
Keeping the icons in the quick launch in a different place means that yes, they're still there, but they can be effectively ignored and can be a blank spot as far as I'm concerned.
Well Windows is such a general purpose Operating Systems, that while there are ways to do this (Shell replacements), they are not very prevalent, especially not on Windows 7.
It's too bad.
Yes. Windows 7's memory manager is much smarter about allocating memory than Windows XP.
Windows 7 reserves memory for caching frequently used programs to make them load faster, the difference is really noticeable in a game like World of Warcraft where you're constantly loading zones. I forget exactly, but Vista was significantly faster at loading Zones than Windows XP was. A bit unscientific, but eh.
Now, bear in mind that just because the memory is in use does not mean that it's not accessible if need be. Unused memory in an Operating System is basically wasted memory.
The Windows memory allocator has a concept of memory pressure, that is, if the PC is strapped for memory and needs more, then the caching engine will release some of it's memory, the .NET Garbage Collector will be forced to collect memory more often, etc.
It's all pretty streamlined, I think it's a waste of time in this day and age to worry too much over readings like this. Unless there is a concrete slowdown noticed in the PC, or you start getting out of memory errors, there's generally nothing to worry about.
Now, this does not completely rule out the fact that a Windows component may be (by flawed design or otherwise) using up more memory than it should, as this is not memory that can be given up on demand like cached memory, but it's something to consider nonetheless.
That sounds good in general, but not when it's being run in VMWare (which we're doing). VMWare only hands out the memory that a computer is using, but if a computer is reserving 300mb, that's 300mb less that I have for other servers on VMWare.
I assume that's optional, though, so probably a nonissue.
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Maybe for most people they can tell right away, but it annoys me. I'm very fussy about how stuff looks and feels.
Yeah, text labels would probably suit you best.
Autohide is eww.
Keeping the icons in the quick launch in a different place means that yes, they're still there, but they can be effectively ignored and can be a blank spot as far as I'm concerned.
I see, then maybe you're the reason they optionally left in Quick Launch. I don't think it's a problem a lot of people will have though.
That sounds good in general, but not when it's being run in VMWare (which we're doing). VMWare only hands out the memory that a computer is using, but if a computer is reserving 300mb, that's 300mb less that I have for other servers on VMWare.
I assume that's optional, though, so probably a nonissue.
Yes, a lot of the caching mechanisms are optional (Superfetch mainly), but some of it is built into the memory manager itself and caches memory on a much more granular level I believe.
Yeah, the VM problem seems like a real deal breaker, but I'm not sure how many people would do that.
I believe much of Microsoft's design philosophy follows the whims of the many, then if there's a sizable (yet relative to the majority very small) amount of people who still want a feature, it's hidden away in an option somewhere.
It's not too bad I don't think.
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Is everything "Super-<something>"?
I'm a fan of awesome bars myself, but I'm not sure if I can handle super stuff. :)
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Superfetch and Superbar lol, just funny that they're both relevant here.
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I was wondering, how can windows improve on something named a "superbar"?
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I was wondering, how can windows improve on something named a "superbar"?
What? Superbar is what the new Taskbar is referred to as by Microsoft employees.
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I was wondering, how can windows improve on something named a "superbar"?
What? Superbar is what the new Taskbar is referred to as by Microsoft employees.
I think he was kidding
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I thought so, but you never know.
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I've been using win7 for a couple weeks installed alongside linux on my laptop, which I'm now using considerably more than my desktop since I'm at school. So far the only features I have noticed that I find useful are the new start menu which is way faster to browse than the old one, and the start menu search (especially considering the control panel is a total clusterfuck). Uhh the file copy dialog seems to finally be unretarded. Aero and the default theme is almost as ugly and annoying as OSX and after a few days got turned off. The new explorer layout sucks. I dislike you sidebar and stupid thing at the bottom (superstatusbar?) And where did the up one folder button go? :( Superbar isn't that bad but the default functionality gets really annoying. I really don't like the grouping and the mousover things and the no labels, but those are changed easily enough. I do like the pinned programs though, especially being able to have my most frequently used things stay in the right order regardless of when I started them (OCD FTW)
Anyways, I don't think I'll be ditching XP on my desktop any time soon. Even at no cost I see no compelling reason to upgrade, at least until security/driver issues become prevalent.
PS. fuck UI designers, apple sucks stop trying to copy their stupid shit