After the most recent delay, Microsoft put a new executive in charge of future Windows projects. In addition, they replaced several other managers. (source (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=183702744))
They've Replaced a whole bunch of managers when a project is almost done, and they added a bunch of new people to the project team. We've been told over and over in different software engineering/project management courses that those are incredibly dumb things to do. I'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is completely screwing itself by making these moves, but I guess we'll see !
We can only hope so, god I love seeing rich white people burn.
Quote from: GameSnake on March 27, 2006, 09:23:22 AM
We can only hope so, god I love seeing rich white people burn.
You're seriously an asshole.
Quote from: iago on March 27, 2006, 08:56:06 AM
After the most recent delay, Microsoft put a new executive in charge of future Windows projects. In addition, they replaced several other managers. (source (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=183702744))
They've Replaced a whole bunch of managers when a project is almost done, and they added a bunch of new people to the project team. We've been told over and over in different software engineering/project management courses that those are incredibly dumb things to do. I'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is completely screwing itself by making these moves, but I guess we'll see !
What's funny is that they say the same thing in their books (like Code Complete and Rapid Development) - these things are not good practices.
We'll see how things go.
Quote from: MyndFyrex86] link=topic=5352.msg62122#msg62122 date=1143472215]
What's funny is that they say the same thing in their books (like Code Complete and Rapid Development) - these things are not good practices.
We'll see how things go.
Exactly! In my Project Management class we had a whole chapter on what NOT to do if your project is behind schedule. They're doing pretty much everything we learned not to do. Who's coming up with these ideas?
Quote from: iago on March 27, 2006, 10:39:17 AM
Exactly! In my Project Management class we had a whole chapter on what NOT to do if your project is behind schedule. They're doing pretty much everything we learned not to do. Who's coming up with these ideas?
Jobs snuck into Microsoft and sent out a memo.
Quote from: MyndFyrex86] link=topic=5352.msg62122#msg62122 date=1143472215]
Quote from: GameSnake on March 27, 2006, 09:23:22 AM
We can only hope so, god I love seeing rich white people burn.
You're seriously an asshole.
Quote from: iago on March 27, 2006, 08:56:06 AM
After the most recent delay, Microsoft put a new executive in charge of future Windows projects. In addition, they replaced several other managers. (source (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=183702744))
They've Replaced a whole bunch of managers when a project is almost done, and they added a bunch of new people to the project team. We've been told over and over in different software engineering/project management courses that those are incredibly dumb things to do. I'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is completely screwing itself by making these moves, but I guess we'll see !
What's funny is that they say the same thing in their books (like Code Complete and Rapid Development) - these things are not good practices.
We'll see how things go.
Why am I an asshole? Microsoft is doing it to themselves!
QuoteI'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is completely screwing itself by making these moves, but I guess we'll see !
Quote from: GameSnake on March 27, 2006, 01:09:20 PM
Quote from: MyndFyrex86] link=topic=5352.msg62122#msg62122 date=1143472215]
Quote from: GameSnake on March 27, 2006, 09:23:22 AM
We can only hope so, god I love seeing rich white people burn.
You're seriously an asshole.
Quote from: iago on March 27, 2006, 08:56:06 AM
After the most recent delay, Microsoft put a new executive in charge of future Windows projects. In addition, they replaced several other managers. (source (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=183702744))
They've Replaced a whole bunch of managers when a project is almost done, and they added a bunch of new people to the project team. We've been told over and over in different software engineering/project management courses that those are incredibly dumb things to do. I'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is completely screwing itself by making these moves, but I guess we'll see !
What's funny is that they say the same thing in their books (like Code Complete and Rapid Development) - these things are not good practices.
We'll see how things go.
Why am I an asshole? Microsoft is doing it to themselves! QuoteI'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is completely screwing itself by making these moves, but I guess we'll see !
Because you like to watch people "burn"?
Figure-of-speech.
Quote from: GameSnake on March 27, 2006, 01:09:20 PM
Why am I an asshole? Microsoft is doing it to themselves!
Quote from: GameSnake on March 27, 2006, 09:23:22 AM
We can only hope so, god I love seeing rich white people burn.
Quote from: iago on March 27, 2006, 08:56:06 AM
After the most recent delay, Microsoft put a new executive in charge of future Windows projects. In addition, they replaced several other managers. (source (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=183702744))
They've Replaced a whole bunch of managers when a project is almost done, and they added a bunch of new people to the project team. We've been told over and over in different software engineering/project management courses that those are incredibly dumb things to do. I'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is completely screwing itself by making these moves, but I guess we'll see !
Maybe it fails in their position, Microsoft isn't going to let a project hyped so much fail. They will throw unlimited amounts of money at it if they have to, but it will get done. The replacements were done for the best of the company.
Quote from: Warriorx86] link=topic=5352.msg62207#msg62207 date=1143501163]
Quote from: iago on March 27, 2006, 08:56:06 AM
After the most recent delay, Microsoft put a new executive in charge of future Windows projects. In addition, they replaced several other managers. (source (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=183702744))
They've Replaced a whole bunch of managers when a project is almost done, and they added a bunch of new people to the project team. We've been told over and over in different software engineering/project management courses that those are incredibly dumb things to do. I'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is completely screwing itself by making these moves, but I guess we'll see !
Maybe it fails in their position, Microsoft isn't going to let a project hyped so much fail. They will throw unlimited amounts of money at it if they have to, but it will get done. The replacements were done for the best of the company.
That's the problem, though. Throwing money at a problem like a slipping schedule almost invariably makes the problem worse. Like I said, many, many projects have failed because of trying to do that.
If it has to happen anyway regardless (take this situation for example) it's better to throw money at them to let them hire top notch people to continue where the others left off.
That'd really suck if Microsoft went bankrupt... I'd have to learn a whole new operating system...
Quote from: Warriorx86] link=topic=5352.msg62234#msg62234 date=1143514645]
If it has to happen anyway regardless (take this situation for example) it's better to throw money at them to let them hire top notch people to continue where the others left off.
Then the top notch people have to learn everything that's happening, which is a lot of re-education. Read the book, "The Mythical Man Month", it's one of the foundation books on project management and that's where they discuss why adding peopel to a project rarely speeds it up. It's better, in general, for them to suck it up and delay the project or drop features.
Quote from: MetaL MilitiA on March 27, 2006, 10:01:39 PM
That'd really suck if Microsoft went bankrupt... I'd have to learn a whole new operating system...
I really doubt that will happen. It's just more likely that this will delay their release longer.
Quote from: iago on March 27, 2006, 10:06:08 PM
Quote from: Warriorx86] link=topic=5352.msg62234#msg62234 date=1143514645]
If it has to happen anyway regardless (take this situation for example) it's better to throw money at them to let them hire top notch people to continue where the others left off.
Then the top notch people have to learn everything that's happening, which is a lot of re-education. Read the book, "The Mythical Man Month", it's one of the foundation books on project management and that's where they discuss why adding peopel to a project rarely speeds it up. It's better, in general, for them to suck it up and delay the project or drop features.
Well Vista has been delayed a while but I doubt new project managers will be touching much of the code in this particular instance.
If the way Windows comments code hasn't changed from Windows 2000 (Not that I saw it ;)) then I don't think there will be a problem with commenting at all and most of the programmers who program low enough in the kernel usually know what they're doing.
In general I think people implementing higher things like applications are the ones who tend to get replaced a lot which results in messy code for Windows applications. Of course with WinFX including XAML application development time is cut probably in half.
Quote from: MetaL MilitiA on March 27, 2006, 10:01:39 PM
That'd really suck if Microsoft went bankrupt... I'd have to learn a whole new operating system...
Good. Think outside the box.
Quote from: Warriorx86] link=topic=5352.msg62234#msg62234 date=1143514645]
If it has to happen anyway regardless (take this situation for example) it's better to throw money at them to let them hire top notch people to continue where the others left off.
That's not how it works. This shows that you have little actual experience in the software industry.
Quote from: MyndFyrex86] link=topic=5352.msg62241#msg62241 date=1143517132]
Quote from: Warriorx86] link=topic=5352.msg62234#msg62234 date=1143514645]
If it has to happen anyway regardless (take this situation for example) it's better to throw money at them to let them hire top notch people to continue where the others left off.
That's not how it works. This shows that you have little actual experience in the software industry.
Alright, then how do you suggest they handle it? Perhaps they should post an ad in the news paper for volunteer work wanted?
That is how it's done, perhaps not as outfront as that but that's what it boils down to.
Quote from: Warriorx86] link=topic=5352.msg62243#msg62243 date=1143517781]
Quote from: MyndFyrex86] link=topic=5352.msg62241#msg62241 date=1143517132]
Quote from: Warriorx86] link=topic=5352.msg62234#msg62234 date=1143514645]
If it has to happen anyway regardless (take this situation for example) it's better to throw money at them to let them hire top notch people to continue where the others left off.
That's not how it works. This shows that you have little actual experience in the software industry.
Alright, then how do you suggest they handle it? Perhaps they should post an ad in the news paper for volunteer work wanted?
That is how it's done, perhaps not as outfront as that but that's what it boils down to.
No, volunteer work won't help either. Like I said, they just have to push back their targe date. Throwing money and people at the problem does NOT fix it.
Keeping people who are doing a bad job isn't going to work either, the date has been pushed back and they have hired new people and gone to great lengths to keep their ready date. Withought money to hire people they would be volunteers, it's either you pay them or you don't.. That is throwing money at the problem and that is what's working.
Quote from: Warriorx86] link=topic=5352.msg62296#msg62296 date=1143557451]
Keeping people who are doing a bad job isn't going to work either, the date has been pushed back and they have hired new people and gone to great lengths to keep their ready date. Withought money to hire people they would be volunteers, it's either you pay them or you don't.. That is throwing money at the problem and that is what's working.
A bad job - you're operating under the assumption that the people being replaced are doing a bad job as defined by the
quality of their work. It may simply be that they don't have enough time to get all the features they want done.
Throwing money at the problem - this is what you do when you add workers to a project,
not replace workers.
At least by keeping the employees on the project, they're already familiar with the codebase.
Read the book that iago suggested (The Mythical Man Month (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0201835959/sr=8-1/qid=1143566528/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9515513-9529631?%5Fencoding=UTF8)) or one that I suggested (Rapid Development (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1556159005/qid=1143566558/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-9515513-9529631?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)) -- the one I suggested is even by Microsoft Press -- and you'll see what we're talking about. The only way to deliver a truly quality product when you don't have enough time is to slip the date or drop some features. Clearly their priority is features, so they've slipped the date.
Pick two: time, quality, features. You're going to lose out on the other one, no matter how hard you try or how much money you throw at it.
I suggest you do some reading on what's been happening with Vista then, it's clearly shown that Vista has a lot of organizational issues and the people were replaced due to the need to rewrite media portions which in turn caused the product to be pushed back. Your logic would work if the situation were anything otherwise.