http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20950801-1702,00.html
Oh silly Europe & you're ridiculously spelled words.
I still like the guillotine idea.
Guillotine's are gross, psycho. And if you ask me, their words are spelled more like they're pronounced, like colour which is pronounced, of all things CUL UR. They still need the first u, but they're one closer than we are. :)
Gross, maybe. But better than lethal injection because it'd be quicker.
The guillotine, while gruesome in spectacle, is actually quite humane.
Quote from: disco on December 19, 2006, 11:22:15 AM
The guillotine, while gruesome in spectacle, is actually quite humane.
It may be painless, but it's humiliating, disgusting and violent. It shouldn't be considered "humane."
It isn't humiliating unless it is public, and even so...who the hell gives a crap if it is hulimiating?
Violent? In the sense that it is a quick end...but less involves much less struggle than most other methods.
As far as disgusting, that's your opinion.
I think guillotining people is a very viable alternative to lethal injection.
Killing is bad. I don't care if it's the bad guys or the good guys doing it. That's all I have to say on the matter.
One other thing (ha) is, this is my favorite line:
"These decisions... mark the definitive beginning of the end... I have no doubt that this trend is welcomed by a lot of Americans who, given a proper choice, prefer just security to cruel revenge,''
Which says exactly what I always say: the death penalty exists because people like to get revenge, people like the good feeling they get when somebody they don't like is killed. And that is, I'm afraid, Barbaric. Sorry, but enjoying somebody else's death, or feeling better that somebody died, is the whole problem.
That's your opinion.
I feel more secure when murderers are arrested and in jail.
I feel even more secure when murderers are executed and have zero possibility oh escaping.
Quote from: iago on December 19, 2006, 01:03:41 PM
Killing is bad. I don't care if it's the bad guys or the good guys doing it. That's all I have to say on the matter.
One other thing (ha) is, this is my favorite line:
"These decisions... mark the definitive beginning of the end... I have no doubt that this trend is welcomed by a lot of Americans who, given a proper choice, prefer just security to cruel revenge,''
Which says exactly what I always say: the death penalty exists because people like to get revenge, people like the good feeling they get when somebody they don't like is killed. And that is, I'm afraid, Barbaric. Sorry, but enjoying somebody else's death, or feeling better that somebody died, is the whole problem.
QFT
Quote from: CrAz3D on December 19, 2006, 01:23:06 PM
That's your opinion.
I feel more secure when murderers are arrested and in jail.
I feel even more secure when murderers are executed and have zero possibility oh escaping.
Yeah, in places with no death penalty you'd think the hills would be overrun by escaped murderers. But trust me, they aren't. Escapes are very, very rare.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like jails either, the way they are currently run -- but I think they're slightly better than the death penalty.
Quote from: CrAz3D on December 19, 2006, 11:33:31 AM
It isn't humiliating unless it is public, and even so...who the hell gives a crap if it is hulimiating?
Violent? In the sense that it is a quick end...but less involves much less struggle than most other methods.
As far as disgusting, that's your opinion.
I think guillotining people is a very viable alternative to lethal injection.
How does it involve less struggle? You don't think someone's head getting cut off is gruesome? You're right, that's subjective statement, but I'd think that my opinion is shared by just about everyone...
You may think that, but I don't think it's a legal form of execution in any of the first world countries, so unless you plan to move to Chad, you'll just have to remain pouting in your corner.
Quote from: iago on December 19, 2006, 01:03:41 PM
Killing is bad. I don't care if it's the bad guys or the good guys doing it. That's all I have to say on the matter.
One other thing (ha) is, this is my favorite line:
"These decisions... mark the definitive beginning of the end... I have no doubt that this trend is welcomed by a lot of Americans who, given a proper choice, prefer just security to cruel revenge,''
Which says exactly what I always say: the death penalty exists because people like to get revenge, people like the good feeling they get when somebody they don't like is killed. And that is, I'm afraid, Barbaric. Sorry, but enjoying somebody else's death, or feeling better that somebody died, is the whole problem.
I'm not for the death penalty, but I don't really like this argument. I don't think it's barbaric to feel relieved when someone who's inflicted immense amounts of pain to a number of people is killed. I think it's human nature. If human nature is barbaric, then I agree.
The death penalty is closer to Hammurabi's code than any other law that I can think of at the moment. I consider the time period of Hammurabi to be pretty barbaric.
Quote from: unTactical on December 19, 2006, 03:37:58 PM
The death penalty is closer to Hammurabi's code than any other law that I can think of at the moment. I consider the time period of Hammurabi to be pretty barbaric.
The president is as close as it gets to a king, but that doesn't mean that democracy needs to be changed because it's too close to monarchy.
I stand by with what I've said before -- people should have life in prison unless they are too dangerous (IE, escaping and going on a killing spree). To you, what would be more punishment -- life in confinement, bored out of your wits, every day for the rest of your life, or the end? But yeah, if they're an escape mastermind then we're definately not going to let them sit and plot out their escape and killing spree.
As for a lethal injection, it doesn't hurt, does it? I mean, I've never gotten one obviously, but it can't hurt more than a flu shot. Five minutes after the injection, the on-site doctor declares you dead after checking for a pulse, and from the limited footage of the injections I've seen, your writs and legs and strapped to a table, you're injected, and you die. I've never seen anyone scream / writhe in agnoy or pain, like electric chairs.
Yes, the guillotine was neat back in it's time period (before injections because usable) because it killed them quickly, but how would you rather die -- head chopped off, or injected? And think about your funeral, especially if you want to have an open casket. Your headless form won't be too attactive.
But I think that any form of killing someone is overkill. They should just sit in prison and rot.
Quote from: Sidoh on December 19, 2006, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: unTactical on December 19, 2006, 03:37:58 PM
The death penalty is closer to Hammurabi's code than any other law that I can think of at the moment. I consider the time period of Hammurabi to be pretty barbaric.
The president is as close as it gets to a king, but that doesn't mean that democracy needs to be changed because it's too close to monarchy.
There's two things wrong with your analogy. First, I doubt you intended this, but you didn't specify which kind of monarchy you were referring to. The government we have is like a constituional monarchy. Second, who said that monarchy was barbaric? Your analogy implies that. In fact, I'd say that Clan x86 operates under a constutional monarchy, Newby is the Queen (yes, the Queen), and the rules are our constituion.
The death penalty is included in Hammurabi's code, I don't think you'll find that same similarity in the definition of a monarch for the president...
Joe, you didn't read the article. FL stopped the death penalty because lethal injections aren't always 100% effective the first time through.
Sidoh, since when did "gruesome" have anything to do with justice?
Hangings are still legal in some states, why shouldn't the guillotine be? It is quicker, more efficient, and more effective than hanging or lethal injections.
How it involves less struggle:
-Dude in FL was administered lethal injection, didn't die so they had to shoot him up again. Because it didn't work right away, he suffered for something like 30 minutes IIRC
-Had he been guillotined he would been dead in a matter of seconds.
Seems like less struggling & suffering to me
Quote from: CrAz3D on December 19, 2006, 05:20:18 PM
Joe, you didn't read the article. FL stopped the death penalty because lethal injections aren't always 100% effective the first time through.
Sidoh, since when did "gruesome" have anything to do with justice?
Hangings are still legal in some states, why shouldn't the guillotine be? It is quicker, more efficient, and more effective than hanging or lethal injections.
How it involves less struggle:
-Dude in FL was administered lethal injection, didn't die so they had to shoot him up again. Because it didn't work right away, he suffered for something like 30 minutes IIRC
-Had he been guillotined he would been dead in a matter of seconds.
Seems like less struggling & suffering to me
IIRC, the last hanging was done over ten years ago and is only currently legal in two out of the fifty states, which have both dismantled their facilities for performing them.
Quote from: Joex86] link=topic=8199.msg103330#msg103330 date=1166566117]
I stand by with what I've said before -- people should have life in prison unless they are too dangerous (IE, escaping and going on a killing spree). To you, what would be more punishment -- life in confinement, bored out of your wits, every day for the rest of your life, or the end? But yeah, if they're an escape mastermind then we're definately not going to let them sit and plot out their escape and killing spree.
I don't think you know what you're talking about... :P
Quote from: Joex86] link=topic=8199.msg103330#msg103330 date=1166566117]
As for a lethal injection, it doesn't hurt, does it? I mean, I've never gotten one obviously, but it can't hurt more than a flu shot. Five minutes after the injection, the on-site doctor declares you dead after checking for a pulse, and from the limited footage of the injections I've seen, your writs and legs and strapped to a table, you're injected, and you die. I've never seen anyone scream / writhe in agnoy or pain, like electric chairs.
Again, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.
Quote from: Joex86] link=topic=8199.msg103330#msg103330 date=1166566117]
Yes, the guillotine was neat back in it's time period (before injections because usable) because it killed them quickly, but how would you rather die -- head chopped off, or injected? And think about your funeral, especially if you want to have an open casket. Your headless form won't be too attactive.
High collared shirt... the funeral argument doesn't do anything.
Quote from: Sidoh on December 19, 2006, 04:51:32 PM
There's two things wrong with your analogy. First, I doubt you intended this, but you didn't specify which kind of monarchy you were referring to. The government we have is like a constituional monarchy. Second, who said that monarchy was barbaric? Your analogy implies that. In fact, I'd say that Clan x86 operates under a constutional monarchy, Newby is the Queen (yes, the Queen), and the rules are our constituion.
It's an analogy; it doesn't necessarily have any sort of direct correlation to what it applies to. I didn't imply it, you inferred it.
And again, I don't think you have much of a clue... :P
Quote from: Lord[nK] on December 19, 2006, 06:31:17 PM
IIRC, the last hanging was done over ten years ago and is only currently legal in two out of the fifty states, which have both dismantled their facilities for performing them.
They've cut all their trees down? :P
Quote from: dark_drake on December 19, 2006, 07:00:58 PM
Quote from: Lord[nK] on December 19, 2006, 06:31:17 PM
IIRC, the last hanging was done over ten years ago and is only currently legal in two out of the fifty states, which have both dismantled their facilities for performing them.
They've cut all their trees down? :P
I was about to ask that.
Anyhow, still legal there
In my opinion, the Death Penalty only works if it is preformed publicly. If it is, people see how bad it is, and don't want to commit the crime. Now, when the "deed" is done, it's inside so only a few people can see it. The reason behind the death penalty is to distroy the idea of commiting a crime like that, and also the idea that you can get away after commiting the crime. I'm not for the death penalty due to the ways that they do it now. If they made it a painful, disturbing public thing I would be for it. There is no sence in hiding something that effects the community.
Quote from: dark_drake on December 19, 2006, 07:00:58 PM
Quote from: Lord[nK] on December 19, 2006, 06:31:17 PM
IIRC, the last hanging was done over ten years ago and is only currently legal in two out of the fifty states, which have both dismantled their facilities for performing them.
They've cut all their trees down? :P
No, but they have destroyed all of their gallows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows), which were the official places of execution.
Quote from: Lord[nK] on December 19, 2006, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: dark_drake on December 19, 2006, 07:00:58 PM
Quote from: Lord[nK] on December 19, 2006, 06:31:17 PM
IIRC, the last hanging was done over ten years ago and is only currently legal in two out of the fifty states, which have both dismantled their facilities for performing them.
They've cut all their trees down? :P
No, but they have destroyed all of their gallows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows), which were the official places of execution.
Man, I'm glad you have a sence of humor. :p
Quote from: Super_X on December 19, 2006, 07:33:14 PM
Quote from: Lord[nK] on December 19, 2006, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: dark_drake on December 19, 2006, 07:00:58 PM
Quote from: Lord[nK] on December 19, 2006, 06:31:17 PM
IIRC, the last hanging was done over ten years ago and is only currently legal in two out of the fifty states, which have both dismantled their facilities for performing them.
They've cut all their trees down? :P
No, but they have destroyed all of their gallows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows), which were the official places of execution.
Man, I'm glad you have a sence of humor. :p
... as long as I have the last word. ;p
Quote from: Sidoh on December 19, 2006, 03:23:28 PM
I think it's human nature. If human nature is barbaric, then I agree.
I would say that human nature is barbaric. I don't think there's anything good about enjoying the death of a person.
Quote from: Super_X on December 19, 2006, 07:27:41 PM
In my opinion, the Death Penalty only works if it is preformed publicly. If it is, people see how bad it is, and don't want to commit the crime. Now, when the "deed" is done, it's inside so only a few people can see it. The reason behind the death penalty is to distroy the idea of commiting a crime like that, and also the idea that you can get away after commiting the crime. I'm not for the death penalty due to the ways that they do it now. If they made it a painful, disturbing public thing I would be for it. There is no sence in hiding something that effects the community.
I actually believe the exact opposite. My biggest problem with the death penalty is that people are impressionable, and when they see justice in killing, I think it becomes more likely that they'll kill for their own personal justice.
Quote from: iago on December 19, 2006, 09:38:38 PM
I would say that human nature is barbaric. I don't think there's anything good about enjoying the death of a person.
Me too. Sorry, that last post made it sound like I didn't believe that, haha.
Despite your despise for the feeling, I would think that it is completely natural to feel the satisfaction of revenge. I'm not trying to use that as justification for the existence of the death penalty, but I thought it was worth mentioning...
Quote from: Sidoh on December 20, 2006, 03:31:36 AM
Quote from: iago on December 19, 2006, 09:38:38 PM
I would say that human nature is barbaric. I don't think there's anything good about enjoying the death of a person.
Me too. Sorry, that last post made it sound like I didn't believe that, haha.
Despite your despise for the feeling, I would think that it is completely natural to feel the satisfaction of revenge. I'm not trying to use that as justification for the existence of the death penalty, but I thought it was worth mentioning...
I agree that it's completely natural. It's also completely natural to fu... er, have sex with multiple mates to have many, many children. That's the natural way. But in what we call the "civilized world," that doesn't happen.
Which is an interesting point -- what's up with people being "civilized"?