http://www.ramcoauctionsinc.com/
I originally signed up just to do it for fun, got way into it and got a lot of help from a few of you all. In the beginning my bud talked about paying me, now that it's pretty close to finished he wants to talk about paying me for the site as well as paying me to maintain it.
I've never done ANYTHING like this before. I know my friend charges $1,200 or so for pages she designs (intricate design, little content). My problem is that I, for the most part, didn't design the layout, merely modified it a fair amount. Should I just create a new design and then charge the ridiculously high amount (That seems stupid, I doubt I'll do that)
I'll probably end up guesstimating how many hours I put in, reduce it by a lot since there was a fair amount of "research" and then charge an hourly rate. Ought I charge the same hourly rate to update? He said it may need to be as frequent as daily; just whenever they have new properties to add, info to change, and things to create (I plan on still adding a few more things to the site to make it a bit more user friendly).
Since some of you HAVE done this sort of thing, what ballpark figure might I want to ask? And because I'd feel bad otherwise, what would be a fair amount (from the main payment to me) to pay those of you who helped me out? (Sidoh especially comes to mind as being a tremendous source of useful and helpful information).
Thanks for any suggestions y'all!
I guess I've never done web design where you charge a static rate. I've always charged by the hour. I think I started out at $15/hour and have ranged up to $25/hour for various sites, but all of my web design jobs have been more steady jobs than they have been contract work, so I'd imagine I could get a lot more if I was just doing random jobs I found off RaC-like services.
To be considerate, I'd try to estimate how much time you spent on the site and let your friend know. I'd come up with a rate and give him a range (like "calculation +/- 10% of that depending how satisfied you are"). It's also important that you make sure you're allowed to use the template you have under the conditions of the site (I assume it's commercial?) and probably fair that you mention that you didn't design it yourself.
Everything I understand in the license says I can use it so long as I give credit and a link, which I've done.
My friend knows it is a free design, he picked it out and sent it to me to work over.
Maybe I'll ask $10/hr and guesstimate 10 hours put into building the site thus far (I know I've put in WAY more time, but so much of that has been trial and error, researching, and just getting help). $100 firstly, maybe, and then for updating the $10/hr
Fuck that charge the hoe 20000 and adgvjvegive me half lol give me half for giving the diea that was supposed to be 20000 two thousand.
trust
Quote from: Trust on June 26, 2007, 12:57:09 AM
Fuck that charge the hoe 20000 and adgvjvegive me half lol give me half for giving the diea that was supposed to be 20000 two thousand.
trust
LOL!
You are fucking trashed
I don't think you should discount all of the hours you spent researching et al. Sometimes, that's part of the job, heh.
That sounds reasonable to me, but I think you should reconsider ignoring all the hours you spent figuring things out, since I assume he "hired" (I use quotes since you made it sound less formal than that) knowing full well that you were new to web design.
He IM'd me saying he was doing a banner for his site, I mentioned I could do something (I'd done a lot of photoshop stuff in the past for him for free). Eventually I said I could help since I've done it, that developed to me doing it (he was put in charge of doing it at his company, either doing it or finding someone). He said he'd pay me for my time.
QuoteWhiTExWeaZel (8:31:22 PM): when you have time i want to dicuss about paying you to help us with doing update
Banana Rules All (8:31:03 PM): <3 bro
Banana Rules All (8:31:05 PM): thanks
WhiTExWeaZel (8:31:43 PM): cuz i will need updates like weekly or even daily
Banana Rules All (8:31:23 PM): ok, cool. can do
WhiTExWeaZel (8:32:08 PM): i still need to pay you a flat fee for the the build too
WhiTExWeaZel (8:32:17 PM): so we can talk about it later when you have tiome
Banana Rules All (8:31:51 PM): sweet bro
Banana Rules All (8:32:17 PM): want to send me $5k so I can get the car? j/k.
but yeah, I'll be on in a couple of hours then we can chat some more
WhiTExWeaZel (8:33:12 PM): ok you may possible make 5k in the long run
WhiTExWeaZel (8:33:12 PM): lol
Banana Rules All (8:32:58 PM): heh, would be nice. off for a while. adios bro
Maybe ask $10/hr 30 hours for main build?
Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me.
You're underpaying yourself. You shouldn't ask for anything less than $20/hour base. I started at $10, and people kept asking me to do stuff. I didn't have the time to do everything, so I had to turn down people, which is just bad marketing. Once I raised to $20/hour, I got a lot less offers, but all of them were pretty decent. Also, discounting friends suck, cause then they refer you at a low ass rate.
So, the moral of this story is: charge a crapload.
Maybe $15?
My friend suggested $15 or so. She charges something like $30/hr after the initial page setup fee (some God awful number like $1200+).
Quote from: CrAz3D on June 26, 2007, 01:02:58 AM
Quote from: Trust on June 26, 2007, 12:57:09 AM
Fuck that charge the hoe 20000 and adgvjvegive me half lol give me half for giving the diea that was supposed to be 20000 two thousand.
trust
LOL!
You are fucking trashed
haha wow...
Quote from: rabbit on June 26, 2007, 09:39:02 AM
You're underpaying yourself. You shouldn't ask for anything less than $20/hour base. I started at $10, and people kept asking me to do stuff. I didn't have the time to do everything, so I had to turn down people, which is just bad marketing. Once I raised to $20/hour, I got a lot less offers, but all of them were pretty decent. Also, discounting friends suck, cause then they refer you at a low ass rate.
So, the moral of this story is: charge a crapload.
I think it depends on a lot more than you're considering. I doubt this will become his steady job.
Quote from: Sidoh on June 26, 2007, 05:05:24 PM
Quote from: rabbit on June 26, 2007, 09:39:02 AM
You're underpaying yourself. You shouldn't ask for anything less than $20/hour base. I started at $10, and people kept asking me to do stuff. I didn't have the time to do everything, so I had to turn down people, which is just bad marketing. Once I raised to $20/hour, I got a lot less offers, but all of them were pretty decent. Also, discounting friends suck, cause then they refer you at a low ass rate.
So, the moral of this story is: charge a crapload.
I think it depends on a lot more than you're considering. I doubt this will become his steady job.
GOD no.
I still work for the lawyer (4 hrs/day) @ $8/hr and will continue this through school.
I just plan on doing web stuff (if any new things arise) in my way spare-time
You need to factor in that this was also a premade layout though.
Quote from: Trust on June 26, 2007, 05:30:41 PM
You need to factor in that this was also a premade layout though.
See: post #1
Quote from: CrAz3D on June 26, 2007, 06:04:50 PM
Quote from: Trust on June 26, 2007, 05:30:41 PM
You need to factor in that this was also a premade layout though.
See: post #1
sorry I think I kind of skipped most of your post last night :P
My company charges varied rates based on what kind of work is being done. For me they charge $200 an hour. I'm not sure what they charge for design or production.
What do you do, though?
What do you get paid though? ;)
I've always found that interesting how they charge $XXX for YOUR time, but then they only pay you $XX. At least that's what I found re: paralegals and whatnot
Quote from: rabbit on June 27, 2007, 09:39:22 AM
What do you do, though?
I'm a senior .NET application developer. I do mostly web backend and mid-tier stuff (I don't make web apps pretty).
I get paid $35 hourly. Not bad for being ~1yr out of college.... Without a CS degree.
Quote from: MyndFyrex86/64] link=topic=9697.msg123264#msg123264 date=1182971683]
Quote from: rabbit on June 27, 2007, 09:39:22 AM
What do you do, though?
I'm a senior .NET application developer. I do mostly web backend and mid-tier stuff (I don't make web apps pretty).
I get paid $35 hourly. Not bad for being ~1yr out of college.... Without a CS degree.
straight up
When doing free lance work, did you create written agreements with whomever you worked for? Also, did you send them monthly bills (my buddy mentioned I'd most likely end up being paid for updating the site monthly/weekly/or even daily if need be).
Ought I do something like that? Create a simple agreement and a billing layout?
The most important thing to do is to incorporate. Look into forming an LLC so that if someone's not happy with what you've done, you're shielded from the guy taking all of your PERSONAL assets.
Second, definitely agree on a contract. Clearly define in your agreement what work is in-scope, because if you don't, you'll create scope creep, and the client won't be happy when you keep having to add additional stuff past the deadline. Remember that contracts can always be amended by the agreement of both parties.
For freelance work, my standard rate is typically anywhere between $55 and $85 hourly. But be sure to bill fairly. Writing one class that adds two numbers is definitely not an hour's worth of time. My rate varies based on the type of work (I charge low usually for design work, for example, because I'm not good at it, but I charge enough to still make money outsourcing - a friend usually would charge $50/hr, minimum 8 hours, to do design work for me, so I charge $55/hr). Development, depending on the client, gets billed at about $85, because I'm good at what I do. If I was going to make a website for the local democratic party, it might be closer to $135/hr.
Be sure to not price yourself too high or too low - too high will disqualify you from the job, and too low will make you seem noobish.
Lol @ the Democrat thing.
I figure I'll charge about $15 straight across the board. Including design, modifications, updates, new things, removing things, image design, etc.
I am a complete newbie to this and it is also for a semi-friend (dude I talk to a lot from my F150 site), that's why I figured I'd charge about $15.
So far I've estimated about 40 hours put in over the last 20 days. Figure I'll charge like $500 for that ($100 less than if calculated at $15/hr), and $15 per hour past the date an agreement is settled upon.
Quote
1. Definitions and Clarifications
1.The agreement is only for work done in relation to the web site http://www.ramcoauctionsinc.com. Any work to be done on another project will require this agreement to be amended and agreed upon by both parties (myself and Ramco Auctions, Inc.) or a new agreement must be created.
2."Work" is meant to include, but not limited to, the following: uploading files, downloading files, researching functions, writing functions, designing layout, modifying layout, creating pages, modifying pages, removing pages, adding properties, modifying properties, removing properties, adding images, modifying images, creating images.
2. Billing
1.Work done will be charged at $15 per hour and calculated to the nearest tenth of an hour for billing purposes.
2.Billing data is to include dates of work performs, description of work performed, the general time of work performed, and a total of the time for the work performed on a specific date followed by a total amount to be charged.
3.A bill containing a total charge amount for the work performed for the current billing cycle will be sent out on or about the 20th of each month. Payment is expected in full and on, or reasonably close to, the 15th of the following month. (i.e. A bill will be sent out July 20th and payment will be expected on or reasonably near August 15th)
4.In the event of two or more missed or incomplete payments, interest will begin to acrue at the rate of 10% per year or .833% per month. Interest will continue to grow until the entire amount is paid in full plus the acrued interest.
3. Miscellaneous
1.There is no guarantee on any work, only an effort in good faith on my part that the pages will be as intended.
2.There is no guarantee on my availability to work on the web site. I am a full-time student and hold a separate part-time job, however, I do feel that I have enough time outside of class and my part-time job to be able to perform satisfactory work on Ramco Auctions, Inc.'s web site.
That's what agreement stuff I've come up with.
Are you a corporation? Are there fees (man, I should really know this from either my business class and/or working for a lawyer that does incorporations ::))
Well, it's all settled.
$250 for what has been done so far (low I know, but when I started it was just a fun project) and $50/month for continued updates of simple things (editing/adding/removing properties, editing/adding/removing simple web pages). Complex page adding/editing will be apart of an agreement if so needed.
One thing that you should have considered is standing up for yourself on price. Not to say that you didn't do well, but look at it this way - they are making bank. One sale will more than pay for an entire year of your work even at $30/hr.
A similar but more robust site that my company made is http://www.m3landandhomes.com/. They charged somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 for the site, and maintenance/additional features are billed hourly.
These people have the money. You don't need to feel bad about standing up for yourself and your work.
Quote from: MyndFyrex86/64] link=topic=9697.msg123291#msg123291 date=1183012634]
They charged somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 for the site, and maintenance/additional features are billed hourly.
These people have the money. You don't need to feel bad about standing up for yourself and your work.
Surely you mean $4000 and not $40,000. The site is professional looking, but it's extremely simple. It's something most hobbyists could build in a weekend. If those people have money I suppose that's just more support for this passage from Ecclesiastes,
"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth".
Quote from: MyndFyrex86/64] link=topic=9697.msg123291#msg123291 date=1183012634]
One thing that you should have considered is standing up for yourself on price. Not to say that you didn't do well, but look at it this way - they are making bank. One sale will more than pay for an entire year of your work even at $30/hr.
A similar but more robust site that my company made is http://www.m3landandhomes.com/. They charged somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 for the site, and maintenance/additional features are billed hourly.
These people have the money. You don't need to feel bad about standing up for yourself and your work.
Well, thing is when I started we didn't even discuss payment. It wasn't until the barebones of the site was up that he mentioned it.
Hopefully the $50/month for updating will be a good figure. We said we'd revisit it at the end of July.
Quote from: Rule on June 28, 2007, 03:15:10 AM
Quote from: MyndFyrex86/64] link=topic=9697.msg123291#msg123291 date=1183012634]
They charged somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 for the site, and maintenance/additional features are billed hourly.
These people have the money. You don't need to feel bad about standing up for yourself and your work.
Surely you mean $4000 and not $40,000. The site is professional looking, but it's extremely simple. It's something most hobbyists could build in a weekend. If those people have money I suppose that's just more support for this passage from Ecclesiastes,
"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth".
I'm not sure which of their sites it is we've done (which URL, I mean) - but the one I was referring to is the one that corresponds to this staging web site: http://m3lh.terralever.com/.
You don't see a lot of the stuff in the back-end, because you're not in the administrator, but we also built functionality to integrate the site's database into the MLS service. Each day they upload a ~7-10mb file that contains the updates and new listings, including photographs, and the like, which we parse out and integrate into their site automatically. Unfortunately, the MLS doesn't provide a way for us to query their DB directly.
At $200/hr, that's 200 hours - five man-weeks. For the kind of functionality, I don't think it's out of the ballpark.
:o
Wow.
Even though my friend and his company didn't quite get as much as what you all created, it seems to be that they got a rather decent deal from me...hmm.
What would be a good place (online) to solicit myself for simple web things for the time being?
$25/hour
O..haha :P I read "price".
You could try rentacoder.com, or if you want to try and find something specific, craigslist.org.
okey dokey, thanks yo