Clan x86
General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: AntiVirus on March 28, 2006, 01:13:58 pm
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Are you guys for or against it? I know right now in Missouri there is a big push for it to be allowed.
So, before I state what I think I want to hear from some of you.
What do you think about Stem Cell Research?
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Allow it. There is no good reason not to (it is not a right to life question) and it helps save lives.
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Allow it. There is no good reason not to (it is not a right to life question) and it helps save lives.
And that is where the argument lies. It is for some people a right to life question.
When doing this they take the nucleus from the egg and the sperm cells and put them together. Once that is done the scientists have 14 days before brain development begins.
So since there is potential for it to turn into a human it does have to do with the right to life question. All they need to do is insert it into a womb.
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I have no opposition to the research, but how the stem cells are obtained..well, if baby farming starts I'll be very displeased, but if a stillborn or something is donated, go for it.
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Allow it. There is no good reason not to (it is not a right to life question) and it helps save lives.
And that is where the argument lies. It is for some people a right to life question.
When doing this they take the nucleus from the egg and the sperm cells and put them together. Once that is done the scientists have 14 days before brain development begins.
So since there is potential for it to turn into a human it does have to do with the right to life question. All they need to do is insert it into a womb.
Just because the brain hasn't developed, it doesn't mean that the fetus is not human. It may be a human being with a soul and everything from the moment of conception. There is no evidence (and I don't think it's possible to find evidence) that the human doesn't become human instantly.
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Children are and should be born by a female and a male reproduction and birth procress. Simply taking and using stem cells and saying it is morally wrong, is like saying your never morally right for wanting to continue science to help the sick, dying and suffering.
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Children are and should be born by a female and a male reproduction and birth procress. Simply taking and using stem cells and saying it is morally wrong, is like saying your never morally right for wanting to continue science to help the sick, dying and suffering.
It has nothing to do with not wanting to help people. It has to do with the possibility that you're killing a human being (which we call murder) in order to help people. As much as it would be nice to be able to kill people if it will benefit more, our society just doesn't work like that.
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I have no opposition to the research, but how the stem cells are obtained..well, if baby farming starts I'll be very displeased, but if a stillborn or something is donated, go for it.
There are ill-moralled people that exist in this world. If stem cell research is allowed, I think it's inevitable that this will start at some time.
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Depending upon how stuff is obtained, go for it.
I don't know enough, though, to make a big decision.
What stages do the scientists work on these embryos?
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Children are and should be born by a female and a male reproduction and birth procress. Simply taking and using stem cells and saying it is morally wrong, is like saying your never morally right for wanting to continue science to help the sick, dying and suffering.
It has nothing to do with not wanting to help people. It has to do with the possibility that you're killing a human being (which we call murder) in order to help people. As much as it would be nice to be able to kill people if it will benefit more, our society just doesn't work like that.
Really, a cell is a human being? I never knew that.
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Children are and should be born by a female and a male reproduction and birth procress. Simply taking and using stem cells and saying it is morally wrong, is like saying your never morally right for wanting to continue science to help the sick, dying and suffering.
It has nothing to do with not wanting to help people. It has to do with the possibility that you're killing a human being (which we call murder) in order to help people. As much as it would be nice to be able to kill people if it will benefit more, our society just doesn't work like that.
Really, a cell is a human being? I never knew that.
And you wonder why people flame you?
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Allow it. There is no good reason not to (it is not a right to life question) and it helps save lives.
And that is where the argument lies. It is for some people a right to life question.
When doing this they take the nucleus from the egg and the sperm cells and put them together. Once that is done the scientists have 14 days before brain development begins.
So since there is potential for it to turn into a human it does have to do with the right to life question. All they need to do is insert it into a womb.
Just because the brain hasn't developed, it doesn't mean that the fetus is not human. It may be a human being with a soul and everything from the moment of conception. There is no evidence (and I don't think it's possible to find evidence) that the human doesn't become human instantly.
I think you misunderstood what I said iago. I completly agree with you on what you just said and that was what I was trying to convey in my last post. Sorry if it didn't turn out that way. :)
Children are and should be born by a female and a male reproduction and birth procress. Simply taking and using stem cells and saying it is morally wrong, is like saying your never morally right for wanting to continue science to help the sick, dying and suffering.
It has nothing to do with not wanting to help people. It has to do with the possibility that you're killing a human being (which we call murder) in order to help people. As much as it would be nice to be able to kill people if it will benefit more, our society just doesn't work like that.
Really, a cell is a human being? I never knew that.
Well it depends Gamesnake. Once the sperm and the egg meet that is when the baby starts to form. It starts out as a single celled organism and then multiplies. So to answer your question you would need to know when an embryo is a human and when it's just a clump of cells.
I for one think that stem cell research is wrong and that it is murder. I feel that if it is allowed this will lead to many other things that could hurt people for science. I also think that once the sperm and the egg meet and divide that is when a human is created. So to me what they are doing is murder.
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Just because the brain hasn't developed, it doesn't mean that the fetus is not human. It may be a human being with a soul and everything from the moment of conception. There is no evidence (and I don't think it's possible to find evidence) that the human doesn't become human instantly.
Holy shit! iago, I was wrong about you! You *aren't* a completely lost cause!
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Just because the brain hasn't developed, it doesn't mean that the fetus is not human. It may be a human being with a soul and everything from the moment of conception. There is no evidence (and I don't think it's possible to find evidence) that the human doesn't become human instantly.
Holy shit! iago, I was wrong about you! You *aren't* a completely lost cause!
I know, I was surprised when *he* said that too. :D
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As long as they don't "farm" the fetuses (feti?) it's fine with me.
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Fuck children, clones ftw.
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As long as they don't "farm" the fetuses (feti?) it's fine with me.
They have made suggestions to go to poverty stricken countries and get the fetus from the women there by ways of bribing with cash...
I they would have to farm the fetus. Like I said above, it takes 14 days before they have to stop using that cell because of brain development. So if it took them 30+ years to get something out of Adult Stem Cells it's going to take them just as long if not longer tol get information from the embryonic (word?) type stem cells, so that means they will have to go through a lot of different eggs and sperm matches before they find something. And bribing people for their eggs isn't going to be enough to supply them with what they need..
[Edit]
Fuck children, clones ftw.
Well according to the "Wired" magazine when cloning a human only 75% of Nuclear Transfer is succesful, 4% of Cell Division is successful and then 0% for Embryo Transfer/Live Birth success... So overall the cloning of a human is 0% efficient. :)
Children FTW. :)
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Yea but according to research back in the 1800's curing Smallpox had a %0 possibility. Things change.
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Just because the brain hasn't developed, it doesn't mean that the fetus is not human. It may be a human being with a soul and everything from the moment of conception. There is no evidence (and I don't think it's possible to find evidence) that the human doesn't become human instantly.
Holy shit! iago, I was wrong about you! You *aren't* a completely lost cause!
I know, I was surprised when *he* said that too. :D
It's not like I believe it. It's more fun to argue the side that I don't believe, though :)
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I don't have a reason to be against stem cell research, but I am; it may simply be the religious background I have, or the fact that I believe humans have a marked lifespan and shouldn't change that.
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I don't have a reason to be against stem cell research, but I am; it may simply be the religious background I have, or the fact that I believe humans have a marked lifespan and shouldn't change that.
I assume you're against medicine too, then?
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Yea but according to research back in the 1800's curing Smallpox had a %0 possibility. Things change.
Well considering that they were uneducated and didn't really know what bacteria or a virus could really do, that doesn't surprise me. :)
And yes, eventually all that will change, but for now it wont. So Clones NFTW. :)Just because the brain hasn't developed, it doesn't mean that the fetus is not human. It may be a human being with a soul and everything from the moment of conception. There is no evidence (and I don't think it's possible to find evidence) that the human doesn't become human instantly.
Holy shit! iago, I was wrong about you! You *aren't* a completely lost cause!
I know, I was surprised when *he* said that too. :D
It's not like I believe it. It's more fun to argue the side that I don't believe, though :)
BOO!! I think you should believe it. :D
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Because we have no idea where this could lead, it might even hold the key for extending human lives by MANY years. I think the possiblity over sucessful treatments with stemcells GREATLY outweighs what the opposeing side to this arguement has to say.
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Because we have no idea where this could lead, it might even hold the key for extending human lives by MANY years. I think the possiblity over sucessful treatments with stemcells GREATLY outweighs what the opposeing side to this arguement has to say.
Would you think it's ok to murder an innocent grown man if it helps out others? This could be viewed as the same thing.
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We squash bugs, we slaughter many cattle, why is ONE DAMN CELL so important to everyone?
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Curing disease and extending lifespan are usually mutually exclusive.
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We squash bugs, we slaughter many cattle, why is ONE DAMN CELL so important to everyone?
Because the one cell is human.
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Our country would be much better off if all of the religious conservatives died in a freak gasoline fight accident.
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Zoolander owns
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In iago's theory, I turned 16 four days ago. =)
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No, that's 6 months. I turned 16 in January.
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Because we have no idea where this could lead, it might even hold the key for extending human lives by MANY years. I think the possiblity over sucessful treatments with stemcells GREATLY outweighs what the opposeing side to this arguement has to say.
Would you think it's ok to murder an innocent grown man if it helps out others? This could be viewed as the same thing.
Emphasis on could. Anyways, can a fetus process thoughts at such an early stage anyways? People already get their babies aborted, so why not use those tword stem cell research? What you said strengthens my point, imo, that what the opposing side has to say doesnt outweigh the benefite that it could possible have. (I think you are just argueing on the other side for the fun of it ;) )
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Emphasis on could. Anyways, can a fetus process thoughts at such an early stage anyways? People already get their babies aborted, so why not use those tword stem cell research? What you said strengthens my point, imo, that what the opposing side has to say doesnt outweigh the benefite that it could possible have. (I think you are just argueing on the other side for the fun of it ;) )
iago (nor anyone in this thread, if I'm not mistaken) ever said abortion was moral. That's another argument.
Regardless of the stage of the stage in the embryo's development (or zygote, for that matter), ripping its constituents appart is still taking away potential life.
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In iago's theory, I turned 16 four days ago. =)
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No, that's 6 months. I turned 16 in January.
Typically, you measure your age based on your birthday, not the day you were created.
Emphasis on could. Anyways, can a fetus process thoughts at such an early stage anyways? People already get their babies aborted, so why not use those tword stem cell research? What you said strengthens my point, imo, that what the opposing side has to say doesnt outweigh the benefite that it could possible have. (I think you are just argueing on the other side for the fun of it ;) )
Abortion has the same problem. The fetus or zygote whatever is the start of a life, and there's no way of knowing whether it is human or not. I've pretty much convinced myself through lots of consideration and contemplation that there is a part of humans that isn't physical, that can't be touched, or felt, or scanned. The part could be called a soul, if you're religious (which I'm not). I don't know at which point in the creation of a human that he gets this soul, but it seems logical that it happens at the moment of conception.
(Incidentally, I'm not going to go out and condemn abortion or stem cell research, far from it. But I really think that people need to think more carefully about killing an innocent human to heal others)
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We squash bugs, we slaughter many cattle, why is ONE DAMN CELL so important to everyone?
Because the one cell is human.
ONE cell isn't human! Stem cells in animals are primal undifferentiated cells that retain the ability to divide and differentiate into other cell types. In higher plants this function is the defining property of the meristematic cells. Stem cells have the ability to act as a repair system for the body, because they can divide and differentiate, replenishing other cells as long as the host organism is alive.
Medical researchers believe stem cell research has the potential to change the face of human disease by being used to repair specific tissues or to grow organs. Yet there is general agreement that, "significant technical hurdles remain that will only be overcome through years of intensive research."[1]
We need "intensive research", by pushing back the research with a stupid debate like this, we may never see the benefits of stem cells in our life time.
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ONE cell isn't human!
It develops into a full person. I'd say that makes it human.
Plus, read my previous post.
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We squash bugs, we slaughter many cattle, why is ONE DAMN CELL so important to everyone?
Because the one cell is human.
ONE cell isn't human! Stem cells in animals are primal undifferentiated cells that retain the ability to divide and differentiate into other cell types. In higher plants this function is the defining property of the meristematic cells. Stem cells have the ability to act as a repair system for the body, because they can divide and differentiate, replenishing other cells as long as the host organism is alive.
Medical researchers believe stem cell research has the potential to change the face of human disease by being used to repair specific tissues or to grow organs. Yet there is general agreement that, "significant technical hurdles remain that will only be overcome through years of intensive research."[1]
We need "intensive research", by pushing back the research with a stupid debate like this, we may never see the benefits of stem cells in our life time.
You're silly. Just because America isn't doing it doesn't mean other countries aren't as well. :)
So we will see it eventually if America doesn't allow it. :D
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America won't, but I'm sure alot of other countries would. Maybe even evil countrys looking to make a mass-cloned army?
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America won't, but I'm sure alot of other countries would. Maybe even evil countrys looking to make a mass-cloned army?
Z0mg I thought you thought that America *was* an evil country!
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America won't, but I'm sure alot of other countries would. Maybe even evil countrys looking to make a mass-cloned army?
Stem cell research isn't all about cloning it only helps understand some of it.. And I highly doubt that the US would allow a country to go and make a cloned army. :)
P.S.
Other countries are already doing stem cell research.
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America won't, but I'm sure alot of other countries would. Maybe even evil countrys looking to make a mass-cloned army?
Z0mg I thought you thought that America *was* an evil country!
America is evil in a different way, obviously.
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Stem cell research isn't all about cloning it only helps understand some of it.. And I highly doubt that the US would allow a country to go and make a cloned army. :)
P.S.
Other countries are already doing stem cell research.
Cloning would be a useful method in harvesting embryos to extract stem cells -- that's what we're saying is ill-moraled.
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Stem cell research isn't all about cloning it only helps understand some of it.. And I highly doubt that the US would allow a country to go and make a cloned army. :)
P.S.
Other countries are already doing stem cell research.
Cloning would be a useful method in harvesting embryos to extract stem cells -- that's what we're saying is ill-moraled.
Yep, and I agree with that. But right now cloning a human is scientifically impossible, but maybe in the future things will change. :)
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Yep, and I agree with that. But right now cloning a human is scientifically impossible, but maybe in the future things will change. :)
I think the only reason it's possible is because research on the matter has been hindered by legal intervention (not that I don't agree with it).
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Yep, and I agree with that. But right now cloning a human is scientifically impossible, but maybe in the future things will change. :)
I think the only reason it's possible is because research on the matter has been hindered by legal intervention (not that I don't agree with it).
Well lets hope things don't change too much. I rather like a clone-free world. :)
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Yep, and I agree with that. But right now cloning a human is scientifically impossible, but maybe in the future things will change. :)
I think the only reason it's possible is because research on the matter has been hindered by legal intervention (not that I don't agree with it).
Such things could quite possibly be legal in other countries, or just deliberately failing to stop it. I don't doubt the fact that a human has already been cloned somewhere.
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Such things could quite possibly be legal in other countries, or just deliberately failing to stop it. I don't doubt the fact that a human has already been cloned somewhere.
I have serious doubts that one has successfully been produced in the public scientific community (that's where it matters), but you're right. It's definitely possible that it's been done.
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JUST FUCKING KILL THE BABIES
WE NEED THEM STEMCELLS.
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I am absolutely against stem cell research. I believe that when an opportunity to impede scientific progress arises, we are under a moral obligation to take it. Anything that could possibly develop into human life should be protected; so it is natural that I should want to sexually molest as many women as I can. To waste my sperm without guilt would be to deny the reality that these sperm are only a few steps from starting a process which could possibly lead to human life. If I feel that it is necessary to make sexual advances towards a nearby able female of the same species, then by all means it is her duty to cooperate -- I cannot understand why society would believe otherwise. By the way, masturbation is cognitive dissonance.
Then again, I cannot understand the argument that stem cell research should be acceptable to us "pro-lifers" because a majority of it is done with fetuses from fertility clinics that would have gone to complete waste anyways. I, oh I mean "we", do not believe in fertility clinics. Allowing the abandoned undeveloped fetuses to be used in a way that would advance science would be an indirect acknowledgement that we somehow support fertility clinics. It is better to let the fetuses be thrown out and discarded than to risk appearing hypocritical or
supportive of an unwholesome operation.
Besides, why should advancing science and medicine to save millions that are suffering be so important anyways?
If someone is suffering, it is meant to be that way, and we would be interfering with nature to help them. I have been taught by my family that this is wrong. If someone gets seriously injured around me, they better hope that
someone other than me is close by to call an ambulance for them. You may feel that I am hypocritical, but I have only been to the emergency room 3 times: once because a carrot attacked my private region, and the other two times were to give those doctors a piece of my mind. Anyone who thinks it is noble to want a career in medicine is lacking in moral fortitude.
You may be thinking: "shouldn't I be protecting single celled organisms because they may one day evolve into a human form?" Indeed I should, but let's not discuss that too much because it will make my arguments seem less credible. Besides, I choose not to understand evolution, and I'll get to that later. I generally like to deem people murderers once they interfere with fertilized eggs. It may seem arbitrary where I draw this line: after all, a fertilized egg is not introspective, aware, capable of feeling, or even conscious at all -- and it will take many stages of development and quite a bit of time to become a recognizable human. However, it seems that restricting my arguments to fertilized eggs is more effective for pushing my moral judgements onto other people. Maybe it's because we started arguing from this point long ago, and the ball just started rolling. You'd be amazed how effective just repeating your argument over and over again can be. Soon what you are saying is somehow recognized as a rational point, and then the arguments start to take place under this premise. I do it all the time. And don't forget to obfuscate your arguments with words like "cognitive dissonance": it's a good way of shutting people down.
Oh, and don't think that any life is more valuable than human "life": even if we are comparing creatures that are unarguably more intelligent and aware than any fertilized egg, and even compared to some humans. It is obvious that humans are logically very different and special from all other animals. It is OK to murder other intelligent animals but not humans, because we are introspective. No, I don't have proof that other animals aren't, it's obvious you fool. And don't pull that "evolution" nonsense on me, because it's obvious that's a load of garbage. Most educated scientists and academics recognize Darwin's evolution as an important theory, but then again, most of these same people are against everything that I stand for. It saddens me to think that our great species could be connected to other lowly animals. Even Darwin himself didn't believe in his theories. I don't have a source for that, but it's common knowledge.
Good game.
P.S. Do you really want to run the risk of having human clone armies?