Photograph police, go to jail

[Warrior]

That is pretty lame. but that is Brits for you.

And that's the direction Obama is taking us! Hooray!

CrAz3D-worthy post.  Also why are Americans so anti-everywhere else?  It honestly comes off as indoctrinated faux patriotism, to divert the masses from finding fault with their own system.  That, mixed with insecurity.  When people around the world have talked to me about Americans, generally they say the most off-putting quality is the "with us or against us" mentality over there.  In general, the British, and the French, have done extremely well. 

Everywhere else sucks balls.  AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

England sucks.  Less freedom, worse food and just generally suckage.  France is slightly better (I didnt just say that).

And yes, obama (and all of govt) is taking us that way.

This thread is about using terrorism as a front for removing freedoms. This is a trademark of the Bush Administration.

Damn it.  I'm trying to find a cartoon that came out a few days ago re: obama.

It had him in the oval office and staffers were "carrying out" W's policies, but Obama saw the "FEAR" one and kept it so he could use it for the bail out (which is what Washington is doing now).

Yes, because telling the truth about a bailout (Do I need to whip out the job loss chart again?) and using Terrorism as a means to suspend habeus corpus, torture prisoners, and tap phone lines, are comparable.

Moron.

[CrAz3D]

Oh wait, you mean when the Obama administration wanted to hold off for another year before charging gitmo people, but the military courts said NO to him?  That kind of suspension of habeas corpus?

[Warrior]

Oh wait, you mean when the Obama administration wanted to hold off for another year before charging gitmo people, but the military courts said NO to him?  That kind of suspension of habeas corpus?

His request was to suspend Terrorism trials for 120 days, while he reviewed the terrible state Bush had left Guantanamo Bay in. It's not like they've had a speedy trial up to now, some are being held with no documentation, the paperwork in Guantanamo is woefully incomplete.

Do you realize it's now close to impossible to convict a great number of those held at Guantanamo? Bush and his cowboy politics have tainted every bit of possible evidence, and has not kept any paperwork on anything going on behind closed doors at Guantanamo.

It might as well be a Nazi Death camp.

In the meantime, those held (~250 iirc) will be transfered out of Guantanamo while Obama reviews his options which could effect the would-be trials of those detained.

So no, there is no suspension of habeas corpus, those people have been charged already, Obama is merely suspending the trials until the evidence (or lack thereof) can be gathered.

You must really hate the Constitution.

[leet_muffin]

You must really hate the Constitution.

Lol'd, seriously lol'd.

[Warrior]

It's ironic, he claims he supports Ron Paul, but shamelessly supports the torture of humans (terrorists, serial killers, rapists, anyone) at Guantanamo.

Some people seem to think it's okay because they're alleged terrorists, but to me, they're human beings, and no one should be subject to torture in a modern nation, let alone a democracy.

The entire conservative agenda is a deck of cards, conflicting ideologies who's only purpose is to prop up another twisted delusion, most likely a human rights violation.

How the hell are we supposed to "Spread Democracy" through the world if the examples we show is that we're an aggressive nation building country which tortures it's captives? It's pathetic.

[Sidoh]

It's ironic, he claims he supports Ron Paul, but shamelessly supports the torture of humans (terrorists, serial killers, rapists, anyone) at Guantanamo.

Some people seem to think it's okay because they're alleged terrorists, but to me, they're human beings, and no one should be subject to torture in a modern nation, let alone a democracy.

The entire conservative agenda is a deck of cards, conflicting ideologies who's only purpose is to prop up another twisted delusion, most likely a human rights violation.

How the hell are we supposed to "Spread Democracy" through the world if the examples we show is that we're an aggressive nation building country which tortures it's captives? It's pathetic.

I completely agree on the torture issue, but I don't agree that us being a democracy makes us any more or less obligated to behave morally.

[Warrior]

Well, we're selling a product: (Democracy)
We champion it around the world as this ideal Government where the people have rights, human rights are respected, etc.

So if we're not even respecting one of the selling points of our product, why should people want to buy? If what we're advertising a harsher dictatorship style Government, then us torturing would not be as unbelievably hypocritical.

We used freedom, patriotism, and democracy as a front to advance the globalist agenda of the neoconservative traitors.
I think President Obama's closing of Guantanamo, Attorney General Eric Holder's statement that Water boarding is Torture, and that the United States does not torture, to be a very refreshing break from the cowboy politics of the Bush Administration.

[warz]

no.

[Sidoh]

Well, we're selling a product: (Democracy)
We champion it around the world as this ideal Government where the people have rights, human rights are respected, etc.

So if we're not even respecting one of the selling points of our product, why should people want to buy? If what we're advertising a harsher dictatorship style Government, then us torturing would not be as unbelievably hypocritical.

We used freedom, patriotism, and democracy as a front to advance the globalist agenda of the neoconservative traitors.
I think President Obama's closing of Guantanamo, Attorney General Eric Holder's statement that Water boarding is Torture, and that the United States does not torture, to be a very refreshing break from the cowboy politics of the Bush Administration.

I'm speaking purely in a philosophic ethics context.  I'm not remarking on the apparent hypocrisy.

Honestly, I'm not sold on democracy.

[Warrior]

Well, we're selling a product: (Democracy)
We champion it around the world as this ideal Government where the people have rights, human rights are respected, etc.

So if we're not even respecting one of the selling points of our product, why should people want to buy? If what we're advertising a harsher dictatorship style Government, then us torturing would not be as unbelievably hypocritical.

We used freedom, patriotism, and democracy as a front to advance the globalist agenda of the neoconservative traitors.
I think President Obama's closing of Guantanamo, Attorney General Eric Holder's statement that Water boarding is Torture, and that the United States does not torture, to be a very refreshing break from the cowboy politics of the Bush Administration.

I'm speaking purely in a philosophic ethics context.  I'm not remarking on the apparent hypocrisy.

Honestly, I'm not sold on democracy.

Ah, I see what you mean.

[truste1]

Well, we're selling a product: (Democracy)
We champion it around the world as this ideal Government where the people have rights, human rights are respected, etc.

So if we're not even respecting one of the selling points of our product, why should people want to buy? If what we're advertising a harsher dictatorship style Government, then us torturing would not be as unbelievably hypocritical.

We used freedom, patriotism, and democracy as a front to advance the globalist agenda of the neoconservative traitors.
I think President Obama's closing of Guantanamo, Attorney General Eric Holder's statement that Water boarding is Torture, and that the United States does not torture, to be a very refreshing break from the cowboy politics of the Bush Administration.

The thing is, nothing in life is perfect. There's always giving and there's always taking. To be cliche, you can't have your cake and eat it too. The most noticeable of this (for me) is trying to please your body and your mind...in many cases you can't do this. Some things you know you shouldn't do in your mind your body wants to do due to natural urges and instincts. Your mind, being the more developed of the two, keeps your body in check most of the time...but sometimes you cave to the physical pressure. This is also true of running a country. Our Constitution, the equivalent of the mind, is one of the most brilliant documents ever constructed. I think strict adherence to it would be a good thing.

However, a government is not a collection of brilliant words -- instead, it is a collection of mortal human beings with flaws. Democracy is a product we're trying to sell, and perhaps we shouldn't be...but it's an improvement upon other forms of government. Sadly, it is not what we a) need b) want or c) are supposed to have. The framers were against Democracy, instead we should have a Republic like they intended. Somehow there was a switch and nobody really realized it. Now we're on our way to self-destruction.