Joe's Sig

[Ender]

x86] link=topic=7039.msg87429#msg87429 date=1155619522]

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.

What if God punishes those who believe in God and rewards those who don't?

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Assuming it's the Christian God, that would never happen. That would be going totally against his own word (The Bible).

[Ender]

But how can you assume the god you revere is the right god? If you're wrong, then the right god could punish you  for revering the wrong god more so than he/she/it/(.*) would punish an agnostic.

The point made in Joe's quote is known as Pascal's Wager. And it's a logical fallacy.

[Sidoh]

But how can you assume the god you revere is the right god? If you're wrong, then the right god could punish you  for revering the wrong god more so than he/she/it/(.*) would punish an agnostic.

The point made in Joe's quote is known as Pascal's Wager. And it's a logical fallacy.

Because the people you're speaking to are Christians.  They believe in the Christian God.  They don't consider the possibility of anything other than the omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent being illustrated by Christianity.

[skip]

But how can you assume the god you revere is the right god? If you're wrong, then the right god could punish you  for revering the wrong god more so than he/she/it/(.*) would punish an agnostic.

The point made in Joe's quote is known as Pascal's Wager. And it's a logical fallacy.

Because the people you're speaking to are Christians.  They believe in the Christian God.  They don't consider the possibility of anything other than the omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent being illustrated by Christianity.

Exactly. There is no "if the Christian God is real.." in me.

[Armin]

Not sure if you knew this or not, yet just about every major religion out there, believes in the same exact god: the God of Abraham. Christians, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, etc. The only thing that really differs in their beliefs are the way the worship their God, and whether or not they believe Jesus Christ was God's son, or just a messanger of God.

If God does exist, and it just happens to not be the God of Abraham, then he really sucks at gathering followers, as the majority of the world's religious people believe in the God of Abraham.

[Sidoh]

Not sure if you knew this or not, yet just about every major religion out there, believes in the same exact god: the God of Abraham. Christians, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, etc. The only thing that really differs in their beliefs are the way the worship their God, and whether or not they believe Jesus Christ was God's son, or just a messanger of God.

Hinduism is definitely a major religion.  It promotes polytheism, correct?  I don't see how it could exalt the same god as all of the others you've listed.  Buddism is another example of a major religion that doesn't follow your template.

Also, the texts of the religion define the god.  They clarify his expectations; they create the laws that define the religion itself.  The gods worshiped in each respective religion may have "originated" from the same "source," but I think it's pretty clear that they're different gods.

[Armin]

Not sure if you knew this or not, yet just about every major religion out there, believes in the same exact god: the God of Abraham. Christians, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, etc. The only thing that really differs in their beliefs are the way the worship their God, and whether or not they believe Jesus Christ was God's son, or just a messanger of God.

No need to point that out when I didn't say "every".

Also, the texts of the religion define the god.  They clarify his expectations; they create the laws that define the religion itself.  The gods worshiped in each respective religion may have "originated" from the same "source," but I think it's pretty clear that they're different gods.

I definately have to disagree with you on that one. The God of Abraham will always be the God of Abraham. They all originated from the same source. The source just doesn't automatically change to another God. These religions only became seperate because people had different ideas on worshipping the God of Abraham, along with other disagreements.

[Sidoh]

No need to point that out when I didn't say "every".

Hinduism is thought to be the oldest existing religion.  Excluding some of the most dominant religions in your generalization makes it nearly useless. :-\

Also, make sure to read my edit.  Sorry if I posted it too late.

[Armin]

Hinduism is thought to be the oldest existing religion.  Excluding some of the most dominant religions in your generalization makes it nearly useless. :-\

I edited that post to be more clear about what I meant.

Also, make sure to read my edit.  Sorry if I posted it too late.

Yeah, I caught it, edited my post as well.

[Joe]

Hinduism is thought to be the oldest existing religion.

I doubt it's much older than Judaism.

[Sidoh]

I definately have to disagree with you on that one. The God of Abraham will always be the God of Abraham. They all originated from the same source. The source just doesn't automatically change to another God. These religions only became seperate because people had different ideas on worshipping the God of Abraham, along with other disagreements.

As I've already mentioned, the religions that worship their respective gods define his expectations.  They make clear what has been mandated by their god in order to recieve salvation.  They make explict what miracles he has performed and it is the religions that define the actions of their god that brought about the world as we know it.

As you can see, a religion which illustrates an entirely different being is exclusively inseparable from itself.  Its god cannot be separated and compared to another god of a separate religion.

I do understand your point and agree with it to some degree, but the gods are different.  The ways that they are worshipped are different.  The way that this "same god" dictates life to the followers of the religion is different.  The religions are different.

The only thing that really differs in their beliefs are the way the worship their God, and whether or not they believe Jesus Christ was God's son, or just a messanger of God.

That is a significant difference, even if it was the only one (it's not).

Christianity revolves around Jesus Christ.  It is totally contingent on the belief that Christ is the savior of all human kind and, through him, eternal salvation is acessable.

x86] link=topic=7066.msg87711#msg87711 date=1155699293]
I doubt it's much older than Judaism.

It doesn't matter in the least that Judaism is even close to being as old as Hinduism.  My point (as I hope you were able to recognize) was that Hinduism is an ancient, widely accepted religion which contradicts MM's generalization of religions.

Don't make irrelevant points.

Also, I hope that your doubt is a belief.  If Hinduism is older than Judiasm, it totally nullifies and disproves Christianity and Judiasm.  While it may have not had the same name long before the time of Jesus, it was the same religion.

[rabbit]

x86] link=topic=7066.msg87711#msg87711 date=1155699293]

Hinduism is thought to be the oldest existing religion.

I doubt it's much older than Judaism.

Well DUH.  Your religion and its origin (Judaism) state that there wasn't religion before it came along, so of course you won't accept anything as being older.  In the real world, Hinduism is CONSIDERABLY older than Judaism.