Author Topic: NocturnalLogic  (Read 17394 times)

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Offline Camel

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2008, 08:50:39 PM »
├───[linux users]
    ├───[need to]:
        ├───give up the animosity
        ├───[AND]
        ├───save their hatred

How's that?

The 'to' comes from the infinitive form of 'give;' you've split it.

Way to split iago's infinitive.

<Camel> i said what what
<Blaze> in the butt
<Camel> you want to do it in my butt?
<Blaze> in my butt
<Camel> let's do it in the butt
<Blaze> Okay!

Offline iago

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2008, 08:51:08 PM »
├───[linux users]
    ├───[need to]:
        ├───give up the animosity
        ├───[AND]
        ├───save their hatred

How's that?
Bad, it doesn't work like that. "give" and "save" are both verbs, which need to be preceded by "to".

Offline Newby

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2008, 08:52:02 PM »
In my case, they're suggestions or commands.

"You need to clean the dishes, vacuum the floor, and mow the lawn."

Nobody says "you need to clean the dishes, to vacuum the floor, and to mow the lawn."
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http://www.x86labs.org

Quote
[17:32:45] * xar sets mode: -oooooooooo algorithm ban chris cipher newby stdio TehUser tnarongi|away vursed warz
[17:32:54] * xar sets mode: +o newby
[17:32:58] <xar> new rule
[17:33:02] <xar> me and newby rule all

I'd bet that you're currently bloated like a water ballon on a hot summer's day.

That analogy doesn't even make sense.  Why would a water balloon be especially bloated on a hot summer's day? For your sake, I hope there wasn't too much logic testing on your LSAT. 

Offline Camel

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2008, 08:54:04 PM »
In my case, they're suggestions or commands.

"You need to clean the dishes, vacuum the floor, and mow the lawn."

Nobody says "you need to clean the dishes, to vacuum the floor, and to mow the lawn."

In writing, you should! The spoken word often breaks rules that you should otherwise follow.

[edit] Also, that sentence is bad, as the semicolon breaks the link to need.

[edit2] "to need" is not the infinitive form in edit1, where as "to clean" is the infinitive form in your sentence.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 08:55:36 PM by Camel »

<Camel> i said what what
<Blaze> in the butt
<Camel> you want to do it in my butt?
<Blaze> in my butt
<Camel> let's do it in the butt
<Blaze> Okay!

Offline Newby

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2008, 08:55:25 PM »
I write like I speak. It works out pretty well, usually; I never got anything less than an A+ on non-book-based writing assignments.

But yeah, "to" should, in theory, go before each of the verbs. :P
- Newby
http://www.x86labs.org

Quote
[17:32:45] * xar sets mode: -oooooooooo algorithm ban chris cipher newby stdio TehUser tnarongi|away vursed warz
[17:32:54] * xar sets mode: +o newby
[17:32:58] <xar> new rule
[17:33:02] <xar> me and newby rule all

I'd bet that you're currently bloated like a water ballon on a hot summer's day.

That analogy doesn't even make sense.  Why would a water balloon be especially bloated on a hot summer's day? For your sake, I hope there wasn't too much logic testing on your LSAT. 

Offline Newby

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2008, 08:58:31 PM »
[edit] Also, that sentence is bad, as the semicolon breaks the link to need.

[edit2] "to need" is not the infinitive form in edit1, where as "to clean" is the infinitive form in your sentence.

??? Where is a semicolon?
- Newby
http://www.x86labs.org

Quote
[17:32:45] * xar sets mode: -oooooooooo algorithm ban chris cipher newby stdio TehUser tnarongi|away vursed warz
[17:32:54] * xar sets mode: +o newby
[17:32:58] <xar> new rule
[17:33:02] <xar> me and newby rule all

I'd bet that you're currently bloated like a water ballon on a hot summer's day.

That analogy doesn't even make sense.  Why would a water balloon be especially bloated on a hot summer's day? For your sake, I hope there wasn't too much logic testing on your LSAT. 

Offline Camel

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2008, 08:59:11 PM »
I write like I speak. It works out pretty well, usually; I never got anything less than an A+ on non-book-based writing assignments.

But yeah, "to" should, in theory, go before each of the verbs. :P

Actually, you write as you speak! ;)

Only in the infinitive forms. That is, when the verb is not the action that the subject is taking.

<Camel> i said what what
<Blaze> in the butt
<Camel> you want to do it in my butt?
<Blaze> in my butt
<Camel> let's do it in the butt
<Blaze> Okay!

Offline Newby

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2008, 08:59:56 PM »
Only in the infinitive forms. That is, when the verb is not the action that the subject is taking.

It was implied that I was talking about the infinitive form of the verbs. At least, I knew I was talking about them. :P
- Newby
http://www.x86labs.org

Quote
[17:32:45] * xar sets mode: -oooooooooo algorithm ban chris cipher newby stdio TehUser tnarongi|away vursed warz
[17:32:54] * xar sets mode: +o newby
[17:32:58] <xar> new rule
[17:33:02] <xar> me and newby rule all

I'd bet that you're currently bloated like a water ballon on a hot summer's day.

That analogy doesn't even make sense.  Why would a water balloon be especially bloated on a hot summer's day? For your sake, I hope there wasn't too much logic testing on your LSAT. 

Offline Camel

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2008, 09:04:02 PM »
??? Where is a semicolon?

You'll never believe this, but there's actually a spec of dust on my laptop screen that lines up perfectly with the first comma in this sentence to form a semicolon:
Nobody says "you need to clean the dishes, to vacuum the floor, and to mow the lawn."

<Camel> i said what what
<Blaze> in the butt
<Camel> you want to do it in my butt?
<Blaze> in my butt
<Camel> let's do it in the butt
<Blaze> Okay!

Offline Ender

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2008, 09:46:10 PM »
├───[linux users]
    ├───[need to]:
        ├───give up the animosity
        ├───[AND]
        ├───save their hatred

How's that?
Bad, it doesn't work like that. "give" and "save" are both verbs, which need to be preceded by "to".


Nah, the jury's out on this one. I think most authorities are leaning towards allowing the split infinitive, if used properly, since it can often eliminate confusion in sentences.

Your sentence, "Linux users need to give up the animosity and save their hatred" is okay grammar IMO. Grammar should and tends to have a logical basis, not a pedantic one, and if the reader doesn't have to expend any more energy on understanding the sentence then it should be fine.

Offline rabbit

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2008, 10:48:31 PM »
I write like I speak. It works out pretty well, usually; I never got anything less than an A+ on non-book-based writing assignments.

But yeah, "to" should, in theory, go before each of the verbs. :P

Actually, you write as you speak! ;)

Only in the infinitive forms. That is, when the verb is not the action that the subject is taking.
Like works well in that situation, since he probably doesn't type exactly the same as he talks (I know I don't).

Offline Hitmen

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2008, 12:13:21 AM »
wtf is all this english shit dont we have an off topic forum
Quote
(22:15:39) Newby: it hurts to swallow

Offline Ender

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2008, 01:10:56 AM »
wtf is all this english shit dont we have an off topic forum

Stop being a troll.

Offline Camel

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2008, 03:05:56 AM »
Nah, the jury's out on this one. I think most authorities are leaning towards allowing the split infinitive, if used properly, since it can often eliminate confusion in sentences.

Your sentence, "Linux users need to give up the animosity and save their hatred" is okay grammar IMO. Grammar should and tends to have a logical basis, not a pedantic one, and if the reader doesn't have to expend any more energy on understanding the sentence then it should be fine.

It's not a split infinitive; that was a joke that isn't all that funny anyways, but won't make any sense unless you actually know what a split infinitive is. "To boldly go where no one has gone before" is an example where the word 'boldly' splits the infinitve 'to go;' it's done exclusively for emphasis.

I tend to agree that grammar is focused on logic, but this is not purely academic. The reader for which Grammar is designed is the most naive fluent reader. In the above example, the split infinitive is poor grammar because it will trick a naive reader in to thinking the verb is 'to bodly;' an irrecoverable mistake. It's important to follow the rules when you're writing, because it's not a trivial operation for the reader to say "what did you mean by that?"

Grammatically, iago's sentence makes no sense without the second 'to,' as it changes the tense of the second phrase, after a rather confusing shuffle. To a native speaker, it's intuitively obvious what the intention was. Someone who is not a native speaker, even if they are fluent, is apt to read the sentence literally and become confused.

I write like I speak.
Actually, you write as you speak! ;)
Like works well in that situation, since he probably doesn't type exactly the same as he talks (I know I don't).

Wrong. It's a simile. You can't put the word like there; its grammatically invalid.

<Camel> i said what what
<Blaze> in the butt
<Camel> you want to do it in my butt?
<Blaze> in my butt
<Camel> let's do it in the butt
<Blaze> Okay!

Offline Ender

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Re: NocturnalLogic
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2008, 03:39:56 AM »
Linux users need to give up the animosity and save their hatred

The emboldened words split "save" from "to", hence split infinitive. (Though you may more generally be addressing parallel construction.)

Analogously, do you think people should write, "I will go outside and I will play basketball" versus "I will go outside and play basketball"? The former sentence has a slightly different meaning, after all.