Author Topic: 3d Tracking  (Read 13444 times)

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Offline Hdx

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3d Tracking
« on: October 22, 2008, 01:14:54 pm »
I am trying to figure out a way to track an object in a room.
This is a real life object in a real life room.
I have a few ideas I jsut thought of, and need input on.
1) IR Radar
Have 4~ IR Radar devices attached to the object {alright, person}. Have them constantly snagging data about the objects it's close to, preferably the walls. Few downfalls, battery usage will be ungodly immense. Object distortion. If a object gets in the way it could throw everything to fuck. Would require a detailed layout of the room. Wha5t happens if the IR beam hits the wall/object at an angle?

2) Stationary base receivers.
This is pretty much the same thing as the above, but instead of having the receiver on the object it will be in stationary receivers located around the room, using the same principals of GPS systems, except in reverse. Still a lot of battery usage as it is still broadcasting the signal, and there is an issue of things getting in the way again.

3) Stationary base receivers utilizing WiFi
The rig will already be WiFi enabled, it's a requirement for a different part of the system. Is there any way we can use the WiFi signal like the IR from above. Having stationary, know, receivers use the wifi signal for there timings? This has the benefit of saving battery {as its using a system that is already being used} and the ability to go through objects/walls.

I am mainly looking for intelligent ideas. Constructive criticism, etc.. Basically i'm trying to get a (X, Y, Z) point for an object, and if at all possible a heading. But i'm pretty sure that'll be simple using a different device.
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Offline iago

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 03:06:55 pm »
Well, two ways that come to mind immediately (keeping mind that I didn't really read your ideas, so this will probably overlap)
1) Echolocation, or something similar -- the object/person is equipped with a directional beacon. But that won't get you a x, y, z very easily, especially if they turn, it's more useful for unknown navigation (that is, not running into a wall)
2) Triangulation -- have three separate units that can tell the distance to the object/person (either by radio, sound, throwing ping pong balls, or whatever). The farther apart the better. Based on the ping time from each base to the object, you can get the distance. Conceptually draw three spheres, and where all three come closest to meeting is where the object is. You'll need to know the x/y/z of each of the sensors, but not of the object itself. You also don't have to know what the shape of the room is, although this will break if the person goes behind a wall, or if the sensors bounce off walls

Have you considered GPS? It'll give you the x/y of an object within a meter (through triangulation, as it turns out), but you won't get a great z I don't think.

Offline Hdx

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 04:41:40 pm »
Well, two ways that come to mind immediately (keeping mind that I didn't really read your ideas, so this will probably overlap)
1) Echolocation, or something similar -- the object/person is equipped with a directional beacon. But that won't get you a x, y, z very easily, especially if they turn, it's more useful for unknown navigation (that is, not running into a wall)
2) Triangulation -- have three separate units that can tell the distance to the object/person (either by radio, sound, throwing ping pong balls, or whatever). The farther apart the better. Based on the ping time from each base to the object, you can get the distance. Conceptually draw three spheres, and where all three come closest to meeting is where the object is. You'll need to know the x/y/z of each of the sensors, but not of the object itself. You also don't have to know what the shape of the room is, although this will break if the person goes behind a wall, or if the sensors bounce off walls

Have you considered GPS? It'll give you the x/y of an object within a meter (through triangulation, as it turns out), but you won't get a great z I don't think.

Your #1 was pretty much my #1
And your #2 was my 2 & 3. I have looked into GPS, but that doesn't work indoors.
I think my best bet would be Triangulation, using 4 nodes, so I can get a Z axis. But, I would need to solve the Walls/object interference.
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Offline iago

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 06:10:42 pm »
If you give more information as to the nature of the problem, we might be able to help more.

Offline Hdx

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 06:17:45 pm »
Eah theirs not really much to say that I haven't said. I need a way of getting a persons X, Y, and Z in a structure where standard GPSs won't work. AE: Anywhere the sky is not visible. If I could find a light, or radio wave, that goes through walls without loosing momentum, [or loosing so little that it has a vary minor effect on the accuracy] I could simply setup the 4 receivers.
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Offline iago

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 08:43:45 pm »
Well, higher wavelength/lower frequency waves can get through walls fairly unimpeded, but then you run into the legal question -- you can only use certain EM wavelengths. Although owning a frequency sounds kind of insane, it happens.

The solution is probably to use something with a high enough wavelength that it doesn't go through walls (I suggest the 380 - 750nm range), then put sensors in every room. I think that's the most common way of doing it, and the way that probably won't cause cancer (I'm not going anywhere near your house if I find out you have x-rays in every room :P).

Offline Hdx

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 09:15:21 pm »
Humm, damn people owning frequencies -.-
What i'll probably end up doing is writing the initial implementation using IR because my room is perfectly square save for the slight abnormalities of the door/closet door. Once I get that working, it should be no problem to modify it to work with some other form of wave.
I am at work and dont feel like doing math. Knowing the X, Y, Z of 4 points is enough to determine the X,Y,Z of a unknown based on time between echos right?
AE: If I were to be int he EXACT middle of the room, and the receivers were to be in the corners, and the room is perfectly cubed. All delays are == right?
Humm, how would the initial receiver, the first one to get the signal, know how much of a delay it has?
Ugh im thinking about this wrong. I think it should be obvious.. but I am missing it.
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Offline iago

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 09:18:09 pm »
Humm, damn people owning frequencies -.-
What i'll probably end up doing is writing the initial implementation using IR because my room is perfectly square save for the slight abnormalities of the door/closet door. Once I get that working, it should be no problem to modify it to work with some other form of wave.
I am at work and dont feel like doing math. Knowing the X, Y, Z of 4 points is enough to determine the X,Y,Z of a unknown based on time between echos right?
Three should be enough, 4 should be a bonus.

AE: If I were to be int he EXACT middle of the room, and the receivers were to be in the corners, and the room is perfectly cubed. All delays are == right?
Keeping in mind that you aren't perfectly spherical, it won't be perfect, but it should be close.

Humm, how would the initial receiver, the first one to get the signal, know how much of a delay it has?
Ugh im thinking about this wrong. I think it should be obvious.. but I am missing it.
It's basically a ping, the amount of time from when it sends its signal to when it receives its signal. Remember that it has to recognize its own, so the others don't interfere.

Keep in mind that we're talking about a ridiculously small timeframe here -- if your room is 10 meters, then:
(10 meters) / the speed of light = 33.3564095 nanoseconds

So you need an extremely sensitive timer.

Sound waves (ultrasonic, for preference) might work better:

(10 meters) / speed of sound at sea level = 29.3866996 milliseconds
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 09:19:51 pm by iago »

Offline Hdx

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 09:22:53 pm »
Assume i'm sphyrical.
Well, what i'm figuring is having the emitter on the person, and the receiver simply listening for the broadcast. I *could* transmit the timestamps in the IR light, but, there is no guarantee that both, let alone all 5, things have the exact same time. If there was only a way to get around that it would be simple. Well, I can guarantee that the receivers have the same time, as they could easily be 1 unit. And don't you need a 4th to figure Z?
Oh, ya you're right, Light is ridiculously fast, to fast for any accurate timer at this low of a distance. God damnit, now I have to find a place that will allow me to play with sound emitters/receivers. AND figure out a way to send data over sound.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 09:25:48 pm by HdxBmx27 »
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Offline iago

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 09:28:46 pm »
Well, ultrasound is inaudible, so you might be ok playing with that if you can get the technology.

I'm pretty sure you only need 3, even in 3 dimensions, but i'm bad at visualizing 3d so you might be right.

The easiest way is probably echolocation. Although in retrospect, you're going to end up with a lot of noise reflecting. Perhaps you can detect body heat? Or wear a sensor that'll reflect the signal properly? I don't know. :/


Offline Sidoh

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 09:30:22 pm »
Assume i'm sphyrical.
Well, what i'm figuring is having the emitter on the person, and the receiver simply listening for the broadcast. I *could* transmit the timestamps in the IR light, but, there is no guarantee that both, let alone all 5, things have the exact same time. If there was only a way to get around that it would be simple. Well, I can guarantee that the receivers have the same time, as they could easily be 1 unit. And don't you need a 4th to figure Z?

If you're dealing with electromagnetic radiation (e.g., IR), you need to use the same watch for everything.  As iago pointed out, you're dealing with something that's measured in nanoseconds.  You'll definitely want to have some pretty specific equipment in order to pull this off.

Another one that requires a lot more on the software side, but also necessitates less equipment: do object recognition with multiple cameras and do the same triangulation thing through perceived size.

I'm unsure if there's freely available software that does this, but it might be a fun project.  There's a group here that deals with biomimetic vision (programs that "see" by mimicking the mechanisms by which humans see).  Their system does autonomous machine learning, which is pretty neat.  I haven't worked on it in a few years, but I'm fairly confident it would be able to do at least a portion of this with a reasonable success rate.

Well, ultrasound is inaudible, so you might be ok playing with that if you can get the technology.

I'm pretty sure you only need 3, even in 3 dimensions, but i'm bad at visualizing 3d so you might be right.

The easiest way is probably echolocation. Although in retrospect, you're going to end up with a lot of noise reflecting. Perhaps you can detect body heat? Or wear a sensor that'll reflect the signal properly? I don't know. :/

It's definitely possible with 3, but I'm not sure about that in general.  There's the obvious case where each sensor reads one coordinate.

Offline Hdx

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 10:25:59 pm »
I was thinking about that. I will be writing a 2d point tracking system for another part of this project, I was thinking I could incorporate that into the 3d one as well. To make things easier, I'm sure there are cameras out there that will only pickup certain types of light. I'll have to look into it more when i get home.
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Offline Chavo

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2008, 01:10:59 am »
Disclaimer: I apologize for not having read this entire thread before posting.

Is there a particular reason you are trying to use IR or WiFi?  RF would be the preferred technology for this application (low power, easy to implement, transmitters/receivers are cheap, low interference issues).

Offline Hdx

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2008, 11:42:35 am »
Well the reason I was going with IR is simply because I am also working with IR in another project. So I have a shitload of transmitters/receivers, But RF you say.  Hows RF work? Can you give me some links. Does it pass through objects/walls. If so how much degradation does it receive? I ment to do more research last night, but I passed out after about 15 mins of playing Guild wars :X
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Offline Chavo

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2008, 12:39:00 pm »
RF stands for Radio Frequency, so yes it passes through walls :)

I don't have any degradation numbers offhand, but they should be easy to find.  I'm sure it depends on the frequency and may or may not be linearly related to the transmit power.  If your application is primarily triangulation, you will probably want to use a higher frequency that will degrade faster in order to be able to measure degradation as a value for distance.  Alternatively, you could use an analog signal and an A/D converter (found on most common microcontrollers) to pass some interpretable values (maybe a timestamp? that may have issues with refracted signals though).

I'm at work and don't have time to hunt down any links, but if you need help finding RF projects (there are tooooons), I can help you find some good examples.  Hack-a-day will definitely have some interesting examples if you search their site for RF.

Offline warz

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2008, 01:22:11 pm »
im just going to throw this out there and maybe guess that you don't have the equipment, or knowledge of creating the equipment that you'll need for this. maybe you could find something that already exists and is similar to what you're trying to do, and modify its hardware / software to your liking? just to see how this kind of stuff works and then go from there.
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Offline Hdx

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2008, 01:53:32 pm »
I've done work with Sonar/IR before, But no I have never developed something like this before. Which is why i've asked here for ideas. I would like to get my own implementation of it working before I go look at someone elses solution. No I don't have the specific equipment i'd need right now. Except for if I did it using IR. But meh. Its all in the planning/thinking stage right now. Once I get a solid idea backedup with a bit of research i'll get to work on the physical thing.

I'll look more into RF once my boss has left the building. Looks promising sofar except for the refractions.
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Offline Camel

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2008, 02:04:45 pm »
I just sort of skimmed the article, so sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said, but here's my $0.02:

It depends on whether you want accuracy or going through walls more; if you want to go through walls, you're locked to RF (and relatively high power - so you'd have to use the 2GHz band, which would probably demolish any 802.11 networks in the area), but your accuracy will severely suffer. I also sincerely doubt that you have sufficient background to attempt such a thing yet; I've been in the wireless industry for two years, and I still only understand the basic principles involved.

I don't think radio is plausible for your situation; but one exception would be to re-use an existing TPS solution. Beware though, they (cdmaOne, 802.11n, etc) are all inaccurate, since they are based on a system where light moves really fast, and reference points are really close. The accuracy of GPS is critically dependent on the fact that GPS satellites are far away.

What it really comes down to is how important accuracy is to you. If you just want to tell what room someone's in, you can get away with an 802.11n system -- and you don't even need sensors on peoples bodies; you can "see" a human in the 2GHz band; there are some intrusion detection systems in development that can run on any WRT-based 802.11n router.

If, however, you need to know accurately where in the room a person is, I think you should just use sound; it's probably your only hope if accuracy is desirable. As iago hinted earlier, there's six orders of magnitude difference between the speed of light and sound, so your prorogation delay will also be six orders of magnitude larger than that of an RF-based system, but it also means that your reference points can be six orders of magnitude closer for the same accuracy.

Have you determined how to locate your reference points? If you build a sensor in to each of the transmitters, you can build an ad-hock relative positioning system, where one sensor is simply defined as the origin, and another as the master reference, and all the other points are given with position relative to the positions defined by the first two.

I'm pretty sure you only need 3, even in 3 dimensions, but i'm bad at visualizing 3d so you might be right.
You need not visualize 3d, just understand that each reference point knocks out one dimension (though the reference frame is not fixed). When you get down to 1 dimension, you still need two reference points - and that should be easy to visualize.

If you have an equal number of reference points as dimensions, there can be two points at which the object could be. In the case of 3d, think of a plane defined by the 3 reference points, and mirror the point across that plane.

RF would be the preferred technology for this application (low power, easy to implement, transmitters/receivers are cheap, low interference issues).
Interference in 2GHz is not low; the thing about WiFi is that the AP doesn't really have to know where you are accurately, just where it looks like you are from its perspective.

Even with 4 reference points, you're going to have dead zones, distortion, and interference. However, with enough redundancy, you should be able to almost disregard those problems. You may have to fill every channel in every room.

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Offline warz

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2008, 03:10:29 pm »
I still think everyones jumping the gun, here. This is the type of project that could possibly require the creation of your own devices, I'd think. I have no experience in this, but it's just what I would assume. You're not going to get very far trying to write up an implementation without knowing what hardware you're using. You won't be able to start writing anything until you know those specifics. In these projects the physical things typically come before the computer manipulation of them.

That's why I suggested possibly finding something you can toy around with before spending the larger amount of money on the parts to build one tailored to your needs. (or having it built for you)

edit: discussing what types of hardware, or "waves" to use, or whatever, though is helpful. I just read Camels post and it sounds knowledgeable.
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Offline Chavo

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2008, 04:01:33 pm »
Why the hell would you want to use a 2Ghz RF Frequency?  The 80Mhz band range is considerably more appropriate for this project.  The only reason you think it would be too complex for him is because the world of computer/mobile/etc wireless technology is considerably more complex than simple short range wireless communication between simple devices.  Communicating a simple RF signal is as simple as building a digital signal generator (like a simple program on a microcontroller, generating an analog RF signal (transmitter) and using a receiver to convert it back to a digital signal that another microcontroller can understand.  There isn't a protocol that he needs to learn or a library to implement or a set of security steps he has to follow or any other standards other than staying within the right frequency bands that the FCC has allocated for hobbyist projects.

Offline Camel

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2008, 04:29:11 pm »
Why the hell would you want to use a 2Ghz RF Frequency?  The 80Mhz band range is considerably more appropriate for this project.  The only reason you think it would be too complex for him is because the world of computer/mobile/etc wireless technology is considerably more complex than simple short range wireless communication between simple devices.  Communicating a simple RF signal is as simple as building a digital signal generator (like a simple program on a microcontroller, generating an analog RF signal (transmitter) and using a receiver to convert it back to a digital signal that another microcontroller can understand.  There isn't a protocol that he needs to learn or a library to implement or a set of security steps he has to follow or any other standards other than staying within the right frequency bands that the FCC has allocated for hobbyist projects.

You would want to use 2GHz because the hardware and software already exists for it, and the price is justified when you consider the work involved to create such a device.

Also, if you try to detect humans at 80MHz, you'd be committing patent claim infringement. Using the 2GHz band does not require taking the patented approach.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 04:32:20 pm by Camel »

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Offline iago

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2008, 10:09:49 pm »
Also, if you try to detect humans at 80MHz, you'd be committing patent claim infringement. Using the 2GHz band does not require taking the patented approach.
From a quick look at that patent's summary, it's regarding detecting the *presence* of humans using frequency bands that humans absorb, and placing a transmitter/receiver across from each other to see if a human passes beteween them, not detecting the *coordinates* of humans.

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2008, 10:37:27 pm »
Why the hell would you want to use a 2Ghz RF Frequency?  The 80Mhz band range is considerably more appropriate for this project.  The only reason you think it would be too complex for him is because the world of computer/mobile/etc wireless technology is considerably more complex than simple short range wireless communication between simple devices.  Communicating a simple RF signal is as simple as building a digital signal generator (like a simple program on a microcontroller, generating an analog RF signal (transmitter) and using a receiver to convert it back to a digital signal that another microcontroller can understand.  There isn't a protocol that he needs to learn or a library to implement or a set of security steps he has to follow or any other standards other than staying within the right frequency bands that the FCC has allocated for hobbyist projects.

You would want to use 2GHz because the hardware and software already exists for it, and the price is justified when you consider the work involved to create such a device.

Also, if you try to detect humans at 80MHz, you'd be committing patent claim infringement. Using the 2GHz band does not require taking the patented approach.
The hardware exists for ANY reasonable RF project and the software requirement is negligible.  The 80Mhz band was not meant to be taken literally.

Offline Camel

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2008, 01:14:47 pm »
From a quick look at that patent's summary, it's regarding detecting the *presence* of humans using frequency bands that humans absorb, and placing a transmitter/receiver across from each other to see if a human passes beteween them, not detecting the *coordinates* of humans.
It's much more specific than that - the patent covers detecting presence on the line path between a transmitter and a receiver, which is the only way to detect humans in that band. With the 2GHz band, you can "target" specific locations, which is the fundamental principle that 802.11n relies on in order to work at high speed for multiple clients simultaneously. It requires having 3 antennas, though the optimal positioning of the antennas is debatable.

The hardware exists for ANY reasonable RF project and the software requirement is negligible.  The 80Mhz band was not meant to be taken literally.
RF-based systems are not ideal - signals bounce, skip, and get absorbed. This is not like building a voice radio where you just tweak the position of the antenna until you have a reliable transmission; radiolocation is complicated.

This is why I suggested an 802.11n router as a starting point; 90% of the work is already done, and plenty of 802.11n routers out there have open-source, linux-based operating systems. DD-WRT even has a nice built in 3d radiolocator. Modifying it to search for bodies instead of WiFi clients would be much less work than starting from scratch.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 01:18:23 pm by Camel »

<Camel> i said what what
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Offline iago

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2008, 02:02:50 pm »
It's much more specific than that - the patent covers detecting presence on the line path between a transmitter and a receiver, which is the only way to detect humans in that band. With the 2GHz band, you can "target" specific locations, which is the fundamental principle that 802.11n relies on in order to work at high speed for multiple clients simultaneously. It requires having 3 antennas, though the optimal positioning of the antennas is debatable.
Then there you go -- it's not the same as what hdx is doing.

Offline Chavo

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2008, 02:40:04 pm »
You (Camel) are trying to make this way more complicated than it needs to be.  Using an RF signal to transmit data is not a complicated task.  Determining how to do so to achieve a goal while keeping in mind the limits of RF (such as signal refraction, which I already pointed out) is not something so difficult to manage that you need to drastically jump your hardware requirements to support WiFi and use a complex software solution that is designed for much more complex purposes.  I know you work in the wireless industry and it's not surprising that you would approach this task from that angle. I can't stress enough to you how unnecessary this is.

He's trying to locate an object in a room that he can place his own receivers in.  He's not trying to reinvent GPS.

edit: Hilariously enough, there's already a patent for almost exactly the approach I'm suggesting:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7019663.html

Offline Camel

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2008, 03:47:20 pm »
He's trying to locate an object in a room that he can place his own receivers in.  He's not trying to reinvent GPS.

How does that change the game at all? Radiolocation is not as simple as timing how long the signal takes to get there and triangulating.

I never said that it's necessary to make the system as complex as an access point, but I am saying that any old 802.11n router already has this problem in the bag, and that makes it an excellent starting point. Since some of these are open-source, looking at how they are implemented would be a great way to learn how it's done. I don't see why you're taking issue with that.

<Camel> i said what what
<Blaze> in the butt
<Camel> you want to do it in my butt?
<Blaze> in my butt
<Camel> let's do it in the butt
<Blaze> Okay!

Offline Chavo

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2008, 04:07:04 pm »
Radiolocation is not as simple as timing how long the signal takes to get there and triangulating.
Obviously?  Implementing a way to determine distance using RF or any other wireless technology should be his primary challenge and focus for this project.  IR and WiFi do not have an advantage over RF here.

[/quote]I never said that it's necessary to make the system as complex as an access point, but I am saying that any old 802.11n router already has this problem in the bag, and that makes it an excellent starting point. Since some of these are open-source, looking at how they are implemented would be a great way to learn how it's done. I don't see why you're taking issue with that.[/quote]
A 802.11n router is a complicated piece of technology that is not trivial to integrate with compared with designing an microcontroller/RF transceiver pair circuit.  Examining an open source 802.11n project may be valuable for theory or to help find a solution, but integrating or modifying such a project would not be simple compared to writing a program to manage a A/D converter that receives an RF signal (perhaps utilizing SCI).

Offline Camel

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2008, 04:23:28 pm »
Is the system going to be embedded everywhere? If not, how will it communicate, and with what?

<Camel> i said what what
<Blaze> in the butt
<Camel> you want to do it in my butt?
<Blaze> in my butt
<Camel> let's do it in the butt
<Blaze> Okay!

Offline zorm

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2008, 06:19:28 pm »
My suggestion is to forget trying to do echo location, you're going to need fancy hardware and stuff for that apparently.

It might be much easier to have 4 transmitters at fixed points that transmit continuously, and then put 2 directional antennas on the person of interest. Find a way to move the antennas so that they move to a location of maximum signal and triangulate your position based on that.

Alternatively, if you're assuming that the object won't be suddenly dropped into your room you can use more traditional methods for tracking your position in the room. Much more simple and easy to implement I believe.
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Offline zorm

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2008, 06:25:22 pm »
I should also add that if you do want to try something like echo location from timing, you'd be much much better off with a single fixed transmitter instead of like 4 or something. Atleast to start with anyways, this would greatly reduce the complexity of your system!
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Offline Chavo

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2008, 11:57:12 am »
Is the system going to be embedded everywhere? If not, how will it communicate, and with what?
The project's goal, as far as I understand, is not to be a portable solution.  The goal is to locate an object of interest in a room.  Like I said before, he isn't trying to reinvent GPS.

Offline Camel

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Re: 3d Tracking
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2008, 02:00:37 pm »
My suggestion is to forget trying to do echo location, you're going to need fancy hardware and stuff for that apparently.

Speakers and microphones for a project like this need not be terribly fancy - fidelity is completely irrelevant for the speaker (you can harvest the speakers of old computers/cars from a grave/junkyard), and sufficient microphones are not expensive.

Radio- and echo-location are two totally distinct approaches, so it's tough to say which would be easier. It certainly does seem that more people have attempted radio-location recently, though.

<Camel> i said what what
<Blaze> in the butt
<Camel> you want to do it in my butt?
<Blaze> in my butt
<Camel> let's do it in the butt
<Blaze> Okay!